Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread II

DickSwiveller wrote: »

You, like many here, miss the point about Trump. It wasn't that people necessarily loved him - it's clear he has many character flaws; it was a combination of Trump facing the worst candidate in the history of presidential elections

The above is just regurgitating one of Trumps lies.
Remember:

• With voter supression Obama 2012 would have struggled against Trump in the swing States
• Russia hacked election and dumped on the Democrats at strategically damaging times
• MSM covered 5 times more of Hilary's emails versus Trumps collusion, criminality, narcissism
• Trump used Russian active measures by mentioning the email dumps almost 200 times in the last month.
• The vast majority of vital SM news was fake and backing Trump. This was microtargetted to users SM profiles
• The GOP had tergetted Clinton with suprious Benghazi lies over 40 investigation
• Bannon et al had targetted her with cerative writing like 'Clinton Cash' which was taken up by hapless NYT.
• She was the first female candidate
• Inspite of all this she still won the popular vote convinvingly

She had her flaws namely the Clinton foundation which was a black box that allowed Bannon, Mercer et al to associate it with anything. Basically they could pin the entire neo-liberal system on her. And the system IS broken.

b) a big up yours to the metropolitan elite who have ignored ordinary Americans for decades.

Trump is a NY billionaire. He is metropolitan elite. Exxon Mobil is SoS. Boeing is defence. Goldman Sachs is everything else. THis is the most elite corporate admin in world history. Ordinary people will have their healthcare taken away, their wages cut, their rights stamped on. By ordinary people I am talking about all ordinary people not just whites.

Surely that is worth something.

Is your chuckling with Trump trying to turn the worlds formost superpower into a dictatorship worth the consequences...worth the inevitable deaths and wars that will follow?

DickSwiveller wrote: »

A dictatorship? Calm down with the hysteria.

Can you please enlighten us as to why this seems hysterical given Trumps authoritarian behaviour since assuming power? <snip.

I get it that many people, at least superficially if not that they actually believed it themselves, voted for Trump on the basis of a change. They wanted a new broom to sweep in. The realign the government back to the people.

That theory falls away quite quickly when you see that they continued to vote for the GOP, the very essence of the swamp. But we can park that for the moment.

But regardless of Trumps political views, and how they reflect or otherwise the nation, what is quite staggering is just how unsuited he is to the job.

Whilst there are as many theories about what makes a good leader as there are books about it, and in many cases good leaders are specifically due to the time or events facing them, some of the common traits of good leaders are good oratory, ability to empathise, ability to strike the right mood at the right time. To be intelligent (not simple in terms of Stephen Hawkins type smarts, but more that they understand and can articulate what is going on).

An ability to bring disparate groups closer together, even if only to achieve a temporary goal. Ability to see the important issues, regardless of what others may believe to be important (for example budgets are important but sometimes people just need help).

Normally it takes a combination of these to make a good leader. They don't necessarily need to be good at all of them, but being very strong on one or more can overcome shortfalls in others.

But for the life of me I cannot see one leadership trait in Trump. He seems almost gleeful in his ignorance. Seems to never prepare. Has seemingly no ability to understand the requirements of certain situations (playing by throwing papers towels in PR and telling people to enjoy themselves). At a picnic this would come across as fun and with it, but it was neither the time or place.

He is very thinned skinned and is easily put off his stride. He seemingly cannot hold a coherent argument beyond a few sentences and can be easily sidetracked.

It is much like the failing football team getting rid of the underperforming manager and putting a favorite ex player in charge. That player has no training, no experience and doesn't have the tools to do the job. And time and again the fans are left wondering why things didn't improve beyond maybe a short blip.

The problem for the manager, and thus Trump, is that in isolation they way well be able to learn and get by. But they aren't in isolation. They continually come up against better managers, better prepared or have events thrown at them. Luck can play a part in getting by some of the time, but they will always come up against someone better.

Trump is facing a world with leaders with years of experience. Merkel, Putin, Xi Jinping. The only one he has any success with is May, and she was pretty much as unprepared as he was and also in far greater need than him for a saviour.

