So this Hurricane

The Talking Bread · 17-10-2017 04:59PM

BoatMad wrote: »

no more then the ones out walking the dog along a tree lined avenue ?, or the many selfies taken on beaches

last time I looked there were no trees in the sea all the fatalities were on the land !

Again missing the point here. The self titled "Kite surfing /sea sport experts" are bordering on complaining about people for being worried about their safety in the midst of what was being highlighted by every media source as a seriously dangerous weather event.

Naturally the rescue services would respond to calls from people when they alert them to people out in the middle of the sea. They are obliged to do so.

And, free society or not, common bloody sense should take place and these so called experts should call off their day out for the day that is in it as their need or desire to be out on the water yesterday was far less important than wasted resources being called out to assess any danger these "experts " are in.

Society has laws and what the kite surfers and divers in Salthilll done yesterday didn't break laws, but for society to exist, common sense has to prevail also.

And, yes there was disdain aimed at the "selfie takers" on beaches and people on the piers, merely gazing out. These people were ushered away.

Naturally they cannot respond to, nor would they get reports of a car driving down a road or a man out walking his dog. That is a stupid analogy.

There were hundreds of thousands that took a walk yesterday under a tree, there was only a few dozen people who decided to be "extreme", "cool", "adventurous", "rebellious" and ignore a universal warning to stay the f*ck away from the sea FOR ONE DAY. Because they are experts, and sure people should assume that and not worry about me!!

As I said, as it escalated, most of these guys that went out were never in danger, much like the man under the tree lined avenue. But it takes just one filthy gust of wind and the "boy that called wolf" scenario begins and the blame game escalates.

Why didn't emergency services respond?
Why was he out there?
Why didn't anyone bother alerting the rescue services.

The answer to none of those questions is "Because they are experts and they knew what they were at "

pjohnson · 17-10-2017 05:02PM

BoatMad knows better than Niamh Fitzpatrick

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/dara-fitzpatrick-s-sister-criticises-idiots-ignoring-storm-warning-1.3259095

Are Am Eye · 17-10-2017 05:03PM

I'm emotionally drained.

josip · 17-10-2017 05:10PM

Are the kite surfers that posters are referring to the windsurfers in Dundalk?

The Talking Bread · 17-10-2017 05:11PM

BoatMad wrote: »

First off, rescue professionals do not put them selves in "danger". They are highly trained and have SOPs that are designed to allow them to carry out activities in conditions that others will as dangerous.

Nor can the "danger" of an activity be accessed by the simple fact that the rescue agencies were activated. If that was the case wed be billing huge numbers of "false alert with god intent "people that called the rescue agencies out each year.

the reality is none of the people in the water yesterday ( including many swimmers in Dublin )needed rescuing, the alert was actually a " false alarm "

( one of the many , actually the majority of callouts are FAs )

I am a former chairman of a lifeboat station

Captain Hindsight. Hero of the modern age.

Obviously they were false alarms but it was plain obvious, surely especially to a man like you with your experience in rescue profession, that there was going to be a massive increase in these "false alarms" yesterday, owing to the exacerbated circumstances/mentality of the country yesterday.

There is only a fine line between overreaction and natural reaction in events like yesterday. This was highlighted on forums like this yesterday.

The everyday Joe can't be blamed for not being able to rationalise the dangers concerned with yesterday's water activities, especially in a country like Ireland which doesn't get these extremely publicised weather alerts very often, despite being an island.

BoatMad · 17-10-2017 05:11PM

pjohnson wrote: »

BoatMad knows better than Niamh Fitzpatrick

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/dara-fitzpatrick-s-sister-criticises-idiots-ignoring-storm-warning-1.3259095

what does she know about anything about the sea

( or rescuers for that matter)

Activities can not be ranked simply because from time to time they result in a emergency call out, if it was so wed long ago have banned trawlers and cars

begbysback · 17-10-2017 05:12PM

Patww79 wrote: »

The ones going out diving/swimming should be euthanised to keep society advanced.

