Would Ireland follow Europe's Lead in Aborting the Huge Majority of Down Syndrome Pos

evil_seed · 09-11-2017 05:30PM

They're killing innocent children????
Oh wait... no... abortions.
And Genocide? You mean Eurythmics... I mean eugenics

....... · 09-11-2017 05:33PM

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MrPudding · 09-11-2017 05:33PM

....... wrote: »

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My favourite toothpaste.

MrP

end of the road · 09-11-2017 05:34PM

MrPudding wrote: »

I would probably be considered to be a left wing liberal and I disagree with baby murder, though I am not sure what that has to do with this thread, as it is not talking about baby murder.

MrP

i disagree, that's exactly what it is talking about. innocent unborn children being killed just for being disabled. there is no justification for it and we must insure it does not happen in ireland.

....... · 09-11-2017 05:34PM

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....... · 09-11-2017 05:35PM

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topper75 · 09-11-2017 05:36PM

optogirl wrote: »

The arrogance to think that your morality should be enforced on everybody.

Though you may think it quaint, in a swirling world of debate with relative-this and grey-that, I am quite happy to settle on 'killing people is wrong' as a pole star.

CerebralCortex · 09-11-2017 05:36PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

People with DS are human beings like everyone else and deserve to have a chance at life and many can live a perfectly normal and loving life. It's just murder. Just say you don't want down syndrome people in the world and be done with it, at least it's an intellectually honest argument.

I don't want any more phenotypes afflicted with DS to develop, honestly.

The Legend Of Kira · 09-11-2017 05:37PM

Frank Stephens gave this speech recently about screening for down syndrome & abortion of babies with down syndrome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQJEoRhkapw

SusieBlue · 09-11-2017 05:37PM

I'm going to repeat what I said earlier because I think its very relevant.

A lot of people who are anti-abortion under any circumstances, have no interest in what happens to these babies when they're born.

Instead of judging these women/couples who make the heartbreaking decision to terminate, why aren't they helping the disadvantaged children in their community? Volunteering to look after disabled children so their parents can get some respite?
Offering donations to stressed, over worked parents who are financially broke and struggling making it to the end of the month? Campaigning to TDs for more social housing for all the families on social welfare who can't afford their own homes?
Foster a few children to take some pressure off the system?

Oh wait. They don't. Because they don't care. But no one is allowed any abortions no matter what, lest we forget.

....... · 09-11-2017 05:39PM

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CerebralCortex · 09-11-2017 05:39PM

topper75 wrote: »

Though you may think it quaint, in a swirling world of debate with relative-this and grey-that, I am quite happy to settle on 'killing people is wrong' as a pole star.

You haven't heard of this then

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOpf6KcWYyw

wakka12 · 09-11-2017 05:39PM

Cringed at the title
I can fully understand and respect why somebody would abort a down syndrome pregnancy, as it will take over your life, youll spend your entire life worrying about them, and they will never be independent , and some peopel arent prepared to change their lives for that, and I have massive respect for people who do raise down syndrome children.

As for me, I dont know what Id do. I havnt made up my mind, I hope I dont have to make that very difficult decision ever in my life

January · 09-11-2017 05:40PM

end of the road wrote: »

i disagree, that's exactly what it is talking about. innocent unborn children being killed just for being disabled. there is no justification for it and we must insure it does not happen in ireland.

Nope. That's not what we're talking about.

It already happens btw, we just export the problem. NIBYism at it's finest.

end of the road · 09-11-2017 05:41PM

WhiteRoses wrote: »

I'm going to repeat what I said earlier because I think its very relevant.

A lot of people who are anti-abortion under any circumstances, have no interest in what happens to these babies when they're born.

Instead of judging these women/couples who make the heartbreaking decision to terminate, why aren't they helping the disadvantaged children in their community? Volunteering to look after disabled children so their parents can get some respite?
Offering donations to stressed, over worked parents who are financially broke and struggling making it to the end of the month? Campaigning to TDs for more social housing for all the families on social welfare who can't afford their own homes?
Foster a few children to take some pressure off the system?

Oh wait. They don't. Because they don't care. But no one is allowed any abortions no matter what, lest we forget.

you can have an abortion, hop on the boat to the uk. nobody is stopping you from doing that.

wakka12 · 09-11-2017 05:41PM

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

Frank Stephens gave this speech recently about screening for down syndrome & abortion of babies with down syndrome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQJEoRhkapw

The speech is quite moving but a little ignorant too. I dont think hes recognising how hard it is for the parents of a down syndrome child, at all

end of the road · 09-11-2017 05:43PM

January wrote: »

Nope. That's not what we're talking about.

It already happens btw, we just export the problem. NIBYism at it's finest.

we correctly can't stop people from traveling, so if someone wants an abortion they can do it in the uk. the uk is easier in many ways to get to then parts of this country

Lux23 · 09-11-2017 05:45PM

I have a brother with special needs, I love him to bits but I don't think I could raise a child like him so I don't blame people for making this choice. I would probably make the same choice myself.

January · 09-11-2017 05:45PM

end of the road wrote: »

we correctly can't stop people from traveling, so if someone wants an abortion they can do it in the uk. the uk is easier in many ways to get to then parts of this country

We can stop people from travelling and we do, we stop people who cannot afford to travel, we stop people who cannot travel (because they are refugee's or can't get the right visa to get into the UK).

