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Should religious indoctrination of children be illegal?

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Comments

  • #32
    DeanAustin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote: »
    Indoctrinating a child is the same as indoctrinating a mentally-disabled adult. It should be illegal. The child spends his or her childhood attending (a usually Catholic) school with little or no alternative choice.

    I am 26 years old, and when I was growing up there was little or no other choices in my vicinity having grown up in a small-ish town on the outskirts of Dublin. The Roman Catholic Church has autonomy over most schools in Ireland.religion

    An over-subscribed school often uses religion as a filtering process to filter out candidates. A horrific process if you ask me.

    In my opinion, any school that receives even a penny of state funds should be forbidden from subscribing to any particular religion and religion should only be taught as a general subject for a minimal amount of time (from a neutral cultural education point of view). No class time should be wasted on Communion or Confirmation or first confession. If the parents really feel so strongly about religion, then they should bring their own kids to make their first confession, Communion and get confirmed.

    Bringing up a kid to believe in a sky-fairy is a horrid form of abuse.

    I rolled my eyes when I saw the thread title but was with you all the way through the post until you used the term "sky fairy". That sort of terminology is so disrespectful.

    I don't believe in God but I don't believe in belittling people who do. Using words like that makes you look like a c**t. Cut it out.


  • #33
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,801 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    I rolled my eyes when I saw the thread title but was with you all the way through the post until you used the term "sky fairy". That sort of terminology is so disrespectful.

    I don't believe in God but I don't believe in belittling people who do. Using words like that makes you look like a c**t. Cut it out.

    Youre making the mistake of implying that a criticism of religion equates to a criticism of its followers. Ideas must be open to scrutiny and ridicule, particularly ideas which make such bold, outlandish and illogical claims as religions tend to make.
    This is where you get absurd and sinister phrases like "islamophobia" which is designed to close down any attempt to critically examine Islam by making it a hate crime against its adherents.


  • #34
    MRnotlob606
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭MRnotlob606


    o1s1n wrote: »
    No, it's really not.

    Striving for truth and the answers behind life, the universe and everything is infinitely more beneficial to mankind and leads to society progressing and making new discoveries.

    Sitting on our hands with 'the answer to everything' ie 'the sky fairy' is archaic and gets us nowhere.

    Begrudging the central figure in someone's religions as "the sky fairy" isn't very intelligent either though is it?

    No its quite childish actually and stinks of superciliousness


  • #35
    MRnotlob606
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭MRnotlob606


    Using language like "indoctrination" isn't exactly impartial. I think you just have a confirmation bias.


  • #36
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,801 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    MRnotlob606 wrote: »
    Begrudging the central figure in someone's religions as "the sky fairy" isn't very intelligent either though is it?

    No its quite childish actually and stinks of superciliousness

    It's not particularly mature or helpful but it is not an attack of the people who follow the religion. This is a critical distinction which must be pointed out again and again.


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  • #37
    The_Valeyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭The_Valeyard


    I should probably make a poll,

    Q. How big a c*nt are militant atheists online?


  • #38
    Sue Pa Key Pa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,060 ✭✭✭Sue Pa Key Pa


    Fully agree OP. No religious indoctrination by parents or school . In fact, why should they be allowed dictate what their child eats, when they go to bed, if they go to school or how to behave in public. We have a Minister for Children and I urge every toddler to make their feelings known to her


  • #39
    The_Valeyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭The_Valeyard


    Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »
    . We have a Minister for Children and I urge every toddler to make their feelings known to her

    Sandboxes and free crayons for everyone!!


  • #40
    beefburrito
    Closed Accounts Posts: 695 ✭✭✭beefburrito


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    It's not particularly mature or helpful but it is not an attack of the people who follow the religion. This is a critical distinction which must be pointed out again and again.

    I ain't religious and I ain't no Atheist as I said before Atheism is an offshoot from the Abrahamic religion's....

    There's plenty of posts on board's slagging off religion and woo etc

    There's even a page in the A+A forum dedicated to all the negative aspects of following religion and anything superstitious or woo.

