Isn't multiculturalism great...

Benjamin Buttons · 12-09-2017 07:28PM

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

I was walking through the park in Carlow a few weeks ago when I saw a Chinese lad wearing one of those breathing masks you see everyone wearing in some smog filled Chinese city like Beijing.

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Sensible lad. If I had to spend time in Carlow I would do the same.

Great Bunch keep him.:P

Steady, nothing wrong whatsoever with Carlow or its people. In fact there are some remarkable similarities between Beijing and Carlow, so it's no surprise to me that a Chinese tourist confused one with the other, hence the mask.
Alternatively, he might well have been a native barrowsider of Chinese origin indulging himself in that playful game that most Carlow people have played in their childhood: 'Let's pretend that we're somewhere else, anywhere else but here'.
A great bunch of lads though, and always up for the craic.

12-09-2017 09:16PM

Brian? wrote: »

It was meant as derogatory of extreme right wing Catholics.

What exactly is your beef here? Are you trying to say Catholics are open to attack on boards and Muslims are not? If so, you be proved my point nicely. There are hundreds of threads on boards, this one included, where Muslims are portrayed as rapists.

Mother and baby homes. I'll leave that there.

Exactly. There are plenty of extreme right wingers who are not Catholic, though.
Just as there were non-Catholic Mother and Baby homes, and the most extreme right wing Catholic would generally condemn those homes unreservedly.

So, my beef is, why single out the Catholics, and compare only them to Muslim (or even some Muslim) teachings on LGBT, or Women's rights,since the teachings are not comparable?

You made a snide comment, then tried passing it off as tongue in cheek, and have not acknowledged that your comment is as bigoted toward Catholics as comments that suggest all Muslims are rapists - and you don't even see it.

Brian? · 12-09-2017 09:21PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Exactly. There are plenty of extreme right wingers who are not Catholic, though.
Just as there were non-Catholic Mother and Baby homes, and the most extreme right wing Catholic would generally condemn those homes unreservedly.

So, my beef is, why single out the Catholics, and compare only them to Muslim (or even some Muslim) teachings on LGBT, or Women's rights,since the teachings are not comparable?

You made a snide comment, then tried passing it off as tongue in cheek, and have not acknowledged that your comment is as bigoted toward Catholics as comments that suggest all Muslims are rapists - and you don't even see it.

You're bending over backwards to be offended.

I derided extreme Catholics, not all Catholics. They're a horror bunch, but they're home grown so they get a pass from those decrying the misogyny of Muslims.

Clearly, some Muslims are complete gowlbags. But let's avoid generalisation shall we.

Noel82 · 12-09-2017 10:44PM

Brian? wrote: »

You're bending over backwards to be offended.

I derided extreme Catholics, not all Catholics. They're a horror bunch, but they're home grown so they get a pass from those decrying the misogyny of Muslims.

Clearly, some Muslims are complete gowlbags. But let's avoid generalisation shall we.

What generalization? There is widespread radical beliefs throughout the Muslim community worldwide that is a majority.

Separate topic but it's part of it. So called Multiculturalism hasn't worked in many European countries, Merkel herself has admitted this.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/745147/million-immigrants-Germany-few-find-jobs-migrant-crisis

ONLY 34,000 refugees out of 1.2 million who have arrived in Germany over the past two years have managed to get a job

marcus001 · 12-09-2017 11:53PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

That's a matter of individual opinion though. HP's argument consists of anything which doesn't conform to his standards isn't welcome in our country, yet while he laments authoritarianism, he wants to substitute it with authoritarianism which is consistent with his values!

Our nations values aren't authoritarian in nature. We don't need to be authoritarian in enforcing our own values on ourselves because it comes naturally to us. I think his point is that those to whom it doesn't come naturally shouldn't be allowed into our society. Broadly I agree, but find it difficult to come up with a policy method of implementing that.

rightgirl · 12-09-2017 11:57PM

ireland should try to be more like the scandanavians social policy, ie sweden

edit thats a joke

Ulysses Gaze · 12-09-2017 11:58PM

rightgirl wrote: »

ireland should try to be more like the scandanavians social policy, ie sweden

Ulysses Gaze · 13-09-2017 12:00AM

rightgirl wrote: »

ireland should try to be more like the scandanavians social policy, ie sweden

edit thats a joke

Hence the Arnie laughing post

gitzy16v · 13-09-2017 02:03AM

..

