Breaking lights at empty crossroads = victimless crime, or is it?

dil999 · 07-10-2017 05:22PM

Isambard wrote: »

I and most other drivers break the Law regularly when it suits us. There must be some who never do but I don't see them when I'm on the road, but there's a few on here it seems.

Don't tar the rest of the driving population with your selfish and immature attitude. The vast majority of Irish drivers are safe courteous and obey the rules of the road. They are mature enough to realise that the rules of the road are not just for them, but for the safety and convenience of all.

There are a small percentage of selfish immature idiots, like yourself, who have no idea what driving is about. I don't mean to insult you by calling you an idiot, I am just stating an obvious fact. You have come on here tell everyone that you break the law regularly when it suits you, and then imply that most other drivers do the same. Newsflash. They don't.

I will make the assumption from the absolute stupidity of your post that you are a quite young and inexperienced driver. You would be well advised to grow up before you become a road statistic and end up in one of those RSA adverts, sitting in a wheelchair and having members of your family feeding you baby food on a spoon.

grogi · 07-10-2017 05:27PM

Look at that... Not only saints, but we have some writers among us!

Rubberchikken · 07-10-2017 05:34PM

Why is someone who follows the rules of the road classified as a 'saint' yet those that let loose with a gun are called crazy and obvious lawbreakers?
Anyone behind the wheel of a vehicle has the potential to cause catastrophic damage.

But No, breaking speed limits is just being a 'great driver' *sigh*

07-10-2017 05:37PM

Hooks Golf Handicap wrote: »

Poll still only says 30% break lights so there's a large majority who follow the law, even at 4am in rural village.

Good for them

Well it's 42% as option (c) is also people who care but do it anyway.

dil999 wrote: »

There are a small percentage of selfish immature idiots, like yourself, who have no idea what driving is about. I don't mean to insult you by calling you an idiot, I am just stating an obvious fact. You have come on here tell everyone that you break the law regularly when it suits you, and then imply that most other drivers do the same. Newsflash. They don't.

As above close to half of those responding to the poll would break the light so that's not a small percentage by a long shot.

I would see someone who blindly follows the rules of the road and doesn't make those own assessment as a poor driver.

biko · 07-10-2017 05:40PM

Adriana Bewildered Neighbor wrote: »

Also I've no idea what my presence on a motoring forum is being questioned for.

Let's put it this way.
Someone saying "I see the rules of the road as nothing more than a guide, in general I have my own interpretation and base what I do on what I fell is safe rather than some rule someone made up and is treated as gospel by many" is at best trolling and at worst a major traffic danger.

No, you don't get to decide for yourself what traffic rules are right or wrong. The driver's test, which I assume you have passed, is to make sure you understand and abide by the common traffic rules everyone must follow.

There will be just one outcome here, and that is that everyone must follow traffic regulations.

grogi · 07-10-2017 06:05PM

biko wrote: »

Let's put it this way.
Someone saying "I see the rules of the road as nothing more than a guide, in general I have my own interpretation and base what I do on what I fell is safe rather than some rule someone made up and is treated as gospel by many" is at best trolling and at worst a major traffic danger.

No, you don't get to decide for yourself what traffic rules are right or wrong. The driver's test, which I assume you have passed, is to make sure you understand and abide by the common traffic rules everyone must follow.

There will be just one outcome here, and that is that everyone must follow traffic regulations.

But law is a written set of articles. Its application depends on the interpretation, and EVERYONE has own interpretation.

Otherwise we would not need courts.

boombang · 07-10-2017 06:14PM

I saw a cyclist run a red that he thought was grand. The gob****e didn't see another cyclist coming through on green and got t boned by him. Both ended up heavily winded but it could have been so much worse as the guy on green was moving quickly and didn't have time to stop. Not exactly the same situation, but it was a good example to me that taking chances can have serious consequences.

Locals should get the authorities to change it to a stop.

biko · 07-10-2017 06:19PM

grogi wrote: »

But law is a written set of articles. Its application depends on the interpretation, and EVERYONE has own interpretation.

Otherwise we would not need courts.

Are there traffic regulations you feel are open to interpretation? Which ones?

grogi · 07-10-2017 06:21PM

biko wrote: »

Are there traffic regulations you feel are open to interpretation? Which ones?

Should I google how many times last month we had questions about driving on roundabouts?

biko · 07-10-2017 06:23PM

So you think roundabout rules are open to interpretation?