    Should parents not indoctrinate kids into rural life or farming, is that abusive....

    Should the fact that one gets their precious pumpkin into fishing at an early age be considered indoctrination....

    Jesus wept


  • #41
    DeanAustin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Youre making the mistake of implying that a criticism of religion equates to a criticism of its followers. Ideas must be open to scrutiny and ridicule, particularly ideas which make such bold, outlandish and illogical claims as religions tend to make.
    This is where you get absurd and sinister phrases like "islamophobia" which is designed to close down any attempt to critically examine Islam by making it a hate crime against its adherents.

    Behave yourself. Using the term "Sky fairy" is done with the intention of belittling religion and those that follow it. I've no problem with religion being open to scrutiny but have a massive problem with it being subject to throwaway and condescending terms like "Sky fairy".


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  • #42
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,801 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    Behave yourself. Using the term "Sky fairy" is done with the intention of belittling religion and those that follow it. I've no problem with religion being open to scrutiny but have a massive problem with it being subject to throwaway and condescending terms like "Sky fairy".
    You won't be shutting me down with that garbage :)


  • #43
    DeanAustin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    You won't be shutting me down with that garbage :)

    What's the smiley for?


  • #44
    Gerrup Outta Dat!
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 489 ✭✭Gerrup Outta Dat!


    I'm atheist - indoctrination should not be illegal.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Should it not be the other way around.

    If you don't like the ethos of a school in a building provided by the Church, or a school building on land donated by the Church, go build your own.

    If you had the brain capacity to understand the thread you’ll see that my problem is with schools that receive STATE FUNDING being able to reject a huge demographic of the population based on religion (or lack thereof).

    Irreligiousness (if that’s even a word) should be the default ethos of any school receiving state funding, if parents don’t like that then THEY should build a school for little Johnny. I doubt they would though. The majority of “Catholics” are hypocrites in this country anyway. Blindly ticking Catholic on the census and only attending Christmas Mass etc and only getting first Communion for the day out.

    And the non-religious (and other religious) community have already built their own schools. They’re called Educate Together Schools, but these are woefully uncommon as state-funded “Catholic” schools.


  • #45
    pjohnson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,362 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    I thought "atheism" would be too mainstream for many at this point.


  • #46
    beefburrito
    Closed Accounts Posts: 695 ✭✭✭beefburrito


    pjohnson wrote: »
    I thought "atheism" would be too mainstream for many at this point.

    Well they've only one Identity lol


  • #47
    beefburrito
    Closed Accounts Posts: 695 ✭✭✭beefburrito


    Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote: »
    If you had the brain capacity to understand the thread you’ll see that my problem is with schools that receive STATE FUNDING being able to reject a huge demographic of the population based on religion (or lack thereof).

    Irreligiousness (if that’s even a word) should be the default ethos of any school receiving state funding, if parents don’t like that then THEY should build a school for little Johnny. I doubt they would though. The majority of “Catholics” are hypocrites in this country anyway. Blindly ticking Catholic on the census and only attending Christmas Mass etc and only getting first Communion for the day out.

    And the non-religious (and other religious) community have already built their own schools. They’re called Educate Together Schools, but these are woefully uncommon as state-funded “Catholic” schools.

    This is what you call contempt prior to investigation "smiley"


  • #48
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,461 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote: »
    If you had the brain capacity to understand the thread you’ll see that my problem is with schools that receive STATE FUNDING being able to reject a huge demographic of the population based on religion (or lack thereof).. .

    You could have just made the thread about state funding and admission policies instead of being obtuse and then name calling and shouting. You are drowning out your own message.

    Maybe kids should not be forced to go to school until they want to. Nothing more barbaric than school itself. End up having to binge watch tele tubbies box set.


  • #49
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,461 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    beefburrito wrote: »
    Well they've only one Identity lol

    I'm not sure if they really believe in it...


  • #50
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote: »
    Irreligiousness (if that’s even a word) should be the default ethos of any school receiving state funding, if parents don’t like that then THEY should build a school for little Johnny. I doubt they would though. The majority of “Catholics” are hypocrites in this country anyway.

