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Media: Bank of Ireland pull ludicrous twitter add after furious backlash

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,408 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    awec wrote: »
    I think there are a few different discussions happening here. Firstly, nobody is denying that adults living at home actually happens. Unfortunately for some it is unavoidable.

    What people are disputing is that this is a completely normal thing to happen. Firstly, these people are adults, they should be independent people. If someone is still living with mummy and daddy but has the financial means to live elsewhere then it shows a lack of responsibility and a lack of independence, really it's just a bit odd.

    If people are forced to go home to mum and dad then something somewhere along the line has gone wrong that may or may not be their fault. It's not a normal thing to happen and it shouldn't happen. It is a fairly sad state of affairs if people are forced to go down this road.

    As for adults living at home and not paying their way? Leeches. They are basically children. Personally I would be embarrassed to live like this.

    Sorry awec those adults who you are essentially calling bums as they moved home with some money made a responsible decision after some thought here were the options (A) rent a place which yes I can afford but am unable to save anything or much for a deposit or (B) take an offer to move home contribute in some way be it bills or food and save there money that would be rent for a year or so. Get the 20% deposit (I hope you are not advocating getting rid of deposits and going back to the "good old time"🙄) and be able to buy the house.

    That to me is a responsible thinking through there options taking a small bit for the long-term gain not a bum

    My last line should read that to me is a responsible adult thinking through there options taking a small bit of pain for the long-term gain


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭LirW


    I hate to say it but I agree with what nox said.

    We had to move in with my partner's parents and we offered them rent, bill contribution, doing their shopping and the like over and over again. They didn't want it and said we should keep the money to save for our own house. We did our shopping though, bought everything we needed on our own because we felt so bad. Yes it worked out for us, we saved every cent but it was a huge sacrifice though. I'm eternally grateful for the help of his parents.
    But having very little privacy for 15 months was tough.

    It's certainly not a nice feeling moving back to the parents but with the current rental market many people have to. In a healthy economy rents would work out cheaper than mortgages and it's a viable option for many people long term. But it isn't here. For people on lower income paying high rent means scraping by and they can't save for a deposit.
    The ad just came at a very wrong time, in an overheated market where many people find themselves in a predicament.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Calina


    Why the hell should someone sell the house for less just because you want a place in the city. Its there house they can do what they want.

    So that we are absolutely clear on this: I don't want a place in Dublin. I decided I did not want to spend my life there and I left last year.

    However, I lived in Dublin between 2000 and 2016. This covered the period of a huge property bubble and crash. Your prices are back up to where they were not long before the whole shooting gallery crashed in 2007. One of the key issues that point to problems is a lack of FTB affordability. Given the screams and howls about how expensive it is, what the rules are, it seems to me that FTB affordability just isn't there.

    The property crash in 2007 was a long drawn out mess as people chased market clearing prices down, almost like they were trying to catch fast falling knives. In part, property spent a lot of time on the market as people did not want to sell for "less than it was worth" or in many cases, less than they had paid for it.
    There are also those who want a laundry list for there place and will not compromise I feel there are also the entitled class.

    I think there's a lot to be said for not settling. I'm glad I didn't, for example. I'd be stuck in a terrace in Dundalk and commuting in from Dublin. Instead, I'm not. Possibly if people had not settled, we might not be in this mess. But your mileage may vary.
    When I went to buy my place and look around I had what I wanted but realised it may not be possible so I compromised the amount of space distance from where I wanted etc and guess what then more places opened up and I paid less then if I tried to find the ideal place. Its mine I love it is it where I want it no, is it the size I would like no but you can't always get what you want.

    Currently I live in a 1 bed apartment which is 8sqm smaller than the 3 bedroom house I vacated when I left Dublin. It's bigger than most 2 bed apartments in Dublin. It is a 30 minute walk from work, within five minutes of 2 supermarkets and a 10 minute walk from the centre of the city I live in which has reasonable public transport. I have pretty much everything I want plus I can afford to live on my own renting, Sure, I can't buy but if I lived in Dublin I would be neither able to buy nor rent so all told I think I'm doing better than I did in Dublin. I love where I am. And I didn't compromise because if I had, I'd be trapped in Dublin with a mortgage. I feel very fortunate but it was on the back of not compromising, not on compromising.
    Who said leaving with you parents into your adulthood is normal as far as I can see either did the ad. It is an option which this person could take and they did it not telling you you have to or if you don't you are bad.

    I actually had a conversation with my mother about this last night. I was interested to see that my mother's view is that the Bank of Ireland had an awful cheek. Our expectation is that once you are an adult, you are old enough to be taking responsibiity for your life. This includes not living with your parents as an adult. You can see in this thread that there are quite a number of people who consider that it is normal.

