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The lonely and often cruel world of porn

2456

Comments

  • #32
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,357 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Akrasia wrote: »
    Times have changed though. Sex used to carry the very real risk of pregnancy and disease. Now we have reliable contraception and we can test for diseases.

    Also, a woman's virginity was the property of her father. Any sex outside of marriage was considered to be a scandal, so even intimate consensual sex between a couple in the privacy of their own bedroom was a shameful act a lot of the time

    Not to mention the social stigma and shame associated with any kind of homosexual act that is only starting to be lifted as we emerge from the jackboot of organised religion and the suppression of humanity in deference scripture and patriarchy
    Ah here, jackboots of god and the patriarchy makes an entrance? :pac: Man, that reads like some social "sciences" take on history and the history of culture. It is and was far more complex than that reading of things. And no, intimate consensual sex between a couple in the privacy of their own bedroom wasn't seen as a shameful act in the vast majority of cases. If anything it was celebrated.

    Then again you did make a comparison to a failed sports person and porn, so I dunno where to go with that TBH.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #33
    Harika
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,658 ✭✭✭Harika


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    Wibbs is talking about sex. Not being naked.

    Yeah, still close also look at the tons of amateurs those produce porn and don't have an issue with that. While I understand that you wouldn't do it, fair enough, tons of people have no issues with that either for free or money outside of the industry.


  • #34
    Day Lewin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,000 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    Um, I have to disagree with the OP>
    I am acquainted with a small number of people who supplement their incomes by doing on-cam work or by making small erotic movies for sale. None are prostitutes in even the remotest way. None are lonely, either.

    of course, junkies will do anything to get a fix - whether it is prostitution, posing for commercial porn, breaking into houses -- anything, really. Porn sells well, of course. No surprise that the movie-makers don't care much about the actors. (But that's widespread across all showbiz. AND sport as mentioned above)

    So, I just think the OP is wrong about this. Sure, some porn actors are sad people. And no doubt the makers of porn will be ruthless. But some of everyones are sad people. Caveat emptor!


  • #35
    Harika
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,658 ✭✭✭Harika


    Wibbs wrote: »
    And no, intimate consensual sex between a couple in the privacy of their own bedroom wasn't seen as a shameful act in the vast majority of cases. If anything it was celebrated.
    .

    There are cultures still today where married couples will do everything to avoid being seeing naked in front of their partners. Orthodox Jews eg
    And in Europa sex was seen as sinful and wrong if no child was conceived. Doesn't sound like a celebration to me


  • #36
    Collie D
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,535 ✭✭✭✭Collie D


    fryup wrote: »
    pornography is for sad bastards who can't get a girlfriend

    What about the women who watch it?


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  • #37
    John_D80
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,539 ✭✭✭John_D80


    tedpan wrote: »
    This is the case for the majority of the public.. Whether it's illegal, prescription or alcohol, most don't like to admit it, everybody turns to drugs for comfort.

    No they don't. The overwhelming majority of people do not rely on any form of drugs for comfort.


  • #38
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    Porn is a job that girls can absolutely make the best of if they choose to do so.

    There are of course many hard luck stories (usually the cocaine fiends) but there's also the ones that became millionaires and a bunch that used the cash they earned to put themselves through collage.

    Lots of women now directing and producing porn now also:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIoKDa032fw



    The porn industry is far from the sinkhole many people (the ones with agendas) would have us all believe it to be.


  • #39
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,888 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Ah here, jackboots of god and the patriarchy makes an entrance? :pac: Man, that reads like some social "sciences" take on history and the history of culture. It is and was far more complex than that reading of things. And no, intimate consensual sex between a couple in the privacy of their own bedroom wasn't seen as a shameful act in the vast majority of cases. If anything it was celebrated.
    I'm not a fan of the couch sociology language either, but it was a shortcut to point out that attitudes to sex have changed enormously in one or two generations. In Ireland, not so long ago, living in sin was a very real stigma and a lot of people emigrated rather than having to deal with the valley of the squinting windows.
    Then again you did make a comparison to a failed sports person and porn, so I dunno where to go with that TBH.
    They're not exactly the same, but the title of this thread is the lonely and often cruel world of porn.
    There could be a similar thread called the lonely and often cruel world of professional sport.