Or, do you think there is one correct way laid out in traffic rules, and a lot of people that don't follow the rules?

07-10-2017 06:24PM

biko wrote: »

Are there traffic regulations you feel are open to interpretation? Which ones?

If a red light was broken and stuck on red would you sit there all day until someone comes and fixes it?

When a light is orange you interpret if it's safer to proceed or slam on the breaks.

Speed limits may be too fast for the conditions, do you just drive at the limit regardless.

There are interpretations for nearly every rule.

biko · 07-10-2017 06:27PM

I hope I am not about to cross that intersection when you decide you have waited long enough at that red light.

dil999 · 07-10-2017 06:53PM

Adriana Bewildered Neighbor wrote: »

If a red light was broken and stuck on red would you sit there all day until someone comes and fixes it?

When a light is orange you interpret if it's safer to proceed or slam on the breaks.

Speed limits may be too fast for the conditions, do you just drive at the limit regardless.

There are interpretations for nearly every rule.

1: Yes is happens so often
2: Rules of the road state you stop it it safe to do so. Doesn't require an analytical brain
3: Its a limit. You do understand what a limit is

None of these are interpretations. they are you misunderstanding the rules of the road.

From reading your posts, particularly the one re children operating farm machinery, you obviously don't have the capacity or skill to make the type of the decisions you think you should be allowed make.

The rules of the road, not guidelines, rules, are designed to protect road users from people who think "I'm an excellent driver" and clearly are not.

Purple Mountain · 07-10-2017 07:00PM

There's a T junction in a village near me with a STOP on the road.
There is a green on the T so oncoming traffic can be seen for 100m or so.
From what I can see people yield there instead of stopping dead.

dil999 · 07-10-2017 07:05PM

grogi wrote: »

But law is a written set of articles. Its application depends on the interpretation, and EVERYONE has own interpretation.

Otherwise we would not need courts.

From other posts on here I know you have zero knowledge of the law. That statement proves the point. The only people that get to interpret the law are Judges. In Ireland, the Law is not just a written set of articles. It is based on statutes, the constitution and common law. The Irish legal system is a highly complex hierarchical system, and requires more than Google to get a cursory understanding

Bottom line, unless you are a Judge you don't get to interpret the law, you get to obey it.

EPAndlee · 07-10-2017 07:09PM

The only red lights I've ever gone through is the road works traffic lights with a timer at night

grogi · 07-10-2017 07:21PM

dil999 wrote: »

Bottom line, unless you are a Judge you don't get to interpret the law, you get to obey it.

I am genuinely jealous for your absolute knowledge.

How should I know what is the law (when it is so complex?)

I don't, you don't. Nobody really can know for certain what the law was until the highest court rules. Until then I have to use my best knowledge of the current state of the law and apply interpretation of what I know for the specific situation.

I guess we simply don't agree the meaning of the word interpretation.

grogi · 07-10-2017 07:25PM

biko wrote: »

So you think roundabout rules are open to interpretation?

Or, do you think there is one correct way laid out in traffic rules, and a lot of people that don't follow the rules?

I think there is one proper way and I have stated it numerous times here. But I am certain other drivers also believe their way is the right way...

Unless we get a precedent, everyone will apply their own interpretation.

-- edit

Here's another one - what does 'slow moving traffic' mean (in context of overtaking in the left lane)? Is 40@120 slow?!

Isambard · 07-10-2017 07:46PM

Hooks Golf Handicap wrote: »

Poll still only says 30% break lights so there's a large majority who follow the law, even at 4am in rural village.

Good for them

this instance perhaps but do they rigidly stick to the Law in all circumstances? Can't have it both ways

07-10-2017 08:02PM

dil999 wrote: »

1: Yes is happens so often

Sitting at a broken red light is idiotic, I've never seen anyone sit there and wait. How many hours would you sit there while people deaffen you with their horns and drive around you before you would decide to move on?

dil999 wrote: »

1
From reading your posts, particularly the one re children operating farm machinery, you obviously don't have the capacity or skill to make the type of the decisions you think you should be allowed make.

The rules of the road, not guidelines, rules, are designed to protect road users from people who think "I'm an excellent driver" and clearly are not.

Well it was my parents and relations decision to allow me to drive as a child and I see other local farmers training their children to drive young also still. As for using the rules of the road as guidelines its served me well for the 16 years I've been driving cars and other machinery on the roads and covering considerable mileage in that time.

There isn't a single driver on the road who doesn't break some of the rules at times, you are kidding yourself if you think there is.

