Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread II

MadYaker · 01-10-2017 09:35PM

Celticfire wrote: »

So why as Mayor has she not participated in any meeting with FEMA?

How do you know she hasn't? I would imagine it's pretty difficult for her to get around Puerto Rico considering the state of the place. Looking at her twitter she seems to be spending most of her time in hospitals and aid shelters. She isn't a doctor, the best thing she can do to help is try and use her position to draw as much attention to the situation as she can.

Manic Moran · 01-10-2017 10:09PM

In fairness, in an interview she has said that she has spoken to FEMA on the 'phone, and has sent delegates to the in-person meetings. She did not say that she ever attended one, though one must ask if it is necessary for her to do so if her staffers are competent.

ABC reporter asked the White House about it. https://mobile.twitter.com/KFaulders/status/914115959874572288

The military head of the operation comments on the status: The issue is they have to get the roads open to get to the truck drivers, so they can get to the ports and distribute everything:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/us-military-on-puerto-rico-the-problem-is-distribution_us_59ce5906e4b0f3c468060dee

SkepticQuark · 01-10-2017 10:51PM

So since a certain someone thinks The Daily Caller is now a totally acceptable source of honest news and sources here is an apparently leaked memo leaked to an outlet called Axios (haven't heard of them personally) updating members of Trump's administration on Puerto Rico.

https://www.axios.com/full-text-white-houses-tom-bossert-update-on-puerto-rico-2491599603.html

The best part of it for me if it's true: "The storm caused these problems, not our response to it."

Leroy42 · 01-10-2017 10:53PM

So yet again we are back to blaming the mayor of a small city for the entire problems in PR. Even if she was at her private gold course all weekend, only taking time to make some attacking tweets, so what?

Are you really suggesting that she is lying? Are you saying that enough aid is being sent? Remember that even Trump has acknowledged that enough hasn't been done, except of course that its not his fault but rather that PR is an Island in a big ocean and that there are no roads to it?

Are you really suggesting that i the midst of the worst hurricane to hit the island in 90 years, and despite the positive view of how both Texas and Florida were handled, that the democrat took this woman aside and told her to lie in order to make a president, for which she cannot vote, look bad? And that all the other commentators that have made similar comments are also lying.

And remember, even Trump has acknowledged that there is problems with getting aid there, so at the very least the aid cannot, per Trump, be the level they wished it would be at.

Christy42 · 01-10-2017 11:01PM

I like as soon as Trump criticises someone randomly a hoard of people obviously start trying to dig/make something up to try and retroactively justify Trump being such a horrific person.

backspin. · 01-10-2017 11:07PM

Trump is getting a great reception at the Presidents Cup golf in New York. Loads of cheers, all the players queuing to shake his hand. No booing. Maybe he isn't as unpopular among ordinary people after all. You'd be forgiven for thinking he was universally despised in America by the media. We don't really get many chances to gauge what people really think of him. This was one.

frag420 · 01-10-2017 11:25PM

Probably because he is surrounded by rich white men(now that Tiger Woods has gone to shît), they are not really ordinary folk now are they!?

Let's see how many shake his hands at the next basketball or football game

backspin. wrote: »

Trump is getting a great reception at the Presidents Cup golf in New York. Loads of cheers, all the players queuing to shake his hand. No booing. Maybe he isn't as unpopular among ordinary people after all. You'd be forgiven for thinking he was universally despised in America by the media. We don't really get many chances to gauge what people really think of him. This was one.

SkepticQuark · 01-10-2017 11:25PM

backspin. wrote: »

Trump is getting a great reception at the Presidents Cup golf in New York. Loads of cheers, all the players queuing to shake his hand. No booing. Maybe he isn't as unpopular among ordinary people after all. You'd be forgiven for thinking he was universally despised in America by the media. We don't really get many chances to gauge what people really think of him. This was one.

The small crowds at rallies are one, opinion polling is another. Let's not forget this is also someone who got his supporters in Poland sent on buses to his speech and seems to refuse to go to places where he won't be fawned over.

It all looks great if you look through the lens they want you to see it through, David Cameron and his talk in a big empty shed is a perfect example.

Also if he was so universally popular, where were the people on January 20th?

Manic Moran · 01-10-2017 11:56PM

Are you saying that enough aid is being sent?

Apparently, yes.