    Both target youth and young people are lured in with the promise of wealth and fame. There are plane loads of young people flown to the academies of all the soccer clubs and only a small percentage are ever chosen. It's the same with sports in American colleges and high schools, these kids are hugely exploited when they are free labour, but only a fraction of a percent are ever drafted into the NBA or NFL, and of those, a lot of them never make it past journeyman status, or get injured early and dropped. When these players retire, only a small percentage of them can continue as coaches or pundits, the rest are dropped into the workforce with few transferable skills.

    There are differences in the negative social attitude towards sex/porn and the veneration of elite sports, but there is an awful lot of exploitation in professional sports and you could fill books with individual stories of people who were sports stars in school, who never made it professional and ended up working for minimum wage with drug and alcohol problems later in life

    Ban billionaires



  • #40
    kupus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,151 ✭✭✭kupus


    Harika wrote: »
    Replace porn stars with pop stars and porn industry with music industry and you have the same for a different profession. Or nearly every glamour profession.

    Replace the word porn and pop with "every industry" in your sentence and you got it bang on,

    You got to whore yourself out if you want to get ahead.


  • #41
    Harika
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,658 ✭✭✭Harika


    kupus wrote: »
    Replace the word porn and pop with "every industry" in your sentence and you got it bang on,

    You got to whore yourself out if you want to get ahead.

    I agree but wanted to avoid the discussion if a cashier is as much exploited as a porn star.


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  • #42
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,397 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Day Lewin wrote: »
    Um, I have to disagree with the OP>
    I am acquainted with a small number of people who supplement their incomes by doing on-cam work or by making small erotic movies for sale. None are prostitutes in even the remotest way.

    No, they are in fact prostitutes, by the very definition of the word.
    Prostitute: a person, in particular a woman, who engages in sexual activity for payment.

    Your acquaintances engage in sexual activity for payment, they are prostitutes.


  • #43
    Erik Shin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,721 ✭✭✭Erik Shin


    bucketybuck wrote: »
    No, they are in fact prostitutes, by the very definition of the word.



    Your acquaintances engage in sexual activity for payment, they are prostitutes.

    Ever tried to shag a webcam?


  • #44
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,357 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Erik Shin wrote: »
    Ever tried to shag a webcam?
    You might get unsavoury answers to that question. :D

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #45
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,888 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Erik Shin wrote: »
    Ever tried to shag a webcam?
    Yes, and you would too if you had this sexy beast, sitting there, begging for it

    mlxgrqibrfnice2h1b8l.jpg

    Ban billionaires



  • #46
    Spider Web
    Closed Accounts Posts: 386 ✭✭Spider Web


    blue note wrote: »
    Oddly, I thought if anything you'd be accused of being a leftie. That the right would defend people's choice to go into the industry and the left would say it's a sexist industry that preys upon vulnerable women.

    An industry where women are paid to have sex is very much not left wing. Back in the day however what a woman chooses to do with her body, choosing to have sex as she pleases would very much have been a liberal idea.

    Funny how times change.
    I was thinking the same. Anti porn views are definitely not always rightwing. Nor always leftwing. Nor either.

    It depends on the type of porn but the one with the women being shouted at and having their hair pulled... Christ, it's disturbing in my opinion. I'm not pushing an agenda, it's just my personal view. Really hardcore porn - watersports and DVDA and bukkake etc... just hideous in my opinion.

    The Louis Theroux documentaries are eye opening - and they focus on how it can mess up the men too, not only the women.

    That said, there are plenty of people who are just fine with working in the hardcore porn industry, but such a depiction of sex is very dark to me.

