Halloween

Jellybaby1 · 14-10-2017 12:57am #1

Does your church 'do' Halloween? In the past most of the parishes I have been to have never had anything 'Halloweeny' and always warned against being involved in the creepy side of it. However, some of my church friends don't seem to think there is anything wrong with it. Some churches do their best to do an 'alternative' event to Halloween which I think is a good option. Then I saw this and wondered what do others think. Christian teaching is actually miniscule on the page:

http://www.cm.ireland.anglican.org/halloween-crafts-for-childrens-ministry/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

So, what does your church do at this time of year, if anything?

branie2 · 14-10-2017 2:15am

Not mine

antiskeptic · 14-10-2017 9:19am

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

Does your church 'do' Halloween? In the past most of the parishes I have been to have never had anything 'Halloweeny' and always warned against being involved in the creepy side of it.

Taking the Hell out of Hallo'een in the same way Christ has been taken out of Christmas, I suppose.

smacl · 14-10-2017 10:38am

antiskeptic wrote: »

Taking the Hell out of Hallo'een in the same way Christ has been taken out of Christmas, I suppose.

Is there any hell in Halloween though? I thought that when Christianity, in a typical example of syncreticism, took over Samhain it became a bona fide Christian celebration?

solodeogloria · 14-10-2017 10:41am

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

Does your church 'do' Halloween? In the past most of the parishes I have been to have never had anything 'Halloweeny' and always warned against being involved in the creepy side of it. However, some of my church friends don't seem to think there is anything wrong with it. Some churches do their best to do an 'alternative' event to Halloween which I think is a good option. Then I saw this and wondered what do others think. Christian teaching is actually miniscule on the page:

http://www.cm.ireland.anglican.org/halloween-crafts-for-childrens-ministry/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

So, what does your church do at this time of year, if anything?

Good morning!

Our church runs a light party for the kids, which is an alternative event which involves some of the dressing up part rather than the scary bit.

Our church is going big on the Reformation 500 this year as well. We've got some people from the Bible Society coming in to do a Reformation drama, and we've been going through some of the lives of the English Reformers and what they sacrificed in rediscovering the truths of Scripture and bringing them back to public consciousness in England our kids slot in the morning.

On Halloween / Reformation Day itself, I'll be in Lutherstadt Wittenberg enjoying the Reformationtag festivities! I've been planning that for the last year.

I definitely think Protestants in particular should be making more of the link between this time of year and the Reformation and the rediscovery of Biblical truth in Europe.

Much thanks,
solodeogloria

c_man · 14-10-2017 11:27am

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

So, what does your church do at this time of year, if anything?

Nothing. Never been to one that has tbh.

antiskeptic · 14-10-2017 12:10pm

smacl wrote: »

Is there any hell in Halloween though? I thought that when Christianity, in a typical example of syncreticism, took over Samhain it became a bona fide Christian celebration?

These days the theme appears to be Hellish: Ghouls, blood, skulls and the like. Whatever about the historical attempt at a takeover.

And so, Christians attempting to strip out those elements. Strikes me as a hollowing out of the whole thing. Like current sounding aimed at eliminating potentially harmful contact aspects of school boy rugby, the motivation is good but you're left with a shadow of the former 'glory'

uck51js9zml2yt · 14-10-2017 4:23pm

solodeogloria wrote: »

Good morning!

Our church runs a light party for the kids, which is an alternative event which involves some of the dressing up part rather than the scary bit.

Our church is going big on the Reformation 500 this year as well. We've got some people from the Bible Society coming in to do a Reformation drama, and we've been going through some of the lives of the English Reformers and what they sacrificed in rediscovering the truths of Scripture and bringing them back to public consciousness in England our kids slot in the morning.

On Halloween / Reformation Day itself, I'll be in Lutherstadt Wittenberg enjoying the Reformationtag festivities! I've been planning that for the last year.

I definitely think Protestants in particular should be making more of the link between this time of year and the Reformation and the rediscovery of Biblical truth in Europe.

Much thanks,
solodeogloria

So glad that when I was saved that God didn't make me a Protestant

Jellybaby1 · 14-10-2017 5:00pm

Thanks for all your replies. I suppose I was wondering if I am in a minority and it seems I'm not. It doesn't look like any of your churches actually does Halloween which is of course what I thought. Kids' fancy dress is one thing, and ordinarily is very cute, but I've asked one of my friends to explain to their six year old that the skull on her little black t-shirt is actually what she looks like under her skin, and I was given a very cold stare! I went too far obviously.

Peregrinus · 16-10-2017 2:47am

antiskeptic wrote: »

These days the theme appears to be Hellish: Ghouls, blood, skulls and the like. Whatever about the historical attempt at a takeover.