    In any case, even the ability to kip in with parents is geographically determined. I studied in Dublin which is 250km from where my parents live. I was never going to be commuting from their place like a lot of my friends could. And I worked in Dublin when I got back to Ireland so I was never going to be commuting. Kipping with your parents is not so much normal as a privilege. And it ill behoves a bank to suggest that it becomes normal the way it has in other parts of the world.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,568 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Calina wrote: »
    In any case, even the ability to kip in with parents is geographically determined. I studied in Dublin which is 250km from where my parents live. I was never going to be commuting from their place like a lot of my friends could. And I worked in Dublin when I got back to Ireland so I was never going to be commuting. Kipping with your parents is not so much normal as a privilege. And it ill behoves a bank to suggest that it becomes normal the way it has in other parts of the world.

    It depends on the society really. Where the is ample land and cheap building costs it would be strange to live with ones parents. But where there isnt it makes a lot more sense. In some cultures it would be considered strange not to live with several generations of a family under one roof.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,931 ✭✭✭Villa05


    Where the is ample land and cheap building costs it would be strange to live with ones parents. But where there isnt it makes a lot more sense. In some cultures it would be considered strange not to live with several generations of a family under one roof.

    Yes quiet common in Bangladesh, however they have a population of 60 million plus. Ireland on the other hand is amongst the most under developed in western Europe with a paltry population of just over 4 million.
    Building costs for the most part are within our own control


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  • Posts: 24,774 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Calina wrote: »

    I actually had a conversation with my mother about this last night. I was interested to see that my mother's view is that the Bank of Ireland had an awful cheek. Our expectation is that once you are an adult, you are old enough to be taking responsibiity for your life. This includes not living with your parents as an adult. You can see in this thread that there are quite a number of people who consider that it is normal.
    .

    That's one outlook where as my parents are the exact opposite. I get asked regulalry how the job prospects are looking within commutable distance of home so that I can move back in home initially (with my oh) and then start building next door. They can't wait to have me back and seeing me everyday and of course having my help on the farm etc.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,568 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Villa05 wrote: »
    Yes quiet common in Bangladesh, however they have a population of 60 million plus. Ireland on the other hand is amongst the most under developed in western Europe with a paltry population of just over 4 million.
    Building costs for the most part are within our own control

    Well the problems here relate to the unavailability of land near cities as a lot of it is landbanked coupled with high regulatory costs of building.

    I agree the Irish government could do a lot to make housing cheaper, but they dont seem all that inclined to do it.


  • Posts: 17,925 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That's one outlook where as my parents are the exact opposite. I get asked regulalry how the job prospects are looking within commutable distance of home so that I can move back in home initially (with my oh) and then start building next door. They can't wait to have me back and seeing me everyday and of course having my help on the farm etc.

    You'll get that job near home eventually old boy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,608 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Dont be a gob****e.
    Address must have been auto correct when I typed it.
    You're really grasping here.

    Address, advice, advertisement, the sentiment is there, you think it's good advice, you said "it works". You can't blame auto correct on everything. You then went on to say "ads are not advice"!! It's ok if you think it's good advice, it's ok if you think it's a good ad! I think it's a good ad!! I think it's brilliant! I don't think it's very nice, I think it's cynical, I think it's a nasty way to generate business in a strangled, screwed up housing/rental system that has people jumping through hoops to get a mortgage... but go ahead.

    Take their advice, jump through hoops my friend. I genuinely hope it works out for you.

    These banks are the reason people are jumping through hoops to get mortgages, they set it up, they screwed up, they were careless, they were doling out money when they shouldn't have been, they're suggesting the hoops now! Go for it, read their ads, take their advice.

    On a human level I think it's unfair. I think it's unfair that it's impossible for hard working professionals paying massive taxes can't rent and save for a home.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,858 ✭✭✭worded


    One of the commenters mentioned millennials. I don't know how thats defined exactly but it always seems to crop up when someone's offended.

    All about Millenials. The fcuked generation
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=00FDR1E0zvE


    https://youtu.be/hER0Qp6QJNU


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,349 ✭✭✭Wombatman


    ybvgu817gxhz.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,408 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    John_Rambo wrote: »
    Dont be a gob****e.
    Address must have been auto correct when I typed it.
    You're really grasping here.

    Address, advice, advertisement, the sentiment is there, you think it's good advice, you said "it works". You can't blame auto correct on everything. You then went on to say "ads are not advice"!! It's ok if you think it's good advice, it's ok if you think it's a good ad! I think it's a good ad!! I think it's brilliant! I don't think it's very nice, I think it's cynical, I think it's a nasty way to generate business in a strangled, screwed up housing/rental system that has people jumping through hoops to get a mortgage... but go ahead.

    Take their advice, jump through hoops my friend. I genuinely hope it works out for you.

