Season 7 Episode 6 "Beyond the Wall" - "Non book readers" - Spoilers from post 2

zzfh · 17-08-2017 05:49PM

What did he do? Give season finale spoilers?

OneOfThem Stumbled · 17-08-2017 06:16PM

mr_cochise wrote: »

So you have criticized the earlier seasons for pacing and the latest seasons as garbage. Why do you even watch it?
Yet you have gone out of your way to watch it, illegally, not contributing a penny to its production, and you call it garbage!

I never criticised the earlier seasons for pacing. I criticised them for stupidity, and it was never as stupid as it was this episode. And yes, I could barely watch this episode, I skipped about half of it (but I was glad I didn't miss out on the Giantsbane conversation with the Hound).

Mind you, the Spoils of War (two episodes ago) was great. Really top notch, the best that they have achieved in multiple seasons.

I'd rank this episode as about the same as Avengers 2 Age of Ultron. Made no sense, but lots of action and a villain that looked the part.

Why keep watching it? I hope that they can get back to as good as Spoils of War. I've also followed this series for several years now and sort of feel like seeing how it ends. I feel that this season is sort of spoiling the book Winds of Winter, but that's got no guarantee of ever being published. If it were to be published in a month's time, with guarantee that GRR would actually finish the book series, I'd probably just finish with the TV series altogether at this point.

I wouldn't consider contributing money towards it, in much the same way that I wouldn't pay for Alien 3, Godfather 3, or Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull. If I trip over them online I might take a gander and bitch about how they are crap (and those aforementioned films are absolute sh*te that don't give a damn about fans of their respective series), but I'd hardly go out of my way to watch them.

Although I suppose you could always say that something like Alien VS Predator Requiem is actually a great film and any complaints are null and void because it's fantasy sci-fi

14murphy · 17-08-2017 06:20PM

This is a fantasy show. Gendry running hundreds of kilometres through Arctic conditions, flying dragons melting dead man and ice lakes, Thhoros having seven wights lay on him but none bite him properly this I can all deal with. However the whole squad is sitting on an icy plateau on a frozen lake waiting for blondey and the lizards to come save the day. They're obviously freezing there nuts off and close to death. If only someone could magically make flames appear from nowhere and heat the whole crew up a little. Thats just not using common sense !

biggebruv · 17-08-2017 06:42PM

Hazys wrote: »

In the "Spoils of War" episode, you were constantly on the edge of your seat as you didn't know if the dragons and/or Dany would die or not. In this episode, you knew the dragons we going to save the day, there was no suspense when Jon Snow and his gang we running out of space on top of the rock. What was the point of Jon Snow "almost" dying? It seemed like a poorly executed shock value trick.

lol but one of the dragons did die and I didn't see that coming so i dont get you?

as for jon maybe to hammer home that he cannot die maybe he keeps coming back like the other guy with the eyepatch and it also showed dany really cared for him and showed dany that hes selfless and truly a good man

Paddy Cow · 17-08-2017 06:46PM

D3sperado wrote: »

The show has always had issues with 'teleportation' around Westeros, no point saying its only a season 7 issue. Ned and crew made it from Winterfell to Kings Landing in a single episode in season 1 so this has always been there in the show. Each scene is not necessarily meant to cover the same timeline, it could take place over hours, days or even weeks - It is whatever the story needs it to be.

In the first episode when they arrived at Winterfell, Robert wanted to go straight to the crypt to see Lyanna and Cersei said they had been riding for a month so it should wait. The next episode we see them travelling and it probably took the same length of time.

Pugzilla · 17-08-2017 06:54PM

zzfh wrote: »

What did he do? Give season finale spoilers?

Posted the supposed ending to season 8.

zzfh · 17-08-2017 07:22PM

Pugzilla wrote: »

Posted the supposed ending to season 8.

FFS, is there even leaks for that out yet?

Mr E · 17-08-2017 08:09PM

Looked like fanfic, to be honest.