Everyone is saying that the stuff which is required is getting to PR. The problem is getting it from the ports and airports to the rest of the island. For that, they are dependent on the island's internal distribution system, which is still broken until all those roads get opened, presumably one roadblock at a time. See the military interview I just linked to above, or http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/27/us/puerto-rico-aid-problem/index.html

backspin. · 01-10-2017 11:58PM

frag420 wrote: »

Probably because he is surrounded by rich white men(now that Tiger Woods has gone to shît), they are not really ordinary folk now are they!?

Let's see how many shake his hands at the next basketball or football game

The people at that event would be everything from working class pay as you play golfers right up to rich exclusive club golfers. Yes it was a fairly white crowd. But there were no boos at all. Plenty of cheering. I expected him to be snubbed by players and booed by the crowd. He wasn't. He is not as hated as the media would like you to believe.

Leroy42 · 02-10-2017 12:07AM

Manic Moran wrote: »

Apparently, yes.

Everyone is saying that the stuff which is required is getting to PR. The problem is getting it from the ports and airports to the rest of the island. For that, they are dependent on the island's internal distribution system, which is still broken until all those roads get opened, presumably one roadblock at a time. See the military interview I just linked to above, or http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/27/us/puerto-rico-aid-problem/index.html

So what is Trump talking about saying that its an island etc etc. Are you just dismissing what he himself is actually saying?

You also must know, that it is FEMA;s job to get over the difficulties. In effect what you are saying is that Trump managed to do well in Texas and Florida because things were easier and now its more difficult he struggles?

MadYaker · 02-10-2017 12:46AM

backspin. wrote: »

The people at that event would be everything from working class pay as you play golfers right up to rich exclusive club golfers. Yes it was a fairly white crowd. But there were no boos at all. Plenty of cheering. I expected him to be snubbed by players and booed by the crowd. He wasn't. He is not as hated as the media would like you to believe.

Working class people at a golf course in New York? Get real. I just checked the website. The cheapest tickets I could find were $140. http://www.ticketmaster.com/presidents-cup-jersey-city-new-jersey-10-01-2017/event/000050F9762210D4?artistid=1333236&majorcatid=10004&minorcatid=30#efeat4211

Even if it wasn't blatantly obvious that it's an event for rich white men you're taking a small amount of people at a golf course as a genuine representative of the entirety of the 300 million+ people that live in the US. Do I need to explain to you how illogical that is?

I have yet to see any media outlets going on about how hated Trump is, at least no reputable ones anyway. He does however have very low approval ratings, the lowest I think, for any president at this stage of his first term http://www.ticketmaster.com/presidents-cup-jersey-city-new-jersey-10-01-2017/event/000050F9762210D4?artistid=1333236&majorcatid=10004&minorcatid=30#efeat4211

That website combines poll results, both conservative and liberal. he isn't popular.

backspin. · 02-10-2017 01:02AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadYaker View Post
Working class people at a golf course in New York? Get real. I just checked the website. The cheapest tickets I could find were $140. http://www.ticketmaster.com/presiden...d=30#efeat4211

Even if it wasn't blatantly obvious that it's an event for rich white men you're taking a small amount of people at a golf course as a genuine representative of the entirety of the 300 million+ people that live in the US. Do I need to explain to you how illogical that is?

I have yet to see any media outlets going on about how hated Trump is, at least no reputable ones anyway. He does however have very low approval ratings, the lowest I think, for any president at this stage of his first term http://www.ticketmaster.com/presiden...d=30#efeat4211

That website combines poll results, both conservative and liberal. he isn't popular.
Would he be less or more popular among white working class Americans. Aren't those the people who are supposed to have got him elected?

How would he be received at a NASCAR race in the mid west or the south?

Manic Moran · 02-10-2017 03:55AM

Leroy42 wrote: »

Are you just dismissing what he himself is actually saying?

Well... yes. Doesn't everyone?

You also must know, that it is FEMA;s job to get over the difficulties. In effect what you are saying is that Trump managed to do well in Texas and Florida because things were easier and now its more difficult he struggles?

I'm not saying anything about Trump. I'm saying that FEMA and the military has apparently gotten supplies to the island, and that the supplies are not yet getting to where they need to go because the road network is a mess. Since nobody is complaining about a lack of road clearing equipment or personnel, and everyone is saying 'This will simply take however long it takes', this whole business about Trump and Cruz is, frankly, a red herring.

