Pro Wrestling/WWE - What's your opinion on it?

Necro · 28-08-2017 3:25pm

MagicIRL wrote:

It is not a sport, no matter how in-shape the actors are or how dangerous their stunts are. The fact it's actually shown on Sky Sports is hilarious in itself.

Is everyone just ignoring the fact that a lot of what Sky Sports show is in fact not sport by its purest definition?

I hate to keep bringing this up and I'm a big fan of it myself. But the physical activity level is 100 miles more active than darts, poker, snooker, pool...

Yes. It's scripted. But it is athletic entertainment. While that might not be in everybody's taste it is suited to being placed on the sports channels.

And again, I would much rather have as many live events as possible (football, golf, cricket, darts, tennis, WWE, F1, whatever) than god awful replays of games and matches ten years ago. They should be put on YouTube so people have a choice to view them rather than paying for the 'privilege' of watching fecking replays!!

leggo · 28-08-2017 3:26pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

MMA/UFC fights ain't fake though and that makes all the difference in the world.

WWE is pretend fighting.

It would be like sitting down to watch the Grand Prix of a Sunday and all the drivers just ran around the track making car noises.

It's not fake?! McGregor was laughing when he lost on Saturday! Wrestling is just honest about its deception! I love MMA but how often do fighters pretend to hate each other for months then, the second they're finished fighting, turn around like "we were just selling the fight guys, he's cool, I really get on with him and his wife!" :pac:

Your perception of the word 'fake' is interesting. The people who openly go "yeah this is all entertainment..." are the liars and the people who go "no this is real!" while putting on a performance to sell tickets are the 'real' ones? Who's the gullible one here like? :pac:

Necro · 28-08-2017 3:31pm

MagicIRL wrote:

You have two actors, with a scripted event, and a scripted outcome, performing an intricate and sometimes acrobatic act. That is not sport, it is performance/theater/entertainment.

Again, agreed it's not a sport but it is better suited on the sports channels than Sky Arts or Sky Atlantic for example.
I would imagine viewers of these channels would be less than impressed to see 6/10 hours a week taken up by wrestling rather than the shows they prefer.

I get it. It isn't for everyone. But the argument that it doesn't belong on sports channels doesn't hold much weight in my opinion. Especially when there are now 8 (9 including SSN) sports channels on the sky sports package alone. Would you prefer 7 hours of synchronised swimming to take it's place?

MagicIRL · 28-08-2017 3:32pm

Necrominus wrote: »

Is everyone just ignoring the fact that a lot of what Sky Sports show is in fact not sport by its purest definition?

sport
spɔːt/
noun
1.
an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

Although not having high levels of exertion, both Snooker/Pool and Darts do involved physical exertion to participate. Therefore they qualify 100% under your "purest definition" of sport.

The issue with WWE is that there is no competition. It's like an Action movie, only its acted out live in front of an audience instead of filmed on a set and released in theatres.

osarusan · 28-08-2017 3:34pm

WWE is a performance acted out until a predetermined outcome is reached.

Everything else mentioned so far (MMA, golf, football, pool) has its flaws, but they are at least genuine competitions of physical ability and skill.

We're getting close to the messy business of defining what sport is, but, for me at least, anything that has a predetermined outcome definitely is not a sport.

Necro · 28-08-2017 3:41pm

MagicIRL wrote:

Although not having high levels of exertion, both Snooker/Pool and Darts do involved physical exertion to participate. Therefore they qualify 100% under your "purest definition" of sport.

Ah but you're being a little bit pedantic about the definition now in fairness. I have no cross to bear against snooker pool or darts, I enjoy them as I enjoy WWE but for me they are a very specific skill formulated into a game rather than a sport. I personally feel the same about golf although I'm not including that as there is a larger amount of physical exertion involved (although mainly just walking between shots, but let's not go down that rabbit hole :P)

Again, would you prefer hours of replays of already shown matches or events to take the place of WWE? I know I wouldn't. Because if you think the 10 odd hours a week dedicated to WWE would be replaced with another sport if they moved it to a supposedly more appropriate channel you'd be wrong. You'd just get a 6 hour cricket match from 1am to 7am and a couple of 'Football Golds' in the evening instead of a RAW replay. With no price reduction.
Doesn't seem like a good deal to me.

Necro · 28-08-2017 3:42pm

osarusan wrote:

We're getting close to the messy business of defining what sport is, but, for me at least, anything that has a predetermined outcome definitely is not a sport.