Pugzilla · 17-08-2017 08:12PM

Yeah, the ending was too optimistic for GOT.

david75 · 17-08-2017 08:19PM

D3sperado wrote: »

The show has always had issues with 'teleportation' around Westeros, no point saying its only a season 7 issue. Ned and crew made it from Winterfell to Kings Landing in a single episode in season 1 so this has always been there in the show. Each scene is not necessarily meant to cover the same timeline, it could take place over hours, days or even weeks - It is whatever the story needs it to be.

No point complaining that Arya and the Hound spent a season wandering the Riverlands but X made it halfway across Westeros and back in an episode, they aren't intended to cover the same time period

The failure here is on the part of the audience I'm afraid. Events don't always correspond chronologically as they are depicted onscreen either. We just lazily expect them to because we've been trained to.

J. Marston · 17-08-2017 08:27PM

david75 wrote: »

The failure here is on the part of the audience I'm afraid. Events don't always correspond chronologically as they are depicted onscreen either. We just lazily expect them to because we've been trained to.

"Put away the ruler and stopwatch, enjoy the story." -GRRM

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Chronology_and_Distances

(Link contains a fan asking GRRM a question regarding a storyline that the show has long passed but is of particular significance to this episode since the scenarios are similar)

seligehgit · 17-08-2017 09:09PM

Jon did bend the knee whilst bedridden?

JamboMac · 17-08-2017 09:16PM

seligehgit wrote: »

Jon did bend the knee whilst bedridden?

Who wouldn't, in all fairness she did save him, but it feels like these 2 are gonna get together and create the baby that danyres thinks she can't have.

seligehgit · 17-08-2017 09:44PM

JamboMac wrote: »

Who wouldn't, in all fairness she did save him, but it feels like these 2 are gonna get together and create the baby that danyres thinks she can't have.

Yip definitely looks like they're going to get together.

Tigger · 17-08-2017 09:51PM

J. Marston wrote: »

Wiki says he's directed 7 episodes. S1E09-S2E02, S2E08, S2E10 and S7E06.

01-09 is Ned's last episode

flazio · 17-08-2017 10:10PM

seligehgit wrote: »

Yip definitely looks like they're going to get together.

If Jon finds out about his heritage before then I'm not sure that he will go along with it. Yes he's a Targeryen but he was raised in the north as a Stark and up there incest is most certainly frowned upon. It was through pursuing a powerful incessant couple that Jon's (foster) father lost his head.

Also, I reckon Qyburn is a stronger influence then we are seeing on screen.
I reckon Cersei pregnancy is fake and it's Qyburns idea.

MisterAnarchy · 17-08-2017 10:41PM

GavRedKing wrote: »

I know hes magic and all that but it would be some kick in the balls if in the next season he gets blasted by a dragon and walks through it.

Dragon glass should be the Night Kings weakness ,it was how he was created by the children of the forest ,it stands to reason that it can destroy him too just like the other white walkers.

Anytime there is a major battle the Night King is always watching at a distance with a few other white walkers .
He can be got at ,as there are no wights near him just drop a few good soldiers in armed to the teeth with dragon glass and Valyrian steel and you could eliminate him.
Once you destroy him ,all the white walkers and wights may fall as the magic that reanimated them/transformed them has been destroyed.

Of course he has a bloody dragon now though ..

errlloyd · 17-08-2017 11:11PM

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Of course he has a bloody dragon now though ..

Qyburns ballista + dragonglass arrow. Bye felicia?

pickarooney · 17-08-2017 11:11PM

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

Budget plain and simple between extra money for the higher up cast and all the cgi needed for this season

I don't understand how this works. Surely for a hugely successful show the more episodes they make the more that brings in?

And as for the cast, why should they dictate the number of episodes. What odds to them if they get paid the same amount for 7 episodes or 10?

It just makes them sound like greedy pricks who would have no problem denying millions of fans extra episodes for the sake of a.bit less work, which I don't believe is true.

So, they don't actually need to kill Viserion again, right? They 'just' have to off the Night King and the dragon will disintegrate.

Pugzilla · 17-08-2017 11:22PM

Jaime could continue living up to his name as the 'Kingslayer'.