FraR · 13-09-2017 03:33AM

rightgirl wrote: »

ireland should try to be more like the scandanavians social policy, ie sweden

edit thats a joke

Hearing what's in the news there at the moment, no thanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hmrbLIzLZs

Jim Bob Scratcher · 13-09-2017 04:27AM

FraR wrote: »

Hearing what's in the news there at the moment, no thanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hmrbLIzLZs

Beautiful country is being ruined. That's what happens when extreme lefties are in power.

Geuze · 13-09-2017 12:31PM

Pure tashte wrote: »

Are Turkish barbers not renowned for their craft?

Going by your logic, why are there so many Chinese chefs working in Chinese restaurants? Couldn't Irish chefs cook the same food?

Yes they could.

Any yes, given that we have so many inactive adults, we should have tighter restriction on non-EU workers.

Geuze · 13-09-2017 12:33PM

Brian? wrote: »

They're coming here legally. I wouldn't fancy their chances setting up a shop if they weren't. I suspect many are German citizens. There are huge Turkish populations around Europe, especially Germany. Great kebabs in Berlin.

That might explain it, ok.

But otherwise, I can't see any reason to allow Turkish barbers into the country.

We're hardly short of barbers.

The_Kew_Tour · 13-09-2017 12:36PM

Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »

Beautiful country is being ruined. That's what happens when extreme lefties are in power.

Thats just sad. What can you say to that.

whisky_galore · 13-09-2017 12:42PM

Geuze wrote: »

Given that Turkey aren't in the EU, how are Turkish barbers getting into the country?

Given that we have hundreds of thousands of inactive adults not in the labour market, why are we allowing non-EU workers into the country?

[other than in very specific roles]

Loads of foreign nationals doing the jobs that the natives won't bother with or think these roles are beneath them; waiting at tables, shop tills, cleaning, meat processing, hotels/hospitality, fishing industry.... etc

The_Kew_Tour · 13-09-2017 12:47PM

whisky_galore wrote: »

Loads of foreign nationals doing the jobs that the natives won't bother with or think these roles are beneath them; waiting at tables, shop tills, cleaning, meat processing, hotels/hospitality, fishing industry.... etc

I get a great kick out of that Theory that the Foreign Nationals are doing the Natives Jobs.

Worst Excuse Ever.

I have had a job since I was 11. I worked for 1.50 old Irish Punts when I first started. All my friends and everybody in my class of 21 had a job by 14.

It was different times back in late 90s I will admit but I worked in places where they replaced 18-21 yo part time staff with Foreign Staff.

My Brother is going College and thankfully has a job but most of his friends cant find part time work no more.

Of course we need certain skills and im quiet happy to see all walks of life, but this Native bashing is just a load of nonsense.

Will I Am Not · 13-09-2017 01:39PM

whisky_galore wrote: »

Loads of foreign nationals doing the jobs that the natives won't bother with or think these roles are beneath them; waiting at tables, shop tills, cleaning, meat processing, hotels/hospitality, fishing industry.... etc

Speaking of Turkish barbers...
There used to be 3 barbers in my town, 3 local men.
Now there are 6 with only one local, the rest foreign nationals. The local guy only recently reopened and I doubt he will stay open to be honest.

The guy I use calls out to my house now for the last 5 years because he can't afford the rates to keep a premises open, a premises he had open for 20 odd years.

Geuze · 13-09-2017 03:37PM

whisky_galore wrote: »

Loads of foreign nationals doing the jobs that the natives won't bother with or think these roles are beneath them; waiting at tables, shop tills, cleaning, meat processing, hotels/hospitality, fishing industry.... etc

If this is true, then we need to strongly encourage inactive EU workers to do these jobs, instead of letting able adults wallow on welfare.

Malayalam · 13-09-2017 05:14PM

Sorry, I stopped following this thread when it broke down into the usual divisive ruckus between the one's who damn everything to do with Islam and Muslims, and the one's who smugly dismiss people with any reservations about modern Islam as racists and Islamaphobes. Just too boring. I do believe that the opening post was not simply a depiction of a pleasant social outing, though it was that too, but rather a narrative full of subtext designed to provoke. Everything has subtext and it was not subtle in this case. I doubt it was unconscious either, though one can allow the benefit of the doubt.

I found this interesting, and thought to share it, since this is the currently active thread re all things immigration, and thus ultimately Islamic. The Islamic scholar, Yahya Cholil Staquf, from Indonesia, who is General Secretary of the Nahdlatul Ulama (NU) Supreme Council, the world’s largest Muslim organization has recently stated, as reported in Time magazine, that there is an inherent problem with orthodox Islam, and that Islam urgently needs to reform.