    People who consume such porn can get defensive over criticisms of it, because, no doubt, they feel a sense of being accused of supporting something that damages people and they would never ordinarily hurt a woman. That's understandable but don't take it personally - plenty of people in the hardcore industry don't feel abused anyway. But examination of it, and concluding some negatives, is not unfair.

    I don't think music and sport are always comparable (although they can be) because they don't involve selling sex.


  • #47
    smurgen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    Couldn't care less about them.i also wonder why we put so much thought into the welfare of people making sub optimal lifestyle decisions while the plight of the average joe,9-5 worker gets largely ignored.the type of person that gets involved in these low effort,quick money industries are the same type of person that moves drugs for dealers etc. They for the most part wave their cash in the face and looks down their nose at average joes.i don't give a ****e when it all comes a cropper for them.


  • #48
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,357 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Harika wrote: »
    There are cultures still today where married couples will do everything to avoid being seeing naked in front of their partners. Orthodox Jews eg
    There are always outliers in human cultures. The vast majority do not feel, or act like this. In Islam where public displays of skin for both genders is restrictive compared to the west, but behind closed doors and especially in the marriage bed, no such restrictions are in play. It is encouraged for men and women to revel in each other's sexuality.
    And in Europa sex was seen as sinful and wrong if no child was conceived.
    Well kinda. It was oft seen as "sinful" if conception wasn't the ultimate aim, but the act itself was generally seen as a bonding between husband and wife. Again outside of a few outliers. Though I would agree that the European importation of the aforementioned Judaic thought on the matter certainly didn't help things. Some church fathers and thinkers were dead set against the whole thing and saw any sexual congress, even one resulting in kids as a sinful thing. Augustine of Hippo for example was beyond prudish on the matter, though he was one of those who saw sin bloody everywhere. Didn't stop him having a twenty year long affair and kid with a "low born" woman mind you. He thinks like the reformed whore.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #49
    corner of hells
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,439 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    frag420 wrote: »
    I heard of one chap who has to drive a black taxi just to make ends meet...a cruel world indeed!!

    I believe lots of plumbers make ends meet stating in porn too.


  • #50
    Pac1Man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,407 ✭✭✭Pac1Man


    I think it's disgraceful. It's been in the public's conscience for 30-40 years now but still nobody has even attempted to rectify it.

    How can so many clean looking boilers keep breaking down all across Ireland and the UK seemingly just out of warranty?


  • #51
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,219 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    smurgen wrote: »
    Couldn't care less about them.i also wonder why we put so much thought into the welfare of people making sub optimal lifestyle decisions while the plight of the average joe,9-5 worker gets largely ignored.the type of person that gets involved in these low effort,quick money industries are the same type of person that moves drugs for dealers etc. They for the most part wave their cash in the face and looks down their nose at average joes.i don't give a ****e when it all comes a cropper for them.


    I'm not sure porn performers can be equated with drug dealers. Your post paints a picture of a person devoid of empathy. Not everyone comes from an equal place in terms of circumstances, people sometimes make sub-optimal decisions, and sometimes the consequences are tougher than ever foreseen.

    People are human, they screw up, it doesn't mean they don't deserve sympathy, empathy, or help.

    I'm not a fan of the porn industry generally, though I know many performers make informed decisions to get into the industry but you can never really know if the people you're watching at any given time are included in that group, or if their decision to be there is influenced by something deeper, more destructive, or desperate.


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  • #52
    lazybones32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    Porn is a job that girls can absolutely make the best of if they choose to do so.

    There are of course many hard luck stories (usually the cocaine fiends) but there's also the ones that used the cash they earned to put themselves through collage.

    Lots of women now directing and producing porn now also:


    The porn industry is far from the sinkhole many people (the ones with agendas) would have us all believe it to be.