Advanced by genetic selection? I believe you will find that these are the risk takers, the thrill seekers - subjectively then one has to ask what would happen to us as a society if nobody took risks, personally I don't believe we would advance too far - Christopher Colombus ignored warnings - the wright brothers ignored warnings, the list would be endless.

Personally I'd be more worried over the way the media portrayed the storm, images of destruction everywhere, and when some thrill seekers were observed diving into rough seas, or kite surfing, who was the person the media contacted for comment? The sister of a rescuer who died recently - of course she was angry, and objectively within her rights to be angry too.

But we have hardly had a subjective view of the storm from the media - and what they have fed the public has produced fear, anger and confusion.

BoatMad · 17-10-2017 05:12PM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Captain Hindsight. Hero of the modern age.

Obviously they were false alarms but it was plain obvious, surely especially to a man like you with your experience in rescue profession, that there was going to be a massive increase in these "false alarms" yesterday, owing to the exacerbated circumstances/mentality of the country yesterday.

There is only a fine line between overreaction and natural reaction in events like yesterday. This was highlighted on forums like this yesterday.

The everyday Joe can't be blamed for not being able to rationalise the dangers concerned with yesterday's water activities, especially in a country like Ireland which doesn't get these extremely publicised weather alerts very often, despite being an island.

Sorry , Im not defending idiots , ( which some of those were ) , Im defending their rights to be idiots

pjohnson · 17-10-2017 05:15PM

BoatMad wrote: »

what does she know about anything about the sea

( or rescuers for that matter)

Activities can not be ranked simply because from time to time they result in a emergency call out, if it was so wed long ago have banned trawlers and cars

As with the kitesurfer expert. Not much point sure no one knows as much as you. I hope you picket Met Eireann hun x.

I guess the lesson here is if theres a storm and we see someone in the choppy water do absolutely nothing as they must be an expert. I hope you dont have this attitude when you're in the boat.

BoatMad · 17-10-2017 05:16PM

The everyday Joe can't be blamed for not being able to rationalise the dangers concerned with yesterday's water activities, especially in a country like Ireland which doesn't get these extremely publicised weather alerts very often, despite being an island.]

no argument there , FAs with good intent are very common , yesterdays was just one of many examples, nor was the conditions in the location challenging for the potential rescuers

WHat people don't release is that the majority of "shouts " are FAs or trivial rescues , ie easily survivable.

its only the few that justify the rescue services, but those few , don't in any way detract from the need to respond to everything

josip · 17-10-2017 05:18PM

pjohnson wrote: »

BoatMad knows better than Niamh Fitzpatrick

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/dara-fitzpatrick-s-sister-criticises-idiots-ignoring-storm-warning-1.3259095

If BoatMad has an RNLI background that's good enough for me.
Do you have experience in the area to back up your point?

pjohnson · 17-10-2017 05:19PM

josip wrote: »

If BoatMad has an RNLI background that's good enough for me.
Do you have experience in the area to back up your point?

No but I have braincells. I dont stick my hand in a fire because its stupid. I dont jump into the stormy sea either.

I'd be extremely suprised if the RNLI's official policy was "ah sure go for a swim".

I shouldnt be suprised this is being so staunchly defended. I mean people still think Ophelia was a non event.

BoatMad · 17-10-2017 05:32PM

pjohnson wrote: »

No but I have braincells. I dont stick my hand in a fire because its stupid. I dont jump into the stormy sea either.

I'd be extremely suprised if the RNLI's official policy was "ah sure go for a swim".

I didnt say it was, many people undertake "idiotic" things, like climbing mountains, sailing , kyaking , often in weather conditions that may be marginal etc

I dont defend their idiocy, I defend their ability to exercise being an idiot.

was it advisable to swim in galway , not obviously no , kite surfing , I gather these people knew what they were doing and didnt need rescuing , it is an adventure sport after all

The people that swam in sandymount, that was before any serious winds

The two yachts, possible more "idiots ", but I defend their rights to place themselves in danger

BoatMad · 17-10-2017 05:34PM

pjohnson wrote: »

As with the kitesurfer expert. Not much point sure no one knows as much as you. I hope you picket Met Eireann hun x.