Edited extracts/quotes

There is a clear relationship between fundamentalism, terrorism, and the basic assumptions of Islamic orthodoxy. The West must stop ascribing any and all discussion of these issues to “Islamophobia.” Within the classical tradition, the relationship between Muslims and non-Muslims is assumed to be one of segregation and enmity. To the extent that Muslims adhere to this view of Islam, it renders them incapable of living harmoniously and peacefully within the multi-cultural, multi-religious societies of the 21st century. Any [fundamentalist] view of Islam positing the traditional norms of Islamic jurisprudence as absolute [should] be rejected out of hand as false. State laws [should] have precedence. Western politicians should stop telling us that fundamentalism and violence have nothing to do with traditional Islam. That is simply wrong..... there's an extreme left wing whose adherents reflexively denounce any and all talk about the connections between traditional Islam, fundamentalism and violence as de facto proof of Islamophobia. This must end. A problem that is not acknowledged cannot be solved.

Source - http://time.com/4930742/islam-terrorism-islamophobia-violence/

My purpose in posting this view from a respected Islamic scholar is to challenge the POV of dismissing people with ANY concerns about where Islam is going and particularly regarding Muslim integration into and segregation from our European societies as being bigots and racists. Of course most of the ordinary people who practice Islam are lovely and good, and it is very nice to have ethnic diversity and I welcome it; that does not mean we should in any way accommodate any ideas from any political theocracy. Integration, not multiculturalism as it is presently and widely understood, is the way forward.

(The OP as a person with a legal background will understand that a word is generally interpreted according to the present-day and most widely understood sense of its meaning. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiculturalism)

Grayson · 13-09-2017 05:29PM

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

I was walking through the park in Carlow a few weeks ago when I saw a Chinese lad wearing one of those breathing masks you see everyone wearing in some smog filled Chinese city like Beijing.

They wear them all over south east asia. However the thing is that except for some places they're not to protect against smog. You'll see it in the middle of a park or countryside.

It's to protect against the sun. Pale is seen as beautiful over there so they wear masks to stop the sun getting on their faces.

AlekSmart · 13-09-2017 05:32PM

Malayalam wrote: »

Sorry, I stopped following this thread when it broke down into the usual divisive ruckus between the one's who damn everything to do with Islam and Muslims, and the one's who smugly dismiss people with any reservations about modern Islam as racists and Islamaphobes. Just too boring. I do believe that the opening post was not simply a depiction of a pleasant social outing, though it was that too, but rather a narrative full of subtext designed to provoke. Everything has subtext and it was not subtle in this case. I doubt it was unconscious either, though one can allow the benefit of the doubt.

I found this interesting, and thought to share it, since this is the currently active thread re all things immigration, and thus ultimately Islamic. The Islamic scholar, Yahya Cholil Staquf, from Indonesia, who is General Secretary of the Nahdlatul Ulama (NU) Supreme Council, the world’s largest Muslim organization has recently stated, as reported in Time magazine, that there is an inherent problem with orthodox Islam, and that Islam urgently needs to reform.

Edited extracts/quotes

Source - http://time.com/4930742/islam-terrorism-islamophobia-violence/

My purpose in posting this view from a respected Islamic scholar is to challenge the POV of dismissing people with ANY concerns about where Islam is going and particularly regarding Muslim integration into and segregation from our European societies as being bigots and racists. Of course most of the ordinary people who practice Islam are lovely and good, and it is very nice to have ethnic diversity and I welcome it; that does not mean we should in any way accommodate any ideas from any political theocracy. Integration, not multiculturalism as it is presently and widely understood, is the way forward.

(The OP as a person with a legal background will understand that a word is generally interpreted according to the present-day and most widely understood sense of its meaning. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiculturalism)

Clear,consise and accurate post....well done

ancapailldorcha · 13-09-2017 05:43PM

Grayson wrote: »

They wear them all over south east asia. However the thing is that except for some places they're not to protect against smog. You'll see it in the middle of a park or countryside.

It's to protect against the sun. Pale is seen as beautiful over there so they wear masks to stop the sun getting on their faces.

It's nothing to do with the sun. It's to protect others from diseases they may be carrying.

dav3 · 13-09-2017 05:51PM

Malayalam wrote: »

...since this is the currently active thread re all things immigration, and thus ultimately Islamic.

Whoa, whoa there sockpuppet, calm yourself. When did this happen?