    "Buttman", actor, producer and distributor of porn had a documentary-style show made about him years ago, which was shown on Bravo. A teenage girl sought an industry introduction but the same girl was the daughter of someone he knew, so he took her to the lower budget studio productions, to show her that the glitz, glamour and fancy sets aren't the norm but the exception. She was brought to a motel room where 2 or 3 guys were going to plough some woman and it was being recorded on a hand-held camera.


  • #53
    123shooter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 964 ✭✭✭123shooter


    fryup wrote: »
    pornography is for sad bastards who can't get a girlfriend

    I've had a girlfriend for over 30 years and watched porn in all that time........I have also been called a bastard throughout that time also but never sad, watching porn makes me happy and short sighted.


  • #54
    123shooter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 964 ✭✭✭123shooter


    I think some people in Ireland are just stuck in a moralistic time warp where they become obsessed and think they should have a view on other peoples sex lives.


  • #55
    ArchXStanton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭ArchXStanton


    It's worse than the Rap music industry for claiming victims..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBx4lgieMAs


  • #56
    Spider Web
    Closed Accounts Posts: 386 ✭✭Spider Web


    123shooter wrote: »
    I think some people in Ireland are just stuck in a moralistic time warp where they become obsessed and think they should have a view on other peoples sex lives.
    The porn industry is being discussed, not the above.

    A dislike of porn doesn't necessarily mean the above at all anyway. It's not even a commentary on other people's sex lives, it's a commentary on an industry/depiction of sex on film.


  • #57
    123shooter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 964 ✭✭✭123shooter


    Spider Web wrote: »
    The porn industry is being discussed, not the above.

    A dislike of porn doesn't necessarily mean the above at all anyway. It's not even a commentary on other people's sex lives, it's a commentary on an industry/depiction of sex on film.

    In a way I agree........but porn is always a part of peoples lives whether as a couple or as a single user/watcher.

    As regards the sex/porn industry........it is a fading business because today most porn is 'home made' as part of peoples sex lives...........and amateurs or people not in the porn industry you refer too make money or become full time porn stars without being part of the porn industry you refer too..........so the porn industry has branched off in to another direction where the housewife/girlfriend/single person can make their own porn and sell the films etc.

    I see no problem with it and what people do with their own bodies and what they do to make money is entirely up to them and none of anybody else's business. Consenting adults and all that.


  • #58
    philstar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭philstar


    yes i look at it ...but there's no getting away from the fact that porn as an industry is sleazy, full of sleazy creepy people


  • #59
    Rumpy Pumpy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭Rumpy Pumpy


    There was an extremely grim documentary released a few years back about the industry. Women were coming into the scene and being spat out a few months later with a drug habit and a prolapsed anus. It was all about churn and 'new talent'. The directors and some of the male actors were sociopathic individuals and producing extremely disturbing pornography for a misogynistic online audience looking for nastier kicks. Everyone from the viewer to the young women were desensitised to what was happening.

    It was a very difficult watch.


  • #60
    123shooter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 964 ✭✭✭123shooter


    philstar wrote: »
    yes i look at it ...but there's no getting away from the fact that porn as an industry is sleazy, full of sleazy creepy people

    Life is full of sleazy people. Look at governments and you will find the worse kind. Porn probably has no more than any other kind of life.

    As regards tv docu's on such..............It ain't gonna be very watchable if they can't find some horror show or sleazy characters to fill the 60 minutes.


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  • #61
    123shooter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 964 ✭✭✭123shooter


    Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »
    There was an extremely grim documentary released a few years back about the industry. Women were coming into the scene and being spat out a few months later with a drug habit and a prolapsed anus. It was all about churn and 'new talent'. The directors and some of the male actors were sociopathic individuals and producing extremely disturbing pornography for a misogynistic online audience looking for nastier kicks. Everyone from the viewer to the young women were desensitised to what was happening.

    It was a very difficult watch.

    I think I saw that........was it about 15 - 17 years ago with a very nasty individual who liked to hurt people and an English girl who met every bad person in America?

    What I have seen one side of the porn industry is totally different now.


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