    .........

    And the non-religious (and other religious) community have already built their own schools. They’re called Educate Together Schools, but these are woefully uncommon as state-funded “Catholic” schools.

    Wait, so Catholics (hypothetically) not building schools is proof of their hypocrisy. *shakes fist at those damn Catholics*

    But actual very low levels of the non-religious communities building schools is the fault of the state.

    Gotcha.


  • #51
    Gerrup Outta Dat!
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 489 ✭✭Gerrup Outta Dat!


    I'm atheist - indoctrination should not be illegal.
    beauf wrote: »
    Maybe kids should not be forced to go to school until they want to. Nothing more barbaric than school itself.

    Moot argument and bad comparison. Most education is fact and is important for life and life skills. An education should be a human right. Religious indoctrination is not.


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  • #52
    Gerrup Outta Dat!
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 489 ✭✭Gerrup Outta Dat!


    I'm atheist - indoctrination should not be illegal.
    c_man wrote: »
    Wait, so Catholics (hypothetically) not building schools is proof of their hypocrisy. *shakes fist at those damn Catholics*

    But actual very low levels of the non-religious communities building schools is the fault of the state.

    Gotcha.

    My point is that the state should not be funding any school which subscribed to a certain religion. Do you have difficulty understanding this?


  • #53
    pjohnson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,362 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote: »
    My point is that the state should not be funding any school which subscribed to a certain religion. Do you have difficulty understanding this?

    You had difficulty explaining the OP.


  • #54
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,320 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote:
    Moot argument and bad comparison. Most education is fact and is important for life and life skills. An education should be a human right. Religious indoctrination is not.


    A lot of what is thought in our educational system is ****e, has very little to do with real life for many, very little life skills thought within the system


  • #55
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,461 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote: »
    Moot argument and bad comparison. Most education is fact and is important for life and life skills. An education should be a human right. Religious indoctrination is not.

    It isn't a right either???

    The only problem is atheists didn't t believe in building schools. So there are very few of them. It's improving though.

    I'm more concerned about the number of shopping days till Xmas.


  • #56
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote: »
    My point is that the state should not be funding any school which subscribed to a certain religion. Do you have difficulty understanding this?

    Damn lazy, hypocritical Catholics not building schools in your proposed utopia...

    But non-religious communities not building schools in the here and now is the fault of the state.

    I think I understand your position perfectly.


  • #57
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,774 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote: »
    My point is that the state should not be funding any school which subscribed to a certain religion. Do you have difficulty understanding this?

    Why not? The state uses tax payers money to fund schools. The majority of people in Ireland are catholic and want their children brought up as Catholics and schooled in catholic schools so of course the state should be funding catholic schools with the tax payers money. I would have a serious problem if the state even considered not funding catholic schools, not that it has a hope of happening.


  • #58
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,461 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    A lot of what is thought in our educational system is ****e, has very little to do with real life for many, very little life skills thought within the system

    They should have higher level

    Choose a Health insurance plan subject

    Be harder than maths...


  • #59
    Gerrup Outta Dat!
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 489 ✭✭Gerrup Outta Dat!


    I'm atheist - indoctrination should not be illegal.
    Lorenzo Clever Chinchilla wrote: »
    The majority of people in Ireland are catholic and want their children brought up as Catholics and schooled in catholic schools

    That’s not true


  • #60
    Sue Pa Key Pa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,060 ✭✭✭Sue Pa Key Pa


    Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote:
    If you had the brain capacity to understand the thread you’ll see that my problem is with schools that receive STATE FUNDING being able to reject a huge demographic of the population based on religion (or lack thereof).

    You don't seem to have the capacity to understand that the majority of schools are owned by the church and parents/citizens are more than happy to send their kids to them. Having made that choice, the State provides financial backup to support their free decision


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  • #61
    Allinall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,407 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote: »
    That’s not true

    I think you'll find it is, much to your disappointment.


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