George hook

irishproduce · 09-09-2017 12:03AM

You have the right to leave your front door on your property open if you like don't you? Without being robbed. I mean it's your property and no one should enter it unauthorised. But most of us that live in the real world know that it really isn't something you should do. There are bad people in the world.
If my son decided he wanted to leave his front door open because he has a right to without being robbed, i'd object on the grounds mentioned above - there are bad people. Rather than protest that robbers should not rob and that robbers should be made to know that robbing is utterly unacceptable, I would just advise him to not put his home at risk in the first place. It's a s**ty world with s**ty people in it.
This story is not exactly the same but the principle still applies, take care of yourself and your stuff, that's all.

Dyr · 09-09-2017 12:07AM

Shenshen wrote: »

Someone earlier posted that women don't have the right to get drunk, so that would be irresponsible, then, too, I assume.

So where's the line? Walking home alone at night? Is it responsible to walk from the bus stop to your front door? What about taxis? What if the driver gets too friendly?

You don't have a right to be drunk no do you have the right to walk around naked in public

In fact if you're drunkenness presents a danger to you or others then you can be arrested :eek:

Outrageous victim blaming that.

Other interesting fact: the case he referred to is ongoing, nothing proven or dismissed as yet.

One_Of_Shanks · 09-09-2017 12:28AM

irishproduce wrote: »

You have the right to leave your front door on your property open if you like don't you? Without being robbed. I mean it's your property and no one should enter it unauthorised. But most of us that live in the real world know that it really isn't something you should do. There are bad people in the world.
If my son decided he wanted to leave his front door open because he has a right to without being robbed, i'd object on the grounds mentioned above - there are bad people. Rather than protest that robbers should not rob and that robbers should be made to know that robbing is utterly unacceptable, I would just advise him to not put his home at risk in the first place. It's a s**ty world with s**ty people in it.
This story is not exactly the same but the principle still applies, take care of yourself and your stuff, that's all.

See yes you're right, this is the point George was trying to get across.
And even within that people would pick flaws, as they do, but yeah I think this is the type of point he was trying to portray.

And now he's being accused of condoning rape and he's public enemy number one, but he's a dad isn't he? Of course he wasn't condoning rape.

He chose his words poorly and he didn't come across well at all but jesus he's hardly condoning rape.

I've two wee girls myself and I'm scared of what goes on out there, but what George Hook said today came across as a bit of a bumbling fool rather than anything malevolent intended, in my opinion.

LordSutch · 09-09-2017 07:42AM

...... "Should she be raped? Of course she shouldn’t. Isn’t she entitled to say no? Of course she is. Is the guy who came in a scumbag? Certainly. Should he go to jail? Of course. All those things." ......

George said all these things and more, but he never condoned anything. He did however send out a message, that from his perspective as an elderly father & grandfather (of a certain vintage), that according to his moral code from the Ireland of yesteryear, getting plastered & then going on a one night stand with a stranger may be dangerous!

Picking up anybody at short notice & having sex with them before getting to know them really is a bit risky (is it not)?

The fella might seem very nice at face value in the bar, but he could be very dangerous, and if you're "three sheets to the wind" then your judgement is screwed, is it not?

And even if its just unprotected sex without any rape, you may still come away with more than you bargained for, in the way of a STD or HIV.

I think this ^ was the thrust of Georges argument.

I wonder what the lovely Ingrid thinks?

arayess · 09-09-2017 08:39AM

it is insane how anybody can find much fault with what hook said.

I can imagine it's the usual outraged at anything crowd getting upset without reading or listening to what exactly Hook said.

that fool Chris Donoghue Hook's newstalk colleague is throwing Hook under a bus I'm not surprised. He is a terrible fellow and journalist..hops on every bandwagon no opinions of his own other that what is the days fashion

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/its-disgusting-newstalks-chris-donoghue-slams-george-hook-over-outrageous-and-offensive-rape-remarks-36115321.html

blinding · 09-09-2017 08:39AM

Perhaps George in his own way is saying....