And so, Christians attempting to strip out those elements. Strikes me as a hollowing out of the whole thing. Like current sounding aimed at eliminating potentially harmful contact aspects of school boy rugby, the motivation is good but you're left with a shadow of the former 'glory'

You're describing themes of death, not hell. The memento mori - an iconographic representation of death - is a pretty strong theme in Christian art and popular devotion, and not just among Catholics. If it is less fashionable today, that may have to do with our modern, materialistic squeamishness about death and decay, rather than any particularly Christian impulse.

LordSutch · 16-10-2017 8:50pm

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

Does your church 'do' Halloween? In the past most of the parishes I have been to have never had anything 'Halloweeny' and always warned against being involved in the creepy side of it. However, some of my church friends don't seem to think there is anything wrong with it. Some churches do their best to do an 'alternative' event to Halloween which I think is a good option. Then I saw this and wondered what do others think. Christian teaching is actually miniscule on the page:

http://www.cm.ireland.anglican.org/halloween-crafts-for-childrens-ministry/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

So, what does your church do at this time of year, if anything?

Halloween in Church :cool:

Surely Halloween is a total anathema to Christianity. I would take issue with the whole concept of mixing a pagan event with Christ.

Would not be allowed in my Church of Ireland Church, that's for sure.

Jellybaby1 · 16-10-2017 8:57pm

LordSutch wrote: »

Halloween in Church :cool:

Surely Halloween is a total anathema to Christianity. I would take issue with the whole concept of mixing a pagan event with Christ.

Would not be allowed in my Church of Ireland Church, that's for sure.

Thank you! Exactly what I was trying to get through to my friends in my very clumsy way. I'm seen as a party pooper and the biggest bore!

Save

Ash.J.Williams · 16-10-2017 9:02pm

Christians should walk all the hilltops of ireland at halloween to beg our pagan ancestors for their forgiveness

looksee · 16-10-2017 9:13pm

All Hallows Eve - or Holy Eve or All Saints' Eve is the Christian part which remembers the dead, including saints and the people who died having lived good lives. Much of the rest of it is probably (but not certainly) related to pagan practises - much the same as Christmas is a mix of Christian and pagan. The spooky stuff has been picked up and commercialised - again, like Christmas and Santa - but Halloween is definitely a Christian holiday (holy day).

LordSutch · 16-10-2017 9:35pm

looksee wrote: »

... but Halloween is definitely a Christian holiday (holy day).

Never remember seeing or attending a Halloween service :cool:

You sure Halloween is a Christian event?

looksee · 16-10-2017 10:19pm

All Saints Day, All Souls Day, All Hallows Eve are the same thing. http://www.catholic.org/saints/allsaints/ sorry about the auto-play voice but I was trying to find a site with Christian or Catholic in the title. My own experience goes back - way back - to my Anglican days when All Saints was the name of the church I attended and All Souls was definitely in the prayer book. Whether or not I attended a service of that name I am not sure.

Nick Park · 16-10-2017 10:24pm

LordSutch wrote: »

Never remember seeing or attending a Halloween service :cool:

You sure Halloween is a Christian event?

Allhallowtide has, for centuries, been a Christian observance. It covers 3 days: All Saints Eve or Hallowed Evening (31 Oct); All Saints Day (1 Nov); and All Souls Day (2 Nov).

These dates originated quite independently of the Celtic festival of Samhain. They originated in Germany and Italy, not Ireland. Indeed, in Ireland Allhallowtide was originally celebrated in April, to avoid confusion with Samhain. However, as the Celtic Church knuckled down to conformity with Roman rites and practices, Ireland fell into line and switched the date to October 31st like everyone else.

Over the years some of the pagan traditions of Samhain became folk traditions that were celebrated at Halloween. Today it probably owes more to American candy manufacturers than anything.

Peregrinus · 17-10-2017 1:15am

What Nick said. There's a bit of a clue in the name "Halloween" - it's the eve of All Hallows (or All Saints) Day. Halloween is to All Saints Day as Christmas Eve is to Christmas Day.

The whole All Saints thing was largely abandoned or repudiated in much of Protestant Christianity because, you know, saints. A bit Romish, no? But LordSutch's Anglican tradition has a particular genius for integrating both Catholic and Protestant traditions, and is entirely comfortable with All Saints (and indeed with All Souls, which is a distinctly un-Lutheran concept).

True, there are no particular church services for Halloween in the Anglican tradition but, then, there are none in the Catholic tradition either. There is more to Christian devotion than church services.

Mrs OBumble · 17-10-2017 8:40am

Ive been to Evensong on All Hallows Eve.

Its was just like Evensong on any other day.

keano_afc · 17-10-2017 12:10pm

Like previously mentioned, we have a light party in our church too.

