Catalan independence referendum, 2017

Whoever gave the police their orders to basically beat up anyone who was in their way must be deranged.

The Catalonian independence movement has just had a huge PR coup.

I think the mayor said it well. The PM should resign.

Spanish government has completely **** the bed on this one. I wouldn't mind so much if the British hadn't given them a textbook example of how to completely undermine a separatist movement just thee years ago.

Dimwits.

So far the protests have been peaceful,well peaceful from the independence movement
What happens next ? It will be a huge yes win because the no side boycotted the vote
Bbc said before today that only 41% of Catalans wanted independence, could this all lead to civil war ala the Balkans? Pro Madrdid Catalans supported by Spain v Independent movement? Or is that way off or not even plausible?

Well has completely gone to sh!t fairly quick. The very heavy handed response from the Spanish government seems like a stupid response. The referendum was already ruled illegal by the Spanish supreme court.

I think the turnout will be important. In fairness they are fairly evenly split. If those who would have voted no stayed at home, it a weakness.
But the violence of the police overshadows all.

prinzeugen wrote: »

Even if they do declare independence it will mean nothing if other countries refuse to recognise them as a state.

Yep and noway will the EU recognise It, Russia certainly won't as it has break away regions as do China .USA won't ,Latin America won't want to mess relationship with Spain,So it's all a non runner

The first problem for Spain is breakdown of its own order, not who does or not recognise Catalonya.

The Basques will now also get restless. Spain to stay in some way together must negotiate.

Beaver, you would have had a real problem in this country in 1918.

Rajoy and his ministers should have read some Irish history books on what happened here 100 years ago. At the start of the decade the British managed to help turn a country that was largely content to remain in the UK (providing there was Home Rule which was basically a limited form of devolved government) into a country which by the end of the decade had most of the population wanting to separate altogether.

The Spanish should have let the referendum take place and then make their claim afterwards that it was not valid. Instead, this heavy-handed approach with images of women getting dragged by the hair, elderly men being aggressively man-handled, fire fighters getting battered is a PR disaster now and for the forseeable future. It's a level of idiocy that's hard to fathom.

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Turnout means nothing - the vote has been declared illegal and the legislation that brought it about unconstitutional.

and? facist violence from the state against folk who want to put an X on a piece of paper

na1 wrote: »

EagererBeaver wrote: »

They're not even evenly split. 41% support for independence in the last poll from the Generalitat

Who owns that "poll"?
In the last actual REFERENDUM in 2014, the 81% voted YES!

The Generalitat, as I said in my post. You know what that is don't you?

Lol, I jest, you clearly don't know what you're on about. 2014 wasn't a referendum. It was a sham that, like today, was boycotted by those that don't support independence.

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Turnout means nothing - the vote has been declared illegal and the legislation that brought it about unconstitutional.

and? facist violence from the state against folk who want to put an X on a piece of paper

What's with the endless reactionary bollocks in this thread? A poster stated that turnout would now be important. I pointed out that turnout would be irrelevant. Nothing to do with the disgraceful scenes today. Try reading the posts for once.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Rajoy and his ministers should have read some Irish history books on what happened here 100 years ago. At the start of the decade the British managed to help turn a country that was largely content to remain in the UK (providing there was Home Rule which was basically a limited form of devolved government) into a country which by the end of the decade had most of the population wanting to separate altogether.

The Spanish should have let the referendum take place and then make their claim afterwards that it was not valid. Instead, this heavy-handed approach with images of women getting dragged by the hair, elderly men being aggressively man-handled, fire fighters getting battered is a PR disaster now and for the forseeable future. It's a level of idiocy that's hard to fathom.

I don't for a minute think they are stupid. They need a violent independence movement and they are trying to provoke one.
The rest of Spain should be very angry about that because it is they who will suffer.