That we are living in the world as it is......not as we would like it to be....

Lets say that we know of a dangerous place for whatever reason .

Now we would all like that everyone can go to this place safely but in reality it ain't that way . Unfortunately because we think this place should be safe for everyone we do not warn somebody of the potential dangers .....Sadly that person comes a cropper .

Now would this person not have been better to be warned and possibly take precautions or even avoid that place .

We are living in the World as it is not as we would like it to be....

arayess · 09-09-2017 08:47AM

Shenshen wrote: »

No, I have no numbers for either. I have frequently heard it being asked in cases of rape, but never in cases of assault.

If somebody went back to a house party with strangers and was beaten up, people would sympathise regarding the assault but also comment that it probably wasn't the best thing in the world to go to a house with strangers on your own.

Replace that with the crime of rape and suddenly a section of society (and people with media access) suddenly change their opinion.
exact same situation and the reaction is different..

the point is about personal responsibility - nobody for once says the victims was "asking for it" or to blame for the crime.

Certain people like to twist it that way for some reason...probably for their own agenda or platform whatever that is.
Or they just like being outraged.

Wibbs · 09-09-2017 09:44AM

Shenshen wrote: »

"But is there no blame now to the person who puts themselves in danger?" Straight from the article.
And I do wonder about someone who'd ask a question like that, yes. Because it's a question that does get asked most often in cases of rape - why did she put herself in danger getting drunk? Having a one night stand? Wearing such revealing clothes? Flirting with that stranger?

Think about it, it would be an odd question indeed to ask if it had been a young man beaten up - why did he put himself in danger getting drunk? Talking back to the dangerous looking fella with the baseball bat? Walking home alone in the dark? Isn't his recklessness assuming he'll be all right actually irresponsible behaviour on his part? Is there no blame on him for putting himself in danger and ending up in hospital?

But for some reason, and to some people, it's a valid question to ask when a woman gets raped.

Only in lalaland, in the real world women are given far more of a pass regarding personal responsibility. And yes I would question the cop on of a man getting his head kicked in under those kinda circumstances. Anyone with two braincells to rub together would. Getting wasted and escalating/starting a situation where he's more likely to be in danger. Damn right he'd be a moron - and god knows I've seen enough of them down the years - and yes he'd be partially responsible for what went down as a result of his actions.

Now try saying the same thing only swap out he for she and see the (over)reaction. We're discussing that very thing in this thread and we have seen the reaction and Hook didn't even go that far.

09-09-2017 11:55AM

arayess wrote: »

it is insane how anybody can find much fault with what hook said.

I can imagine it's the usual outraged at anything crowd getting upset without reading or listening to what exactly Hook said.

that fool Chris Donoghue is newstalk colleague is throwing Hook under a bus I'm not surprised. He is a terrible fellow and journalist..hops on every bandwagon no opinions of his own other that what is the days fashion

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/its-disgusting-newstalks-chris-donoghue-slams-george-hook-over-outrageous-and-offensive-rape-remarks-36115321.html

Louise O'Neill and Rosemary 'I changed a story for blog hits' mccabe are having their meltdown and Lon gone on record in twitter saying she never heard it - ya it's the whingebags on twitter who are perpetually offended at everything

retro:electro · 09-09-2017 12:00PM

The idea of personal responsibility today has become offensive when it comes to things like this. For instance, around Christmas time you will see the usual campaigns- don't leave windows and doors open. Make sure you leave a light on if you're going out. This is a prime time for burglary. That's all fine and well. Nobody takes an issue with that.

However, going out for the night? Don't dare try and suggest you be careful and mind yourself. Maybe get a taxi home and don't walk alone. It's: HOW DARE YOU. MAYBE TARGET YOUR CAMPAIGN AT RAPISTS TO STOP RAPING. THIS IS VICTIM BLAMING.

No it's not. There are fcuking morons out there who will always rob and rape. So it's basic common sense to target campaigns at people of sound mind and ask them to do any thing they can to reduce the possibility that something bad may happen to them. What is the point in running a campaign asking a rapist not to rape? They will fcuking rape whether you ask them to or not.
People are too hysterical nowadays.