Synthol · 07-10-2017 08:07PM

Sheeplets liken usually using a light bulb instead of common sense. You give your life for a light bulb instead of using any sense.

dil999 · 07-10-2017 08:13PM

Synthol wrote: »

Sheeplets liken usually using a light bulb instead of common sense. You give your life for a light bulb instead of using any sense.

Very Deep. I think that synthol has swelled your brain up a little.

dr.fuzzenstein · 08-10-2017 07:46AM

The broken light one is a good example.
How long would you sit there? Half an hour, one hour, half a day? Longer?
What if it happened at night? Would you turn off the engine and go to sleep and wait till the morning until a repair crew comes?
What if it happened Friday evening and the light can't be fixed till Monday? Would you sit there in your car till then?
I guess you could always call the Gardai and tell them your predicament and ask them to send a squad car to direct you safely through the red light. I'm sure ASG are very eager to call out quickly and help you.

GM228 · 08-10-2017 08:39AM

grogi wrote: »

dil999 wrote: »

Bottom line, unless you are a Judge you don't get to interpret the law, you get to obey it.

I am genuinely jealous for your absolute knowledge.

How should I know what is the law (when it is so complex?) I don't, you don't. Nobody really can know for certain what the law was until the highest court rules. Until then I have to use my best knowledge of the current state of the law and apply interpretation of what I know for the specific situation.

I guess we simply don't agree the meaning of the word interpretation.

Not every law requires a judgement from the highest court to know for certain, in fact when you look at the entire body of law only a very very small percentage does.

With regards to "how should I know what is the law" and using "best knowledge", the well tested and sound legal principle of Ignorantia legis neminem excusat applies.

Feel free to interpret the law how you like, but that does not mean your interpretation is correct though no matter how much knowledge you have or how you apply it to the specific situation.

GM228 · 08-10-2017 08:56AM

Adriana Bewildered Neighbor wrote: »

If a red light was broken and stuck on red would you sit there all day until someone comes and fixes it?

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

The broken light one is a good example.
How long would you sit there? Half an hour, one hour, half a day? Longer?
What if it happened at night? Would you turn off the engine and go to sleep and wait till the morning until a repair crew comes?
What if it happened Friday evening and the light can't be fixed till Monday? Would you sit there in your car till then?
I guess you could always call the Gardai and tell them your predicament and ask them to send a squad car to direct you safely through the red light. I'm sure ASG are very eager to call out quickly and help you.

Traffic lights must be lighted and extinguished in turn, at intervals determined by an automatic or manually operated device, if they don't (i.e they are defective) you are not required to obey them as they no longer have a lawful standing.

The issue however which arises is how long the interval should be - what is the longest red light sequence in Ireland? I'd say no more than 5 or 6 minutes perhaps.

sunnysoutheast · 08-10-2017 09:13AM

I was thinking of this thread when I was dropping the kids off earlier, there is a traffic light which can take an absolute age to change early in the morning.

I was just about to inch forward to go through it to turn left - thinking it must be busted - when it finally changed, the second car just coming to a stop at the red light on the other side of the road was a fecking traffic corps car.

Isambard · 08-10-2017 09:18AM

i'd say you weren't up to the line and not activating the sensor. Maybe you did inch forward enough to get it to work?

sunnysoutheast · 08-10-2017 09:20AM

Isambard wrote: »

i'd say you weren't up to the line and not activating the sensor. Maybe you did inch forward enough to get it to work?

No was right at the front at the line. Flashed my lights at it too!

I think it just has odd programming in the early morning.

Synthol · 08-10-2017 11:20AM

Traffic lights should be turned off like in most countries during the night and a system of primary/secondary road used. It's absolutely ridiculous when you are going somewhere in the middle of the night and sit at the traffic lights for 5 minutes waiting until all the pedestrian lights go off even though there is nobody in sight for miles. You just sit there for ages because you have to obey a light bulb.

doolox · 08-10-2017 11:36AM

Red light on for ages. Taxi ahead of me waited for 4 or 5 minutes then pulled out carefully onto the dual carriageway when it was empty.

I pulled out in a similar fashion with no harm done.

On a similar note the lights at the Brewery Road interchange went off and there was complete chaos. I was intending to turn right but quickly changed my mind to a left turn which was still physically possible, then went towards town, did a u turn and was able to get through the junction while people around me were stuck trying to make a right turn on an unlit traffic junction.

Breaking lights at empty crossroads = victimless crime, or is it?

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