Wife's cousin just asked us to send her a generator to keep her fridge running. She's a nurse, her hospital is operating, but power hasn't been restored to her village yet. "Maybe you had better let us know how you expect this thing to get to you, because everything we're hearing indicates that the electricity is more likely to get restored than for Fed Ex to deliver one of those things"

Roanmore · 02-10-2017 07:26AM

backspin. wrote: »

The people at that event would be everything from working class pay as you play golfers right up to rich exclusive club golfers. Yes it was a fairly white crowd. But there were no boos at all. Plenty of cheering. I expected him to be snubbed by players and booed by the crowd. He wasn't. He is not as hated as the media would like you to believe.

I think there was a graph a few pages back which showed golf to be the most Republican leaning sport, no reason for the players to snub him, they are his constituency.
At the height of the bailout here Brian Cowen was still being cheered by FF supporters wherever he went, how did the election work out for him?

Zubeneschamali · 02-10-2017 09:10AM

Roanmore wrote: »

I think there was a graph a few pages back which showed golf to be the most Republican leaning sport

Also overwhelmingly white.

Billy86 · 02-10-2017 09:48AM

Celticfire wrote: »

So it seems that when San Juan Mayor Carmen Yulin Cruz has been busy spending her time getting t shirts and hats printed up (a remarkable feat considering the lack of power on the island) she hasn't bothered participating in any meeting with FEMA or other federal agencies.

If anyone is curious where this story is from as a link wasn't given, it is Tucker Carlon's Daily Caller.

rossie1977 · 02-10-2017 11:28AM

Roanmore wrote: »

I think there was a graph a few pages back which showed golf to be the most Republican leaning sport, no reason for the players to snub him, they are his constituency.
At the height of the bailout here Brian Cowen was still being cheered by FF supporters wherever he went, how did the election work out for him?

That's the graph I posted. Golf fans are the most leaning Republican and the most likely to vote

Samaris · 02-10-2017 11:32AM

Billy86 wrote: »

If anyone is curious where this story is from as a link wasn't given, it is Tucker Carlon's Daily Caller.

Doesn't surprise me. Trump will use anything he can to have a go at someone who dared call him out, that is to be expected. Unfortunately, his supporters will also turn on whoever he calls out and to hell if the person is coping with a natural disaster (and a national disaster too).

It's disgusting, petty, pathetic...but it keeps happening.

But hey, Trump dedicated a golf tournament cup he was awarding to the victims of Puerto Rico, so that solves everything.

The response was poorly handled. Started off well, faltered badly because there was no follow-through from the administration. Trump's main contribution was stumbling over why the Jones Act wasn't waived ("there were many ..uh..in shipping that didn't want it lifted" - mild paraphrasing for memory) and making digs at the state of PR before the storm hit. Oh, and now having a go at the mayor for making him look bad by begging for help for her people.

Some leader. Some followers.

Zubeneschamali · 02-10-2017 11:41AM

Charts on income and ethnicity of fans here.

The only fans more likely than a golf crowd to cheer Trump are Hockey fans, who are even whiter and wealthier. i wonder how much Tiger affected these numbers?

Hande hoche! · 02-10-2017 11:54AM

Samaris wrote: »

Doesn't surprise me. Trump will use anything he can to have a go at someone who dared call him out, that is to be expected. Unfortunately, his supporters will also turn on whoever he calls out and to hell if the person is coping with a natural disaster (and a national disaster too).

It's disgusting, petty, pathetic...but it keeps happening.

But hey, Trump dedicated a golf tournament cup he was awarding to the victims of Puerto Rico, so that solves everything.

The response was poorly handled. Started off well, faltered badly because there was no follow-through from the administration. Trump's main contribution was stumbling over why the Jones Act wasn't waived ("there were many ..uh..in shipping that didn't want it lifted" - mild paraphrasing for memory) and making digs at the state of PR before the storm hit. Oh, and now having a go at the mayor for making him look bad by begging for help for her people.

Some leader. Some followers.

It's particularly jarring given his reasonable (by low standards) response to Florida and Texas.

MadYaker · 02-10-2017 12:18PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Charts on income and ethnicity of fans here.

The only fans more likely than a golf crowd to cheer Trump are Hockey fans, who are even whiter and wealthier. i wonder how much Tiger affected these numbers?