09-09-2017 12:25PM

anna080 wrote: »

The idea of personal responsibility today has become offensive when it comes to things like this. For instance, around Christmas time you will see the usual campaigns- don't leave windows and doors open. Make sure you leave a light on if you're going out. This is a prime time for burglary. That's all fine and well. Nobody takes an issue with that.

However, going out for the night? Don't dare try and suggest you be careful and mind yourself. Maybe get a taxi home and don't walk alone. It's: HOW DARE YOU. MAYBE TARGET YOUR CAMPAIGN AT RAPISTS TO STOP RAPING. THIS IS VICTIM BLAMING.

No it's not. There are fcuking morons out there who will always rob and rape. So it's basic common sense to target campaigns at people of sound mind and ask them to do any thing they can to reduce the possibility that something bad may happen to them. What is the point in running a campaign asking a rapist not to rape? They will fcuking rape whether you ask them to or not.
People are too hysterical nowadays.

This...I'm sick of the twitter hysteria which lacks common sense. People (yes men and women)must keep safe and try as best as they can to avoid ending up in bad situations

Hook didn't condone the rape or say it was her fault, the point he was making was people need to be aware and to stop putting themselves in dangerous situations,...its not victim blaming, people (yes women and men) need to look after themselves on nights out and try to avoid troublesome/dangerous situations (like this horrific incident or assaults etc)

But Il probably get criticised by the Louise O Neill/Una Mullaley/Rosemary McCabe types who dont advocate personal responsibility and use this to promote "rape culture" agenda

MickDoyle1979 · 09-09-2017 12:30PM

Hook clearly blamed the rapist. The rapist is responsible for the rape.
Listen to what he said.
He merely pointed out you are less likely to get raped if you don't go home with someone you don't know and you don't get legless drunk
It's quite simple to understand.
You don't want your house robbed then lock your door and you don't want to be eaten alive don't go wearing a meat bikini in shark infested seas.
Very simple.
The perpetually outraged want to shut down free speech.

09-09-2017 01:16PM

irishproduce wrote: »

You have the right to leave your front door on your property open if you like don't you? Without being robbed. I mean it's your property and no one should enter it unauthorised. But most of us that live in the real world know that it really isn't something you should do. There are bad people in the world.
If my son decided he wanted to leave his front door open because he has a right to without being robbed, i'd object on the grounds mentioned above - there are bad people. Rather than protest that robbers should not rob and that robbers should be made to know that robbing is utterly unacceptable, I would just advise him to not put his home at risk in the first place. It's a s**ty world with s**ty people in it.
This story is not exactly the same but the principle still applies, take care of yourself and your stuff, that's all.

Curiously, some of the people on my FB calling for Hook's head seem to be very reluctant to condemn burglars, thieves or violent crime generally. They can often be found in the opposite corner arguing that deprivation is the real reason for such crime which is effectively excusing the perpetrators.

JMNolan · 09-09-2017 01:18PM

arayess wrote: »

it is insane how anybody can find much fault with what hook said.

I can imagine it's the usual outraged at anything crowd getting upset without reading or listening to what exactly Hook said.

that fool Chris Donoghue Hook's newstalk colleague is throwing Hook under a bus I'm not surprised. He is a terrible fellow and journalist..hops on every bandwagon no opinions of his own other that what is the days fashion

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/its-disgusting-newstalks-chris-donoghue-slams-george-hook-over-outrageous-and-offensive-rape-remarks-36115321.html

Chris was almost calling himself a hero on twitter. What a cretin.

Wibbs · 09-09-2017 01:35PM

NewbridgeIR wrote: »

Curiously, some of the people on my FB calling for Hook's head seem to be very reluctant to condemn burglars, thieves or violent crime generally. They can often be found in the opposite corner arguing that deprivation is the real reason for such crime which is effectively excusing the perpetrators.