A country like Ireland can get by with a bad leader. Sure it will suck for us, but in the overall scheme of things it won't make much difference. POTUS is on a completely different level. They want to be seen as the leader of the world, yet have given the keys to a person who has shown no ability to do the job. And never did before the election

Billy86 wrote: »

If they voted for Trump, they're most likely lying to themselves. They'd vote Ted cruz or trump Mk.II in a heartbeat so long as the letter (r) was beside his name.

The problem at the heart of American politics.

Seriously though, there has to be limits to lying to oneself.

Signs of more trouble in paradise. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/tillerson-s-fury-trump-required-intervention-pence-n806451

This doesn't surprise me at all considering Trumps recent tweets undermining Tillerson's efforts with North Korea. I'll be surprised if Tillerson lasts the full term. If he goes it would surely be the most high profile departure we'd seen. I think the administration would probably survive it though.

VinLieger wrote: »

Whats at the heart of that problem is when it comes down to what people do in voting booths for far too many its dependent on the answer to one of 2 questions "Do you want to take my guns" and "Do you want to kill babies"

There is also the fact that the elected representatives are put in place with roughly half of Americans not voting at all and little to no discussion is ever taking place anywhere about that fact. Turnout at the last general election was a paltry 54% and at the last mid terms 33%. Neither the Republicans who it seems want as few people as possible to vote nor the Democrats talk about this fact and neither party has shown any inclination or interest in actually representing the best interests of the vast majority of Americans.

DickSwiveller wrote: »

b) a big up yours to the metropolitan elite who have ignored ordinary Americans for decades.

I am absolutely, mind-bendingly baffled by anyone who tries to say this with a straight face.

Billy86 wrote: »

What wins out? Trump's common sense that he needs Tillerson and needs to keep his inner circle somewhat intact for a number of reasons including not completely losing Congress, not appearing even more weak and incompetent, and in case anyone knows anything further Russian related that they might let slip... or Trump's fragile ego?

Nice knowing you Rex, it might not come immediately but you're now standing on the edge of a plank.

The whole oil industry, climate change is a huge thing in this administration. And Tillerson is/was the CEO of the biggest oil company in the world.

He could walk as the anti-fossil fuel regulation is being dismantled.

The big issue is the price of oil: It is not profitable enough now to go for the harder to extract fracking and Tar sands etc or drill in deep waters like the Arctic.

War brings up the price of oil. So when you see the dept of State being defunded, dismantled, all the good people leave with Exxon-Mobil as SoS and Trump as president....

The job is to dismantle regulations, dismantle climate change bodies and bring up the price of oil. Job is only 2/3 done.

MadYaker wrote: »

Signs of more trouble in paradise. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/tillerson-s-fury-trump-required-intervention-pence-n806451

This doesn't surprise me at all considering Trumps recent tweets undermining Tillerson's efforts with North Korea. I'll be surprised if Tillerson lasts the full term. If he goes it would surely be the most high profile departure we'd seen. I think the administration would probably survive it though.

Get that. Reading the news report of Rex's remark about Don being a moron explained why Don passed the comment "stand aside Rex" re negotiating with NK, he couldn't resist making the dig. The image of Rex leading the news agenda wouldn't fit well with a person of limited self-esteem. If Rex resigns it should be a ball-breaker for Don.

Just listened to trump speaking in las vegas, not once did he mention guns....again shameless stuff

Are you not aware of the relationship between the NRA and the Republican Party?

Like it was obvious to a blind man that he was never going to bring up guns.

Criticising him for something so obvious is just ridiculous.

Funny thing is that if he did mention gun control all you would see posted in this thread is that he has proven how delusional he is and how he is alienating his own party and some other critical stuff. No chance he would ever get any credit in this thread.

I'm not a fan of Trump but I hope he sees out his term because I really fear what could happen if Mike Pence became potus.

I predicted before we even knew who the republican candidate was that he/she would beat Hilary. I prefer a democrat in the White House and hopefully they have the good sense to put a candidate forward next time around who actually has a chance to win an election.