    These banks are the reason people are jumping through hoops to get mortgages, they set it up, they screwed up, they were careless, they were doling out money when they shouldn't have been, they're suggesting the hoops now! Go for it, read their ads, take their advice.

    On a human level I think it's unfair. I think it's unfair that it's impossible for hard working professionals paying massive taxes can't rent and save for a home.

    So what is your suggestion. Those hoops are prudent telling people you have to have x amount of a deposit. Otherwise we go back to giving 100% to 120% mortgages. Yes you may be able to pay that now (believe it or not most could afford there mortgage before the crash) but a mortgage is a 20 + year loan in that time many things can happen interest rates could sky rocket, you could lose your job, you could get a series illness, you could get married and you could have kids


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,353 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    I saw the Herald have a column condemning BOI over the Twitter advert.

    So that's what #fakenews looks like...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,168 ✭✭✭Ursus Horribilis


    Years ago (I'm guessing 2004-2005) one of the banks ran a TV ad encouraging parents to help their kids stump up their mortgage deposit. Now that one I found offensive because it lay on the guilt tripping with a trowel. In comparison this is a storm in a teacup.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,858 ✭✭✭worded


    Years ago (I'm guessing 2004-2005) one of the banks ran a TV ad encouraging parents to help their kids stump up their mortgage deposit. Now that one I found offensive because it lay on the guilt tripping with a trowel. In comparison this is a storm in a teacup.

    I remember that ad and it was guilt trippping the parents alright


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,858 ✭✭✭worded


    The upward value of house is a + for the Govt as it pushes houses into the next tax band for property tax. Whether this has been done by design or not, it's worked out well for them and their bloated wages and pensions


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 960 ✭✭✭jamesthepeach


    John_Rambo wrote: »
    Address, advice, advertisement, the sentiment is there, you think it's good advice, you said "it works". You can't blame auto correct on everything. You then went on to say "ads are not advice"!! It's ok if you think it's good advice, it's ok if you think it's a good ad! I think it's a good ad!! I think it's brilliant! I don't think it's very nice, I think it's cynical, I think it's a nasty way to generate business in a strangled, screwed up housing/rental system that has people jumping through hoops to get a mortgage... but go ahead.

    Take their advice, jump through hoops my friend. I genuinely hope it works out for you.

    These banks are the reason people are jumping through hoops to get mortgages, they set it up, they screwed up, they were careless, they were doling out money when they shouldn't have been, they're suggesting the hoops now! Go for it, read their ads, take their advice.

    On a human level I think it's unfair. I think it's unfair that it's impossible for hard working professionals paying massive taxes can't rent and save for a home.


    It's only an ad . Seriously. Get over it.


  • Posts: 24,774 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It's only an ad . Seriously. Get over it.

    I reckon he is just jealous as he has a big mortgage and begrudges those who move home to save a bigger deposit.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 960 ✭✭✭jamesthepeach


    I reckon he is just jealous as he has a big mortgage and begrudges those who move home to save a bigger deposit.


    Nah I don't think so.
    I think people just got outraged for no reason and joined the Twitter mob and got involved in the snowball and can't get off.
    There was a great doc about that phenomenon on BBC last year. Can't remember what it was called.
    I think at this point to everyone knows it was just an ad and they have gone off the deep end for no reason, but they tweeted it and they can't untweet it now so have to carry on.
    It will just Peter out, until they next Twitter outrage event.
    No point arguing again at the outrage so just let it Peter out and enjoy it for the spectacle it was.
    This one will be used as an example for many a year.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,931 ✭✭✭Villa05


    I'm sure there was gentle persuasion for parents to be guarantors on loans during the last bubble.

    What it underlines really is that banks have learned little from the last bubble or worse that they have and are doing it all over again knowing there is no consequences for them.

    The sheep will just fall for it and bail them out again when it all goes belly up


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  • Posts: 24,774 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Villa05 wrote: »
    I'm sure there was gentle persuasion for parents to be guarantors on loans during the last bubble.

    What it underlines really is that banks have learned little from the last bubble or worse that they have and are doing it all over again knowing there is no consequences for them.

    The sheep will just fall for it and bail them out again when it all goes belly up

    I really am confused at how a bank offering very sensible advise "move home to save a deposit rather than insane rents" is the same as banks lending totally irresponsibly like they did prior to the recession. In fact it's the total opposite.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,168 ✭✭✭Ursus Horribilis


    Villa05 wrote: »
    I'm sure there was gentle persuasion for parents to be guarantors on loans during the last bubble.

    I think that's the ad I was thinking of a few posts back. I can't remember what bank it was though. It had actors in it and all and had a mild tone of melodrama about it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,931 ✭✭✭Villa05


    I really am confused at how a bank offering very sensible advise "move home to save a deposit rather than insane rents" is the same as banks lending totally irresponsibly like they did prior to the recession. In fact it's the total opposite.