It's a real big part of the problem of too far down the rabbit hole of modern "progressive" thinking. We must never judge, never say this is right, this is wrong, nobody is truly to blame for their actions, responsibility is a dirty word etc(outside of certain "enemy" groups IE white people/men responsible for all the woes. Apparently).

It's a philosophy - and I use the word vaguely - of the grey areas. Which is fine in a philosophy class and it can certainly be a useful tool to tweeze out underlying reasons and causes of things, but it's not particular useful in wider contexts. And meanwhile back in the real world, you house may still get burgled, your car may get stolen, you may be physically and sexually assaulted and no amount go grey area thinking will prevent that on the ground.

evolving_doors · 09-09-2017 01:39PM

JMNolan wrote: »

Chris was almost calling himself a hero on twitter. What a cretin.

I think it's just a new ploy in Newstalk, get 2 presenters pitted against each other in an argument.

A la Shane vs Paul in the morning...
They even promote it as such.

George is the Healy Rae of the station ....

Sad thing is I usually agree with him the most!

In this case he wasn't victim blaming.

Agricola · 09-09-2017 01:43PM

Hate this line of thinking. It's pure common sense for everyone to do whatever they can to reduce the possibility of harm coming to them. Did you ever see anyone walking or running across a pedestrian crossing, safe in the knowledge that it's the driver's responsibility NOT to knock them over. How very dare that driver not stop for ME a pedestrian. It's not MY responsibility to watch for cars, it's theirs to watch for walkers???? No of course not, no one says that. Everyone crossing the road is careful and looks before stepping out.

Same thing for women walking around alone late at night. Yes, its the rapist's fault, always. But if she had made other arrangements, had some company etc, then the lightlihood of it is happening is much reduced. And isnt that what any sane person wants.

The_Captain · 09-09-2017 02:01PM

He's a scumbag, and anyone on this line of thinking is a scumbag.

If a guy goes on a night out and gets attacked or mugged, no one blames him for allowing himself to be attacked.

I wouldn't listen to the old prick. He's a backwards, racist, sexist embarrassment to this country like Jeremy Clarkson, but for some reason people have this idea that it's okay because he just tells it like it is or says what he believes.

retro:electro · 09-09-2017 02:10PM

The_Captain wrote: »

He's a scumbag, and anyone on this line of thinking is a scumbag.

If a guy goes on a night out and gets attacked or mugged, no one blames him for allowing himself to be attacked.

I wouldn't listen to the old prick. He's a backwards, racist, sexist embarrassment to this country like Jeremy Clarkson, but for some reason people have this idea that it's okay because he just tells it like it is or says what he believes.

Of course nobody would blame the guy. George wasn't blaming the woman either. He was just trying to advocate for personal responsibility, and where there is a lack of it- bad things may happen to you. He's just not very articulate and people have a go cos he's an auld one. I wouldn't be a fan of his, in fact I'd probably turn the channel if he came on- but looking at what he was saying as a whole, I find it hard to disagree with it in principle.

jackboy · 09-09-2017 02:19PM

The_Captain wrote: »

He's a scumbag, and anyone on this line of thinking is a scumbag.

If a guy goes on a night out and gets attacked or mugged, no one blames him for allowing himself to be attacked.

I wouldn't listen to the old prick. He's a backwards, racist, sexist embarrassment to this country like Jeremy Clarkson, but for some reason people have this idea that it's okay because he just tells it like it is or says what he believes.

You are easily embarrassed. We have a lot worse in this country. Hook is generally grand. We all know he talks a bit of nonsense sometimes. Not worth getting apoplectic over.

Richard Hillman · 09-09-2017 02:27PM

JMNolan wrote: »

Chris was almost calling himself a hero on twitter. What a cretin.

O'Donoghue is a creepy individual at the best of times. He's clearly trying to maneover some free air time since he got demoted.

mzungu · 09-09-2017 02:39PM

The_Captain wrote: »

He's a scumbag, and anyone on this line of thinking is a scumbag.

If a guy goes on a night out and gets attacked or mugged, no one blames him for allowing himself to be attacked.

