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Landord asking for 19% increase in rent

  • 02-10-2017 03:12PM
    #1
    SchrodingersCat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,051 ✭✭✭


    Hi,
    I was wondering if anyone could advise on the following.
    I have been renting an apartment in Tallaght for nearly 3 years now.
    The original contract was for a year. We havent heard anything from the landlord with regards rent reviews until now. With 1-2 months to go until our 3 year is complete, the landlord has notified us that they wish to increase the rent by 19%.

    I was wondering if anyone had any advice on the following:
    1. Can they increase it by this amount? I thought it was capped by 4% per year in Dublin. Does this mean its capped from a single increase by 4%, or can they increase it by 12% as three years will have elapsed since the last review, which was the original contract signing?
    2. Does this 4% increase per annum get compounded over the three years?
    3. If we dont agree to pay the 19% increase, but instead agree to pay the maximum allowed of 4%, can the landlord just kick us out and claim that they want to do renovations?
    4. If they do kick us out, how much notice do they have to give?
    5. If we do agree to pay the increase, whether it is 4% or 20% or whatever, do we have to start a new contract for a year? Im not sure what our plan is in the next few months, so would rather not have to commit to a year lease.

    Would anyone know of how best for us to approach this with the landlord?

    Thanks for your advice! :)
    Tagged:


Comments

  • #2
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    1. No. The first increase can be 6% for 3 years. See here for the RPZ calculator.
    2. No.
    3. Possibly, but you may have a case against them as a notice of termination after an illegal rent increase could be seen in a bad light. Currently the RTB haven't issued any guidance on substantial refurbishment/ substantial change of nature of property.
    4. 8 or 12 weeks, depending on whether it's before 3 years or after 3 years.
    5. No.

    The best approach is to send them a link to the requirements for rent increases from the RTB.


  • #3
    Ms Doubtfire1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Ms Doubtfire1


    I am presuming you're in the RPZ - so no, they can increase by 4% - 6%. They can't kick you out either, as you are protected under part 4 if you are fulfilling all your tenant duties. (paying rent on time, adhering to the rules etc etc).


  • #4
    DubCount
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭DubCount


    SchrodingersCat wrote: »
    Hi,
    I was wondering if anyone could advise on the following.
    I have been renting an apartment in Tallaght for nearly 3 years now.
    The original contract was for a year. We havent heard anything from the landlord with regards rent reviews until now. With 1-2 months to go until our 3 year is complete, the landlord has notified us that they wish to increase the rent by 19%.

    I was wondering if anyone had any advice on the following:
    1. Can they increase it by this amount? I thought it was capped by 4% per year in Dublin. Does this mean its capped from a single increase by 4%, or can they increase it by 12% as three years will have elapsed since the last review, which was the original contract signing?
    2. Does this 4% increase per annum get compounded over the three years?
    3. If we dont agree to pay the 19% increase, but instead agree to pay the maximum allowed of 4%, can the landlord just kick us out and claim that they want to do renovations?
    4. If they do kick us out, how much notice do they have to give?
    5. If we do agree to pay the increase, whether it is 4% or 20% or whatever, do we have to start a new contract for a year? Im not sure what our plan is in the next few months, so would rather not have to commit to a year lease.

    Would anyone know of how best for us to approach this with the landlord?

    Thanks for your advice! :)

    Tallaght is in a RPZ, so there is a limit on the possible increase. The first increase is based on 24 months, so I reckon the maximum increase is 6% (36 / 24 x 4%). There can be a 4% increase on the new rental rate after another year. Check out RTB.ie (I cant post a link)

    The landlord cant kick you out because you wont pay the increase. He/she also cant charge any new tenant any more that they can charge you.

    The landlord can make significant renovations and increase rent to current market value, but the renovations have to be significant (more than just a lick of paint). You also have to be offered first chance to rent the newly renovated property at its new rental rate.

    While the law is on your side here, its policed really badly. You can refer any increase above the RPZ rates to the RTB, but there are many posts on here about Landlords not playing by the rules.

    If you are resident there for over 3 years, the LL will need to give you 12 weeks notice, and comply with strict rules on what makes a valid notice.

    Good luck


  • #5
    SchrodingersCat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,051 ✭✭✭SchrodingersCat


    Thanks Michael D Not Higgins, Ms Doubtfire1 and DubCount,
    Yes, I am in the RPZ area. The RPZ calculator is great, thanks for the pointer. It appears that they are legally not allowed to increase the rent close to what they were looking for.

    From your responses, I understand now that the mail that they sent us is probably intentionally ambiguous.
    They state that they "intent to increase the rent next month by 19%." and could we inform them "if we plan on staying there?".

    This could be read in two ways: They could be asking us to increase our rent payments by 19%. Or, if needed, they could deny that this was the intention. They could state that they were looking for us to move out so that they could renovate to increase the rent by 19%.

    I think our best move here is to play dumb and to ask them for clarification. What do ye think?


  • #6
    Browney7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,100 ✭✭✭Browney7


    SchrodingersCat wrote: »
    Thanks Michael D Not Higgins, Ms Doubtfire1 and DubCount,
    Yes, I am in the RPZ area. The RPZ calculator is great, thanks for the pointer. It appears that they are legally not allowed to increase the rent close to what they were looking for.

    From your responses, I understand now that the mail that they sent us is probably intentionally ambiguous.
    They state that they "intent to increase the rent next month by 19%." and could we inform them "if we plan on staying there?".

    This could be read in two ways: They could be asking us to increase our rent payments by 19%. Or, if needed, they could deny that this was the intention. They could state that they were looking for us to move out so that they could renovate to increase the rent by 19%.

    I think our best move here is to play dumb and to ask them for clarification. What do ye think?

    Just keep paying what you are paying until you get a valid review letter with three comparable properties with the correct notice etc.


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  • #7
    The Moldy Gowl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,889 ✭✭✭✭The Moldy Gowl


    They can always throw a tantrum and say they are selling the house, or they get a family member to move back in.
    Put it back on the market then after 3 months.

    The 4% thing means nothing in the real world.


  • #8
    VonBeanie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 101 ✭✭VonBeanie


    SchrodingersCat wrote: »
    Thanks Michael D Not Higgins, Ms Doubtfire1 and DubCount,
    Yes, I am in the RPZ area. The RPZ calculator is great, thanks for the pointer. It appears that they are legally not allowed to increase the rent close to what they were looking for.

    From your responses, I understand now that the mail that they sent us is probably intentionally ambiguous.
    They state that they "intent to increase the rent next month by 19%." and could we inform them "if we plan on staying there?".

    This could be read in two ways: They could be asking us to increase our rent payments by 19%. Or, if needed, they could deny that this was the intention. They could state that they were looking for us to move out so that they could renovate to increase the rent by 19%.

    I think our best move here is to play dumb and to ask them for clarification. What do ye think?

    It is possible they are just clueless about the RPZ laws. I would direct them to the RTB website in case they simply don't realise they can make that increase.

    If they do try to evict you on renovation grounds, sending you that email was a real own goal, as it may help you win a case of illegal eviction.


  • #9
    Agent J
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭Agent J


    The Moldy Gowl wrote: »
    They can always throw a tantrum and say they are selling the house, or they get a family member to move back in.
    Put it back on the market then after 3 months.

    The 4% thing means nothing in the real world.

    They can but in reality they would be screwed because they asked for an over the top increase first. It would be a prima facie case of illegal eviction.

    They issue notice. Tenant disputes and takes it to the PRTB.
    It'll take 3/6 months to even be heard by the PRTB and the tenant has very good grounds to defend on. Whole thing could easily drag on for a year.


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