I 100% agree with the statement that WWE isn't a sport. Never questioned that. I just think it's more suited to the sports channels than Sky Arts or Sky Atlantic. That's all I'm really saying.

osarusan · 28-08-2017 3:43pm

Necrominus wrote: »

Again, would you prefer hours of replays of already shown matches or events to take the place of WWE? I know I wouldn't. Because if you think the 10 odd hours a week dedicated to WWE would be replaced with another sport if they moved it to a supposedly more appropriate channel you'd be wrong. You'd just get a 6 hour cricket match from 1am to 7am and a couple of 'Football Golds' in the evening instead of a RAW replay. With no price reduction.
Doesn't seem like a good deal to me.

This isn't an argument for WWE though, it's against the number of sports channels.

Necro · 28-08-2017 3:45pm

osarusan wrote:

This isn't an argument for WWE though, it's against the number of sports channels.

Possibly. But it's a live event. I'd much prefer to have live events on sports channels than replays and that's the crux of my argument.
I don't see what harm it does. The WWE/Sky Sports deal isn't what's driving up the price of sports subscriptions so if it's included what's the big deal?

WinnyThePoo · 28-08-2017 3:49pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

MMA/UFC fights ain't fake though and that makes all the difference in the world.

WWE is pretend fighting.

It would be like sitting down to watch the Grand Prix of a Sunday and all the drivers just ran around the track making car noises.

Funny mma was born out of pro wrestling.

Funny everyone knows wwe is pretend fighting. Have you only found this out lately?

leggo · 28-08-2017 3:50pm

I think the "Is it fake" argument can be distilled down to this:

Some people are insecure. They're very worried about not appearing stupid, so go over the top to try and show people that THEY KNOW STUFF! So, with wrestling or magic or anything that at face value presents itself as 'real', but is obviously entertainment, they have to shout really loudly about how IT'S NOT REAL, else god forbid someone look at them and think for a second that they're getting fooled.

Where it gets really funny is when the same people then get invested in other obviously manufactured facets of entertainment, like reality TV or even stuff like boxers/MMA guys selling fights. So turns out they are a bit thick after all, hence the insecurity to begin with I guess...

osarusan · 28-08-2017 3:52pm

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Funny mma was born out of pro wrestling.

Funny everyone knows wwe is pretend fighting. Have you only found this out lately?

Unless you think that an MMA fight is not a genuine contest, but is scripted in some way, I don't really know what your point is.

WinnyThePoo · 28-08-2017 3:54pm

osarusan wrote: »

Unless you think that an MMA fight is not a genuine contest, but is scripted in some way, I don't really know what your point is.

Em.. The other poster said pro wrestling was pretend fighting. People with any sort of brain know that.

oneilla · 28-08-2017 3:55pm

leggo wrote: »

It's not fake?! McGregor was laughing when he lost on Saturday! Wrestling is just honest about its deception! I love MMA but how often do fighters pretend to hate each other for months then, the second they're finished fighting, turn around like "we were just selling the fight guys, he's cool, I really get on with him and his wife!" :pac:

Your perception of the word 'fake' is interesting. The people who openly go "yeah this is all entertainment..." are the liars and the people who go "no this is real!" while putting on a performance to sell tickets are the 'real' ones? Who's the gullible one here like? :pac:

There was an interview in the early 2000s after Zuffa bought UFC where Dana White blankly stated they intended to mix the legitimacy of boxing with the promotion of WWF. And thats what they did throughout the 2000s. (The interview was on a DVD which I've never been able to find again.)

Btw McGregor referenced Ric Flair in the post-fight presser - it was about a fur coat.

leggo · 28-08-2017 4:02pm

oneilla wrote: »

There was an interview in the early 2000s after Zuffa bought UFC where Dana White blankly stated they intended to mix the legitimacy of boxing with the promotion of WWF. And thats what they did throughout the 2000s. (The interview was on a DVD which I've never been able to find again.)

Btw McGregor referenced Ric Flair in the post-fight presser - it was about a fur coat.

Yep. Not to mention him doing the Vince McMahon strut, calling out WWE guys for some cross-promotional stuff previously, and the small matter of him just after having a pro-wrestling match with Floyd Mayweather in a boxing ring on Saturday night (I mean, c'mon, McGregor did well but do McGregor fans REALLY think he won more rounds and landed more shots than Manny Pacquaio or Ricky Hatton in their primes in his first fight? Or did Floyd throw him a few rounds to make the fight interesting? I'm willing to play along but let's be real for a second here...)