That's interesting. I would have thought hockey would be a bit more working class. But I suppose the white working class voted for him in large numbers too.

Captain_Crash · 02-10-2017 12:31PM

MadYaker wrote: »

That's interesting. I would have thought hockey would be a bit more working class. But I suppose the white working class voted for him in large numbers too.

I often find there is a correlation of class vs cost of equipment in sport...

not many public schools play rugby here, due to the cost of the equipment... hence generally only people who attend private school grow up playing/supporting it, same with golf. Clubs and membership aren't cheap so generally the people who play frequently are of well means and so on.

Again, this is just something I've noticed over the years and I could be way way off the mark. But looking at Hockey and Golf both being expensive sports to play, where as Basketball is cheap and has a large population of "less well off" people playing. Football (American kind) and Nascar seem to be the exceptions

VinLieger · 02-10-2017 01:58PM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

not many public schools play rugby here, due to the cost of the equipment...

Sorry this is completely offtopic but i had to ask this

Ehh what cost of what equipment is there in Rugby compared to soccer and GAA? There's 1 piece of optional padding and a gumshield required that's not required for soccer or GAA, id hardly call it an economic blocker for people to get involved...... sure a hurl and a helmet probably cost about the same

alchemist33 · 02-10-2017 02:11PM

Trump's reaction to the Las Vegas massacre will be interesting. So far he's just made one tweet, giving his "warmest condolences", which is a novel turn of phrase.

Igotadose · 02-10-2017 02:33PM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

I often find there is a correlation of class vs cost of equipment in sport...

not many public schools play rugby here, due to the cost of the equipment... hence generally only people who attend private school grow up playing/supporting it, same with golf. Clubs and membership aren't cheap so generally the people who play frequently are of well means and so on.

Again, this is just something I've noticed over the years and I could be way way off the mark. But looking at Hockey and Golf both being expensive sports to play, where as Basketball is cheap and has a large population of "less well off" people playing. Football (American kind) and Nascar seem to be the exceptions

I recall golf teams at the HS level 40+ years ago when I attended, so not quite 'only private schools.' More likely there, though, and likely that the players will have had more training and better opportunities due to wealthier upbringings.

As for rugby, I think the issue there with US sports is the insurance. Hockey is amazingly expensive for kids, chatted with a lad once who showed me a picture of his early-teenaged son who was mad for hockey and played goalie. Typical "good" equipment for a goalie at that age was like $3000. This was probably 10 years ago, too.

Water John · 02-10-2017 02:45PM

Very sad at that awful massacare. The guy had 12 rifles!!!

Captain_Crash · 02-10-2017 03:55PM

VinLieger wrote: »

Sorry this is completely offtopic but i had to ask this

Ehh what cost of what equipment is there in Rugby compared to soccer and GAA? There's 1 piece of optional padding and a gumshield required that's not required for soccer or GAA, id hardly call it an economic blocker for people to get involved...... sure a hurl and a helmet probably cost about the same

As you said, lets not get too off topic, but its not so much the gear you wear when playing, its training equipment that the school/club has to provide. The cost of all the tackle bags that need regular replacing, pads on the posts, scrum machines (which run into the 1000's), grounds keeping which needs more attention plus insurance which is higher. Like I said, I have no data to back it up, its just something I've noticed and mused at in the past (and have seen the amount of money my club has spent in the past 5 years, and consider by subs to be cheap in comparison).

Manic Moran · 02-10-2017 04:28PM

Can't say Trump's speech was the best one I've ever heard. That said, given the utter absence of any information to give, there also wasn't much he could say other than "Federal departments are helping out". Two things did strike me. One was all the praying he's apparently doing, which I'm sure is useful, and also that the wounded and bereaved have our support. What level of tangible support this will be, I am curious to see.

everlast75 · 02-10-2017 04:34PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

Can't say Trump's speech was the best one I've ever heard. That said, given the utter absence of any information to give, there also wasn't much he could say other than "Federal departments are helping out". Two things did strike me. One was all the praying he's apparently doing, which I'm sure is useful, and also that the wounded and bereaved have our support. What level of tangible support this will be, I am curious to see.

To be fair - he has no problem giving speeches with no information when it suits his narrative.

The reason he is careful this time is because the suspect was white and the focus will be on the NRA.

Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread II

Comments