I wouldn't listen to the old prick. He's a backwards, racist, sexist embarrassment to this country like Jeremy Clarkson, but for some reason people have this idea that it's okay because he just tells it like it is or says what he believes.

You are right, but Hook said pretty much the same thing. His "line of thinking" is the exact same as yours in that the victim is not to blame. What he said more or less amounted to "There are a lot of scumbags out there and we all should do our best not to make it easy for them". That is good advice in itself, no matter what sex you are. As was said above, Hook chose his words terribly, but I highly doubt his intent was to lay any of the blame on the victim.

MickDoyle1979 · 09-09-2017 02:39PM

The_Captain wrote: »

He's a scumbag, and anyone on this line of thinking is a scumbag.

If a guy goes on a night out and gets attacked or mugged, no one blames him for allowing himself to be attacked.

I wouldn't listen to the old prick. He's a backwards, racist, sexist embarrassment to this country like Jeremy Clarkson, but for some reason people have this idea that it's okay because he just tells it like it is or says what he believes.

If a guy gets off his tits and gets rolled for his wallet by a pack of urchins he deserves blame. Nobody should be robbed but we know he would be less likely to be robbed if he wasn't a drunken fool.

If a girl is found legless drunk in an alley and she can't tell if she was raped by one guy or ten guys she is a victim but she is responsible for getting herself in danger.

This is basic common sense and for Hook to be taking heat for speaking what every body with their head screwed on knows is true is absolutely mental

This whole thing is BS

Anyone claiming to be outraged at what hook said is a w*nker

End of

freshpopcorn · 09-09-2017 02:50PM

There is never an excuse for rape or being attacked. People should feel safe on a night out no matter where they are or what they are wearing.
I do think people need a lot more education about alcohol. Let's face it we can all over do it the odd night but for a lot it seems to happen every night. (Please not I'm not on about the long term health effects). I always hate when you see a group of friends together and they abandon one person after a while. They forget about there friend and they are basically just left there to drink and make there own way home.(They don't even check to see if there all right) Alcohol really changes people. People who'd never drink drive, get into a car with a drunk driver, do dangerous things and these things can have terrible effects. Even when somebody walks home alone. It can be very dangerous without meeting any people. You can stumble into the road, fall and hit your head and even fall into a river/canal/etc. These simple events can have massive effects on your own life, family/friends. So all I'm saying is to try and make sure your friends get home okay.

kylith · 09-09-2017 03:16PM

So, how much is a woman allowed to drink then? One pint? Two? When does she get tipsy enough that she gets to bear personal responsibility for a man forcing himself on her?

freshpopcorn · 09-09-2017 03:20PM

kylith wrote: »

So, how much is a woman allowed to drink then? One pint? Two? When does she get tipsy enough that she gets to bear personal responsibility for a man forcing himself on her?

People should drink within there own limits everybody is different.

Dyr · 09-09-2017 03:23PM

kylith wrote: »

So, how much is a woman allowed to drink then? One pint? Two? When does she get tipsy enough that she gets to bear personal responsibility for a man forcing himself on her?

I think people should take responsibility for their own levels of reading comprehension. Notably, your good self.

mzungu · 09-09-2017 03:23PM

kylith wrote: »

So, how much is a woman allowed to drink then? One pint? Two? When does she get tipsy enough that she gets to bear personal responsibility for a man forcing himself on her?

Are we reading the same thread?

The answer obviously is never. If you had read the thread you would have seen that has been the unanimous viewpoint.

09-09-2017 03:24PM

kylith wrote: »

So, how much is a woman allowed to drink then? One pint? Two? When does she get tipsy enough that she gets to bear personal responsibility for a man forcing himself on her?

Women and Men should not drink to excess , know their limits to avoid getting in to bad situations

markodaly · 09-09-2017 03:26PM

A different scenario but relevant as to personal responsibility when people put themselves in situations where they lose control and situations can become dire and tragic.

I see now he has apologised unreservedly, looks like he was forced into it by Newstalk. The media is just a mob.

George hook

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