I guess the lesson here is if theres a storm and we see someone in the choppy water do absolutely nothing as they must be an expert. I hope you dont have this attitude when you're in the boat.

If Im in a boat , and I need rescuing , I shall seek to emulate Blondie Haslers advice , thanks

I certainly dont need or want non expert FAs thanks

MadYaker · 17-10-2017 05:40PM

pjohnson wrote: »

As with the kitesurfer expert. Not much point sure no one knows as much as you. I hope you picket Met Eireann hun x.

I guess the lesson here is if theres a storm and we see someone in the choppy water do absolutely nothing as they must be an expert. I hope you dont have this attitude when you're in the boat.

If the kite surfers actually did come detached from their equipment and were in danger you wouldn't have been able to see them from the shore so I doubt anyone would have been calling anything. They'd be on their own and they knew this.

I also never to claimed to be an expert on anything, but I am a qualified beach lifeguard and surf instructor for the last 6 years. But sure don't let that stop you from putting words in my mouth.

chopperbyrne · 17-10-2017 06:04PM

In Bunclody.

Power went at 12:45 yesterday, and is still gone.

Water went between 09:30 and 10:30 this morning, and is still gone.

Irish Water are saying the water outages are a result of the power outages.

BoatMad · 17-10-2017 06:05PM

I guess the lesson here is if theres a storm and we see someone in the choppy water do absolutely nothing as they must be an expert. I hope you dont have this attitude when you're in the boat.

No. The aciivity be

(A) well within the capabilities of the person
(b) marginally within that persons ability
(C) outside that persons ability
(D) the subject of an unforeseen event

The potential alerters may

(A) be knowledgeable and determined great danger
(B) be marginally knowlegable and err on the side of caution
(C) be unaware but think it looks scary

This may result in

A valid rescue
A FA with good intent
A FA with bad intent ( i.e. Hoaxes )

In all cases rescuers respond

No subsequent moral judgement is useful or relevant.

Were some of the actions yesterday ill advised. Of course, but as a society we do illsdvised things every day.

If you want to ease the burden on rescue service look for ways to limit FAs

And yes I would have advised them not to go out in the water yesterday , but that's not the point. It's was a red warning , it's not a curfew

silverharp · 17-10-2017 07:37PM

https://twitter.com/PodyMac/status/919944578580516864

maryishere · 17-10-2017 07:46PM

I gather the conditions in Louth yesterday morning when the kite-surfers were normal conditions for kite-surfing, it was not considered too windy and it was well within the comfort zone and capabilities of the kite-surfers. A nice breeze, nothing too stormy.

Someone calls the coastguard. This was a FA. The question is, was it a FA with good intent or a FA with bad intent, given the kitesurfers did not want or need rescuing and were having fun, by all accounts. It was a normal days fun to them.

Given the forecast by Met Eireann and the possibility of someone on shore calling the coastguard, which did happen, perhaps more education of the public needs to be done to less the amounts of callouts in the future.

With such a forecast, the kitesurfers should not have gone out.
When they did go out, they should have left people on the shore to calm down members of the public who ended up alerting the coastguard needlessly.

Samaris · 17-10-2017 07:46PM

Alas, no gust of wind knocked him flat.

FizzleSticks · 17-10-2017 08:06PM

This post has been deleted.

Alf Veedersane · 17-10-2017 09:01PM

Samaris wrote: »

Alas, no gust of wind knocked him flat.

Now that would have been funny.

Balmed Out · 17-10-2017 09:09PM

Went to pub in clonakilty to watch cork city vs Derry. Town is like a weekend with the amount of people in pubs as they still have no electricity.

paleoperson · 17-10-2017 09:11PM

Am I tripping but does that guy on tv now not look and sound exactly like your man from d'unbelievables?

Widdershins · 17-10-2017 09:18PM

begbysback wrote: »

Advanced by genetic selection? I believe you will find that these are the risk takers, the thrill seekers - subjectively then one has to ask what would happen to us as a society if nobody took risks, personally I don't believe we would advance too far - Christopher Colombus ignored warnings - the wright brothers ignored warnings, the list would be endless.