    When your in a forest the leaves can hide the wood.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,408 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Villa05 wrote: »
    I really am confused at how a bank offering very sensible advise "move home to save a deposit rather than insane rents" is the same as banks lending totally irresponsibly like they did prior to the recession. In fact it's the total opposite.

    When your in a forest the leaves can hide the wood.
    ????


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,408 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Villa05 wrote: »
    I'm sure there was gentle persuasion for parents to be guarantors on loans during the last bubble.

    What it underlines really is that banks have learned little from the last bubble or worse that they have and are doing it all over again knowing there is no consequences for them.

    The sheep will just fall for it and bail them out again when it all goes belly up


    In 2007 banks giving 110% mortgages now banks saying you have to save up fora deposit. That is prudent and 1 think to stop people loosing loads


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,408 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Augeo wrote: »
    That's one outlook where as my parents are the exact opposite. I get asked regulalry how the job prospects are looking within commutable distance of home so that I can move back in home initially (with my oh) and then start building next door. They can't wait to have me back and seeing me everyday and of course having my help on the farm etc.

    You'll get that job near home eventually old boy.

    WOW someone give you a there how it could be an option to them is a childish comment. Why the strong reaction on some here to people who see this can be an option to some people or them so they can buy a house. Is it the fact they can actually do something do be able to buy a house


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,408 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Augeo wrote: »
    That's one outlook where as my parents are the exact opposite. I get asked regulalry how the job prospects are looking within commutable distance of home so that I can move back in home initially (with my oh) and then start building next door. They can't wait to have me back and seeing me everyday and of course having my help on the farm etc.

    You'll get that job near home eventually old boy.

    WOW someone give you a there how it could be an option to them is a childish comment. Why the strong reaction on some here to people who see this can be an option to some people or them so they can buy a house. Is it the fact they can actually do something do be able to buy a house


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,608 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    I reckon he is just jealous as he has a big mortgage and begrudges those who move home to save a bigger deposit.

    Nox, when you buy property at the right time, then rent it out at the right time, sell at the right time and buy again at the right time you end up with a small mortgage on a decent size house in a good area with decent sized gardens.

    So right now I've a way below average mortgage on a house that's worth (now) over 500k with room to build. I pay virtually no interest to the bank and it will be payed off in just over a decade. This situation has allowed me to follow pursuits and live a lifestyle that my pay packed wouldn't allow me to have.

    I did all this whilst you were talking about buying property at the right time, whilst you were talking about renting property and whilst you were talking about buying property at the right time.

    And you're still all talk.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,286 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Guys- if someone posts something you disagree with- refute it without attacking the poster. Calling other posters idiots, gobshítes or any other terminology- is not acceptable- and reflects very poorly on you as a poster- don't do it.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,245 ✭✭✭myshirt


    Some element of economics and finance should be compulsory in schools up to Leaving Cert. It is a big problem we have in Ireland, there is a severe lack of baseline financial competence or understanding of economics.

    Look at the public sector for example, if more could truly grasp how outrageous it is rather than relying on the Independent, I'm sure there would be corrective action.

    In any event, when it comes to housing, baby boomers, and early gen'x'ers, what we have seen in Ireland is an illusory superiority develop where people are mistakenly seeing their competence for greater than it is, sociologists would point to it as a metacognitive inability to face reality, instead just wishing to continue to convince yourself it was all you. Most do not realise what drove where the boomers and early gen'x'ers ended up and where they are today.

    How many businesses were 'found out' in the crash? How people were surprised? How many businesses just ran and worked but the owners never really understood the business, they just let the economy do the leg work for them.

    The plain fact is such is the recent history of Ireland, there has to be a rebalancing, CAT will need to go up and thresholds down, and that money ringfenced for others. PPR's will need to be taxed. As the aging population grows and the pipeline of those 'unemployed/underemployed during their 20's' comes on stream increasingly and increasingly, you will see this happen. The youth of Ireland were given a very bad shake, appallingly bad from their public sector colleagues looking to cling to the gravy train, yes, but a bad hand on a more macro level also from direct government intervention that benefited others, but for which they foot the bill, on top of paying the yield (as an example effectively paying the loan taken out to permit this investment property/capital allowance, but also paying the rent. Paying for your shopping, getting stopped outside the door, having it taken off you with no refund, and then getting charged for that shopping again in the parking lot, and then getting kicked in the balls before you cycle home on a bike with no saddle to eat an avocado)

    As this pensions timebomb comes closer, it will happen. Those in in public sector won't be smoking cigars and eating lobster on the backs of the youth forever. This intergenerational transfer of wealth highlighted by this ad is the shoots maybe, but it is brewing.


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