Personally, we allow our children to dress up but only in "non-scary" costumes. We celebrate the harvest and give God thanks for what He has blessed us with.

uck51js9zml2yt · 17-10-2017 5:21pm

I don't allow my kids "do" Halloween.

solodeogloria · 18-10-2017 9:09am

Julien Mammoth Chrome wrote: »

So glad that when I was saved that God didn't make me a Protestant

Good morning!

You are free to identify as you wish.

I'm personally thankful for the Reformation itself because it put Biblical truth at the centre of the church again. I'm thankful for the Reformation for actively putting the Bible in peoples hands so that they could read it for themselves, and could encounter Jesus for themselves through it.

Even if you don't identify as a Protestant - it is still worth giving thanks to the Reformers who suffered and died at the hands of wicked people for trying to give people the opportunity to hear about Jesus directly for themselves in the words of Scripture. Jesus spoke to me through the Scriptures when I was a teenager and opened my eyes to the truth through His Spirit - that's how I was saved in the first place.

I'm not saying all the Reformers were perfect by any stretch. They weren't. They were broken sinful people who offered the glory to Jesus Christ alone.

Much thanks,
solodeogloria

Jellybaby1 · 19-10-2017 10:08am

Thank you everyone. My question has been well and truly answered by all here so at this stage I shall retire before the touchpaper is lit!

smacl · 19-10-2017 10:57am

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

Thank you everyone. My question has been well and truly answered by all here so at this stage I shall retire before the touchpaper is lit!

Hope yourself and your kids have a great Halloween and don't scoff too much candy! Except for jellybabies that is

eviltwin · 19-10-2017 10:58am

Julien Mammoth Chrome wrote: »

I don't allow my kids "do" Halloween.

Why not?

smacl · 19-10-2017 11:48am

eviltwin wrote: »

Why not?

Was going to ask the same. It seems as much of a cultural holiday for most people at this point as anything religious (or pagan for that matter).

Cabaal · 24-10-2017 8:57pm

Julien Mammoth Chrome wrote: »

I don't allow my kids "do" Halloween.

Your household sounds like fun central

Peregrinus · 25-10-2017 2:32am

smacl wrote: »

Was going to ask the same. It seems as much of a cultural holiday for most people at this point as anything religious (or pagan for that matter).

False dichotomy, there, since religious holidays are, by definition, cultural.

Halloween is basically a harvest festival. It' the end of the harvesting season, the crop is in, the barns are full, time to let the hair down a little and celebrate. Specifically, celebrate by sharing food with people because, hey, we've got plenty. Hence the distribution of fruits and nuts; they're in season.

Harvest festivals are common - possibly universal - in cultures that live in temperate zones with a distinct winter/summer agricultural cycle. And they are frequently invested with religious significance, usually involving thanks for the harvest or prayers for protection from the hardships/dangers of the coming winter or some combination of both. You can see both of those pretty clearly in Irish Halloween traditions.

So, Halloween is as religious as you want it to be.

Some cultures have more than one harvest festival. The Romans had two major ones - Ceralia, to celebrate the grain harvest, and Vinalia, to celebrate the grape harvest. You can guess how Vinalia was celebrated.

smacl · 25-10-2017 7:40am

Peregrinus wrote: »

False dichotomy, there, since religious holidays are, by definition, cultural.

Not really though, as cultural holidays are not necessarily religious and AFAIK most people in this country don't celebrate Halloween as a religious event so much as an opportunity to have a bit of fun. I would guess that if you were to ask a bunch of kids what Halloween was all about they'd be talking trick or treat, dressing up and spooky overtones with very little if any mention of religion. Compare that to Christmas and while you would have talk of Santa and presents I'm guessing there would also be mention of the birth of Jesus.

To my mind Halloween is a classic example of using syncretism as a tool to ease the replacement of an older belief system with Christianity. You have a traditional harvest festival celebration such as samhain which the pre-Christian locals are loathe to give up, so simply have a Christian holiday on the same day and everybody's happy. If this was not the case, why exactly would more severe Christians not allow their kids to 'do' Halloween?

Peregrinus · 25-10-2017 7:45am

Well, as I say, Halloween is as religious as you want it to be. So, it follows, it's also as irreligious as you want it to be. If a "severe Christian" parent is unhappy with aspects of the dominant mode of celebrating Halloween, they can either (a) not celebrate it at all, or (b) celebrate it in a way that emphasises the inherent religious aspects. As to why people choose (a) rather than (b), well, you'd have to ask them.

solodeogloria · 31-10-2017 7:38am

Happy Reformation Day!

There's thousands of people in and around Wittenberg at the moment. There's a street festival today and it was there yesterday too.

Attached a photo of the Schlosskirche on the outside, and during the English language Lutheran service on the inside.

Wonderful to be able to give thanks to God for the work He's done through Luther and the other reformers over the last 500 years!

Much thanks in the Lord Jesus Christ,
solodeogloria

Halloween

Comments