Personally I'd be more worried over the way the media portrayed the storm, images of destruction everywhere, and when some thrill seekers were observed diving into rough seas, or kite surfing, who was the person the media contacted for comment? The sister of a rescuer who died recently - of course she was angry, and objectively within her rights to be angry too.

But we have hardly had a subjective view of the storm from the media - and what they have fed the public has produced fear, anger and confusion.

The difference is that Columbus and the Wrights had a purpose and took a calculated risk weighed against long term work and ambition. I don't think they were just thrillseekers, or in a category with people who jump into dangerous waters in dangerous weather for a laugh. This makes it much easier to understand the risks they (Columbus & Wright brothers) took. And they weren't counting on anyone saving them if they got into difficulty...

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 17-10-2017 09:57PM

Widdershins wrote: »

The difference is that Columbus and the Wrights had a purpose and took a calculated risk weighed against long term work and ambition. I don't think they were just thrillseekers, or in a category with people who jump into dangerous waters in dangerous weather for a laugh. This makes it much easier to understand the risks they (Columbus & Wright brothers) took. And they weren't counting on anyone saving them if they got into difficulty...

Your point is valid but Columbus actually was a bit stupid as he ignored the (correct) measurements of the distance to Asia that pretty much everyone told him. Had he not stumbled upon another continent (One he always denied existed) he would have died in the middle of the ocean.

John_Rambo · 17-10-2017 10:03PM

pjohnson wrote: »

I'd agree with the kitesurfers they shouldnt have been stopped. The emergency services shouldnt be wasting time on stupidity. If the kite surfers know best then good luck to them and though shit if they turn out to be wrong.

The emergency services should focus on serious issues.

There were no kitesurfers out.

There were windsurfers out way before the Eastern coast 1pm alert in perfectly safe conditions.

Someone saw them and assumed wrongly they were in trouble, even there were no signs of distress. The windsurfers were up on their boards sailing well and made their way to shore on their own steam.

It was recorded as a false call by rescue 116.

No need for the call. Waste of money.

The call was made by frantic, panicked, know-it-all, indignant, overreacting do-gooders who were standing on the shoreline in calm weather (where they shouldn't have been in they believed their own advice) with moderate winds observing people in calm waters with moderate winds because there was a storm warning for a few hours later.

If they'd have looked with their eyes and not their self righteous, tut-tutting compass and observed the activities with an adult like calm minded brain they would have saved a few thousand euro on fuel and unnecessary effort from rescue 116.

pjohnson, I know I quoted you, but it's not an attack on your very sensible post, and I agree with your post.

Harry Palmr · 17-10-2017 10:08PM

Look out Healy Rea is on the stupid box talking about the storm (which being him presumably didn't happen)

Gehad_JoyRider · 17-10-2017 10:19PM

maryishere wrote: »

I gather the conditions in Louth yesterday morning when the kite-surfers were normal conditions for kite-surfing, it was not considered too windy and it was well within the comfort zone and capabilities of the kite-surfers. A nice breeze, nothing too stormy.

Someone calls the coastguard. This was a FA. The question is, was it a FA with good intent or a FA with bad intent, given the kitesurfers did not want or need rescuing and were having fun, by all accounts. It was a normal days fun to them.

Given the forecast by Met Eireann and the possibility of someone on shore calling the coastguard, which did happen, perhaps more education of the public needs to be done to less the amounts of callouts in the future.

With such a forecast, the kitesurfers should not have gone out.
When they did go out, they should have left people on the shore to calm down members of the public who ended up alerting the coastguard needlessly.

Been saying that all day along with that gob****e Martin and Varadkar. Both on the high horse about something they nothing about. The water ort wind. And there advice will be from people who look at it from a Health and safEity point of view :rolleyes:

Donal55 · 17-10-2017 10:25PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Look out Healy Rea is on the stupid box talking about the storm (which being him presumably didn't happen)

Healy Rae on about EVs, farming, Climatology in the Middle Ages, and tree surgery.
Ther's absolutely nothing he can't talk, spoof, about.

So this Hurricane

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