Even the US President used wrestling-style tactics to get elected, and it worked. This stuff is everywhere! People just try and kick it for no reason to seem smart and above it, when they're no doubt consuming it in some way (and loving it) without even realising.

jamesbere · 28-08-2017 4:03pm

Loved it when I was younger, Shawn Michaels, Razor Ramone, Brett and Owen Hart, the undertaker etc.

The Michaels Ramone ladder match was always my favourite. I grew out of it when I became a teenager but still enjoyed it. It was entertainment and good to watch.

osarusan · 28-08-2017 4:09pm

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Em.. The other poster said pro wrestling was pretend fighting. People with any sort of brain know that.

And...?

Pro-wrestling like WWE is scripted, pretend fighting...MMA fights are not, even if MMA's origins come from something what was.

I genuinely don't see what your point is.

Riddle101 · 28-08-2017 4:20pm

I love pro wrestling and am not ashamed to admit it. Yes it's ridiculous but it's just a bit of fun really. It's certainly nothing to be embarrassed by as some people would have you believe.

One thing I will say in defense of pro wrestling. While pro wrestling is pre determined, it is not fake. The wrestlers put their bodies on the line every time they get in the ring. They feel everything in the ring. The wrestlers do get hurt and many have been injured inside a the ring, some have been paralyzed, and some have even died. Is wrestling a sport? No, it's entertainment. But it is an athletic endeavor, and the wrestlers are mostly in good physical condition.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 28-08-2017 4:26pm

Riddle101 wrote: »

I love pro wrestling and am not ashamed to admit it. Yes it's ridiculous but it's just a bit of fun really. It's certainly nothing to be embarrassed by as some people would have you believe.

One thing I will say in defense of pro wrestling. While pro wrestling is pre determined, it is not fake. The wrestlers put their bodies on the line every time they get in the ring. They feel everything in the ring. The wrestlers do get hurt and many have been injured inside a the ring, some have been paralyzed, and some have even died. Is wrestling a sport? No, it's entertainment. But it is an athletic endeavor, and the wrestlers are mostly in good physical condition.

The rings themselves are often stiff as hell, especially what WWE use. I remember Lesnar saying how shocked his MMA buddies were when he told them to take flat back bumps in a ring he kept at his house. People assume that it's like a trampoline or something.

Unfortunately it takes its toll on the body over the years and many older retired guys end up with serious back and neck issues.

WinnyThePoo · 28-08-2017 4:30pm

osarusan wrote: »

And...?

Pro-wrestling like WWE is scripted, pretend fighting...MMA fights are not, even if MMA's origins come from something what was.

I genuinely don't see what your point is.

Fascinating. Tell me more.

GritBiscuit · 28-08-2017 4:35pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

It would be like sitting down to watch the Grand Prix of a Sunday and all the drivers just ran around the track making car noises.

For me, this sums up the lack of appeal - it's a pantomime...and while I'm sure the spectacle of men running around a track making vrooming noises would also draw a loyal fanbase, I wouldn't be among them...any more than I would be for reality TV or cricket, come to that.

Each to their own, I'm sure my planner would bore the pants of many a WWE fan.

Omackeral · 28-08-2017 4:45pm

awec wrote: »

Yea alright, but I fancy my chances. By the time he's changed into his speedos, oiled himself up and done his little entrance dance I'll be long gone.

You know he's a former UFC Heavyweight Champion and NCAA Amateur Champion too? Or did you just wanna get your oily speedo fantasy out there?

oneilla · 28-08-2017 4:47pm

leggo wrote: »

I think the "Is it fake" argument can be distilled down to this:

Some people are insecure. They're very worried about not appearing stupid, so go over the top to try and show people that THEY KNOW STUFF! So, with wrestling or magic or anything that at face value presents itself as 'real', but is obviously entertainment, they have to shout really loudly about how IT'S NOT REAL, else god forbid someone look at them and think for a second that they're getting fooled.

Where it gets really funny is when the same people then get invested in other obviously manufactured facets of entertainment, like reality TV or even stuff like boxers/MMA guys selling fights. So turns out they are a bit thick after all, hence the insecurity to begin with I guess...

People who dismiss wrestling because it's fake are generally fine by me, there's not much more engagement or argument to be had with that viewpoint. But MMA fans who want a firewall between pro wrestling and MMA are a tad deluded given the history (The first UFC could have taken place in a pit or a most surrounded by sharks for Pete's sake!)
, the business, audience share, promotion and booking etc.

There was also
MMA in Japan where the distinction between a work and a shoot were a bit blurred and the playing field wasn't always even.