This is a thread about the OP having a lovely day out with different nationalities and cultures, nothing more.

fyfe79 · 13-09-2017 05:51PM

Malayalam wrote: »

Sorry, I stopped following this thread when it broke down into the usual divisive ruckus between the one's who damn everything to do with Islam and Muslims, and the one's who smugly dismiss people with any reservations about modern Islam as racists and Islamaphobes. Just too boring. I do believe that the opening post was not simply a depiction of a pleasant social outing, though it was that too, but rather a narrative full of subtext designed to provoke. Everything has subtext and it was not subtle in this case. I doubt it was unconscious either, though one can allow the benefit of the doubt.

I found this interesting, and thought to share it, since this is the currently active thread re all things immigration, and thus ultimately Islamic. The Islamic scholar, Yahya Cholil Staquf, from Indonesia, who is General Secretary of the Nahdlatul Ulama (NU) Supreme Council, the world’s largest Muslim organization has recently stated, as reported in Time magazine, that there is an inherent problem with orthodox Islam, and that Islam urgently needs to reform.

Edited extracts/quotes

Source - http://time.com/4930742/islam-terrorism-islamophobia-violence/

My purpose in posting this view from a respected Islamic scholar is to challenge the POV of dismissing people with ANY concerns about where Islam is going and particularly regarding Muslim integration into and segregation from our European societies as being bigots and racists. Of course most of the ordinary people who practice Islam are lovely and good, and it is very nice to have ethnic diversity and I welcome it; that does not mean we should in any way accommodate any ideas from any political theocracy. Integration, not multiculturalism as it is presently and widely understood, is the way forward.

(The OP as a person with a legal background will understand that a word is generally interpreted according to the present-day and most widely understood sense of its meaning. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiculturalism)

Fantastic post.

Will I Am Not · 13-09-2017 06:01PM

dav3 wrote: »

Whoa, whoa there sockpuppet, calm yourself. When did this happen?

This is a thread about the OP having a lovely day out with different nationalities and cultures, nothing more.

Are you incapable of replying to posts that go against your views without taking a swipe?

Really Interested · 13-09-2017 06:24PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I get a great kick out of that Theory that the Foreign Nationals are doing the Natives Jobs.

Worst Excuse Ever.

I have had a job since I was 11. I worked for 1.50 old Irish Punts when I first started. All my friends and everybody in my class of 21 had a job by 14.

It was different times back in late 90s I will admit but I worked in places where they replaced 18-21 yo part time staff with Foreign Staff.

My Brother is going College and thankfully has a job but most of his friends cant find part time work no more.

Of course we need certain skills and im quiet happy to see all walks of life, but this Native bashing is just a load of nonsense.

Posh class of 21 la de da, lol.

But on knocking the locals, a friend of mine has a small retail business paying above min wage, good employer. In recent years they get very few CV's from Irish and none from Students. He is the kind as he used to be a poor student in the past he would always give a Irish Student a start but none ask. When about 10 years ago he had a few students he was great in giving them reduced shifts around exam time etc. but in last few years he has had very few asking.

13-09-2017 06:24PM

Grayson wrote: »

They wear them all over south east asia. However the thing is that except for some places they're not to protect against smog. You'll see it in the middle of a park or countryside.

It's to protect against the sun. Pale is seen as beautiful over there so they wear masks to stop the sun getting on their faces.

They're more likely to have specially treated umbrellas if they're concerned about the sun and also have special hats that do the same job.

The masks are more than just for smog, but for any breathable substance. People here have forgotten or have never been exposed to what industrialisation/modernisation is like.. and in many asian countries there are no real enforced regulations on chemical spraying of crops. So, it is generally advisable to have such masks.

The_Kew_Tour · 13-09-2017 06:29PM

Really Interested wrote: »

Posh class of 21 la de da, lol.

But on knocking the locals, a friend of mine has a small retail business paying above min wage, good employer. In recent years they get very few CV's from Irish and none from Students. He is the kind as he used to be a poor student in the past he would always give a Irish Student a start but none ask. When about 10 years ago he had a few students he was great in giving them reduced shifts around exam time etc. but in last few years he has had very few asking.

Few reasons for that and sadly one of them is because most are being turned away pretty much all the time

Really Interested · 13-09-2017 07:15PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Few reasons for that and sadly one of them is because most are being turned away pretty much all the time

I have spoken to a few in small retail and food service a lot are saying the same thing. I accept it is not a study but it's what I am hearing.

Hans Bricks · 13-09-2017 07:16PM

So ... the OP had a dream that he was apart of a United Colors of Benetton advert shot in Kerry ?

Isn't multiculturalism great...

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