If you really wanted people to not have abortions you'd be campaigning to have the right to travel revoked. But you don't care about people having abortions, you care about people not having abortions here. You're a hypocrite.

kylith · 09-11-2017 05:45PM

end of the road wrote: »

i disagree, that's exactly what it is talking about. innocent unborn children being killed just for being disabled. there is no justification for it and we must insure it does not happen in ireland.

Why?

Why should someone who knows they can't cope with a disabled child be forced to have one?

Jayop · 09-11-2017 05:46PM

end of the road wrote: »

you can have an abortion, hop on the boat to the uk. nobody is stopping you from doing that.

If you don't have a visa to enter England border patrol will stop you.
If you don't have a passport the airport security will stop you.
If you don't have money for a flight the airline will stop you.

I suppose the person could find out they're pregnant, apply for a passport, wait another 12 weeks, book a flight and then maybe have the abortion at 26+ weeks. For some reason that seems to be preferable for pro-life people than allowing woman to have a safe medical abortion at -12 weeks in Ireland.

Strange attitude.

SusieBlue · 09-11-2017 05:47PM

end of the road wrote: »

you can have an abortion, hop on the boat to the uk. nobody is stopping you from doing that.

I shouldn't have to leave the country. I should be able to get one in the comfort of familiar surroundings. I have nothing to be ashamed of and should be able to obtain the medical care I feel I need as a legal adult in my own country.

harr · 09-11-2017 05:47PM

WhiteRoses wrote: »

I'm going to repeat what I said earlier because I think its very relevant.

A lot of people who are anti-abortion under any circumstances, have no interest in what happens to these babies when they're born.

Instead of judging these women/couples who make the heartbreaking decision to terminate, why aren't they helping the disadvantaged children in their community? Volunteering to look after disabled children so their parents can get some respite?
Offering donations to stressed, over worked parents who are financially broke and struggling making it to the end of the month? Campaigning to TDs for more social housing for all the families on social welfare who can't afford their own homes?
Foster a few children to take some pressure off the system?

Oh wait. They don't. Because they don't care. But no one is allowed any abortions no matter what, lest we forget.

Very well said...friends of ours who also have a child with DS have no support what so ever from family...the grandmother who thinks she is all high and mighty in social circles and a Staunch catholic and is even a eucharistic minister will not babysit her grandson because he is to hard to handle and messes up her house...yet the very mention of anything against the churches teaching she would jump down your neck..yet she mentions to anyone who listens to her about how her Beautiful grandson is a blessing from god :mad:

January · 09-11-2017 05:48PM

Oh and BTW abortions do happen in this country. Up to 5 a day happen in secret at home, using abortion pills procured from the internet. These women live in fear of someone telling the Garda they have done this and being prosecuted.

Jayop · 09-11-2017 05:50PM

January wrote: »

Oh and BTW abortions do happen in this country. Up to 5 a day happen in secret at home, using abortion pills procured from the internet. These women live in fear of someone telling the Garda they have done this and being prosecutedpersecuted.

FYP

January · 09-11-2017 05:51PM

Jayop wrote: »

FYP

Both.

Jayop · 09-11-2017 05:53PM

January wrote: »

Both.

No doubt!

SusieBlue · 09-11-2017 05:55PM

If you want an abortion, you should be able to have one. If you don't want to have an abortion, you shouldn't have to have one.
No one should be able to dictate what another adult does with their reproductive organs. They aren't the ones left holding the baby so its no ones business apart from the two people the decision actually affects.
That's what it all boils down to. To believe you have a say in how someone else goes about their life implies a level of superiority I can't even begin to understand.

Hooks Golf Handicap · 09-11-2017 05:57PM

....... wrote: »

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I am as far from Iona as you could get.

This thread has gone off track with all the abortion talk, there's another thread for that.
My thread was for the debate around DS & the likelihood of there being DS children in the future.
There's no reason to think we won't chose any differently than our European cousins.

end of the road · 09-11-2017 05:57PM

January wrote: »

we stop people who cannot afford to travel

no we don't. they are unable to afford to travel so therefore cannot travel. if i can't afford to go on a foreign holiday if i wanted to (not that i ever do anyway) does that mean i'm being stopped from traveling? no it simply means i can't afford to travel so i don't travel.

January wrote: »

we stop people who cannot travel (because they are refugee's or can't get the right visa to get into the UK).

that's down to the uk immigration policy. if you don't have the right visa you aren't getting in . why should the uk allow people in illegally just because they want to have an abortion?

Jayop wrote: »

If you don't have a visa to enter England border patrol will stop you.
If you don't have a passport the airport security will stop you.

that's because you are breaking the rules. if you don't have th correct visas or documentation the authorities do have the right to stop you from entry or leaving. that's not stopping you from traveling, it's simply stopping you from traveling against the relevant rules and regulations.

Jayop wrote: »

If you don't have money for a flight the airline will stop you.

yes because they are a service provider, and have no obligation to allow you to use their service for free. that still isn't stopping you from traveling, you just can't travel using a service provider.

WhiteRoses wrote: »

I shouldn't have to leave the country. I should be able to get one in the comfort of familiar surroundings. I have nothing to be ashamed of and should be able to obtain the medical care I feel I need as a legal adult in my own country.

the uk is a hell of a lot easier to get to via public transport then much of the country. and i don't have to pay for your abortion.

Would Ireland follow Europe's Lead in Aborting the Huge Majority of Down Syndrome Pos

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