Omackeral · 28-08-2017 4:47pm

awec wrote: »

Yea alright, but I fancy my chances. By the time he's changed into his speedos, oiled himself up and done his little entrance dance I'll be long gone.

You know he's a former UFC Heavyweight Champion and NCAA Amateur Champion too? Or did you just wanna get your oily speedo fantasy out there?

Omackeral · 28-08-2017 4:50pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

If someone over 25 told me they liked WWE... I'd glance around to see if they had a carer with them tbh.

I know you from the Celebrity Big Brother thread! That's arguably more fake. Have you a carer helping you type?!

entropi · 28-08-2017 4:53pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

As long as it's kept off sky sports and on E! Or Nickelodeon I have no problem with it.

It has a majority physical aspect, even has sports in the descriptor of sports entertainment.... By that reasoning I could say that golf and snooker should be kept off sports channels, seeing as they are pastimes (skill-based ones, but pastimes nonetheless).

awec wrote: »

Yea alright, but I fancy my chances. By the time he's changed into his speedos, oiled himself up and done his little entrance dance I'll be long gone.

So you fancy your chances, but choose to bottle the encounter anyway? Solid logic there.

I'm still a fan, and have been since I was a child. Don't always watch the main WWE products these days but still the big 4, and go to some OTT and Low Blows shows whenever I can.

Outlaw Pete · 28-08-2017 4:54pm

leggo wrote: »

McGregor was laughing when he lost on Saturday!

Laughing at how much he had just earned..... not cause he had just taken part in a pretend fight.

Wrestling is just honest about its deception! I love MMA but how often do fighters pretend to hate each other for months then, the second they're finished fighting, turn around like "we were just selling the fight guys, he's cool, I really get on with him and his wife!" :pac:

I said the fights weren't fake. Not the beefs. Many of them. Doesn't mean what you suggesting it does.

Sure, in UFC (and boxing) there is a certain amount of theatre in the build up (some of it real, some fake) but so what? That doesn't make the fights themselves fake? MMA is a real sport, with real fighting. To try and compare it to WWE just because there's some trashing talking in the build up is absurd.

leggo · 28-08-2017 5:01pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Laughing at how much he had just earned..... not cause he had just taken part in a pretend fight.

I said the fights weren't fake. Not the beefs. Many of them are, for sure.

Sure, in UFC (and boxing) there is some theatre in the build up (some of it real, some fake) but so what? That doesn't make the fights fake? MMA is a real sport, with real fighting. To try and compare it to WWE just because there's some trashing talking in the build up is absurd.

WAS McGregor/Mayweather real though? Like would you bet your mortgage on it that a story won't come out one day saying that they had conversations about which way it'd go? They were travelling to press conferences and hanging out during the build-up, after all. I know for a fact that they had meetings agreeing to have fake beef to further each other's profile before this stuff came about (I think that was even reported), so it's not as if they're honourable and above working the public, all evidence shows that that's exactly what they do. And, like, let's be real here, what's more likely: that or someone in their first fight performing better than accomplished boxers who'd been fighting years? I love a good story and all but come on...

I mean, it'd just be ironic if you came on here saying that people who like staged things need carers and then were spending the rest of your time consuming something staged. And I haven't even mentioned Celebrity Big Brother!

Outlaw Pete · 28-08-2017 5:01pm

Omackeral wrote: »

I know you from the Celebrity Big Brother thread! That's arguably more fake. Have you a cater helping you type?!

No ida know what a cater is :P

leggo wrote: »

WAS McGregor/Mayweather real though? Like would you bet your mortgage on it that a story won't come out one day saying that they had conversations about which way it'd go.

Ah come on. Conspiracy theories forum with that kind of thinking tbh.

McG gave it everything thing he had, and it wasn't good enough but he's not about faking fights. Took everything he had to stay on his feet.

awec · 28-08-2017 5:06pm

leggo wrote: »

It's not fake?! McGregor was laughing when he lost on Saturday! Wrestling is just honest about its deception! I love MMA but how often do fighters pretend to hate each other for months then, the second they're finished fighting, turn around like "we were just selling the fight guys, he's cool, I really get on with him and his wife!" :pac:

Your perception of the word 'fake' is interesting. The people who openly go "yeah this is all entertainment..." are the liars and the people who go "no this is real!" while putting on a performance to sell tickets are the 'real' ones? Who's the gullible one here like? :pac:

Bit of a difference between two genuine combat sports fighters pretending to dislike each other to market their fight and a bloke pretending that he's an undead undertaker and the likes.

Pro Wrestling/WWE - What's your opinion on it?

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