He does have a Valyrian sword, Widow's Wail, after all.

Would be a bit random though, as he has no history with the NK.

Mousewar · 17-08-2017 11:24PM

Watched it there. So much happening but bizarrely my main thought was about poor Tyrion. I mean, how long has it been since he's had his hole? Poor dwarf must be half insane by now.

velo.2010 · 18-08-2017 12:05AM

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

Budget plain and simple between extra money for the higher up cast and all the cgi needed for this season

The reason for fewer episodes is purely logistical for Season 7. GOT operates two filming teams that work out of Belfast and one on the continent. In years previous there has usually been one big battle sequence which takes several weeks to film. So far, this season, we've had three huge sequences which have taken at least four weeks of filming that eat into the overall filming schedule.

If they're budgeting for anything its the cost of staffing crews for these long filming shoots. Note too, that we have more new locations this season, namely Dragonstone
.
As for rushing the plot along - again that's a result of limited time to film certain scenes. Earlier seasons were based in very particular sets which were built in Belfast and where most of the actors were based. More developing plotlines along with the ability of the crew to shoot more material, with most of the actors based in the same place, gave the series a deeper feel to it.

The show is thinner on plot now and the actors and crews are well spread out filming all the different sequences that it has had the effect of feeling like a different show.

I do agree that the writing has suffered notwithstanding the above. Whether the writers are lost without the source material or it is simply the problem of tying up all the loose ends to a long and complicated story - the difficult final act, so to speak - I'm not sure.

Barnavave · 18-08-2017 12:17AM

I haven't read through the previous 18 or so pages of this thread, but surely I can't be alone in thinking that GoT and in particular S7, things have gone downhill very, very quickly. The leaked episode, was just a repeat of the Battle of the Bastards on thin ice, with added dragons. It's just heading for the Hollywood ending and is becoming all too predictable.
Capturing a Wight to take to Cersei? Seriously? Risk some of the main characters to prove something to someone that you are going to kill at the first opportunity.
It was like an episode of Star Trek, you knew some of the away team would die, but not the main men.
Send a raven, I wish my broadband was that fast. Carcetti should have stayed in Baltimore, his accent wasn't as wonky.

DANNY2014 · 18-08-2017 12:29AM

I'm thinking the vision bran had back in season 6 of a dragon flying over kings landing you can see the dragons shadow could now be the nights king on viserion... Which would be huge if happened... Good episode and can definitely see Jon and Dany getting together maybe if they do have a child that will be azor ahai ( the prince that was promised)...

marcus001 · 18-08-2017 12:38AM

mr_cochise wrote: »

So you have criticized the earlier seasons for pacing and the latest seasons as garbage. Why do you even watch it?
Yet you have gone out of your way to watch it, illegally, not contributing a penny to its production, and you call it garbage!

I can only speak for myself but the only reason I watch these days is to find out what happens. I used to watch it as much for the brilliant dialogue and acting as I did the plot, now it's only curiosity and a desire to get my money's worth after watching the last 6 seasons. Still though I feel like I'm watching the cliff notes of the last two books unfold. I also feel like it's a total money grab at this point.

False Prophet · 18-08-2017 12:39AM

buswankers wrote: »

Sorry now but have to ask, why did Sansa (or Arya impersonating Sansa) send Brienne away? I didnt quite understand that. I will be rewatching later but just didnt quite get why she did that? Am I being thick?!

Pure speculation:
Littlefinger who never says anything without a reason mentioned that Brienne is honour bound to protect both Sansa and Arya.
So by sending Brienne + her loyal servant guy away it means that there is no-one to stop Sansa doing something to Arya (lock her up etc what littlefinger wants/plans)

But its all a bluff from Sansa and she wants littlefinger to think that she is listening to him and she is actual playing him.

marcus001 · 18-08-2017 12:42AM

D3sperado wrote: »

The show has always had issues with 'teleportation' around Westeros, no point saying its only a season 7 issue. Ned and crew made it from Winterfell to Kings Landing in a single episode in season 1 so this has always been there in the show. Each scene is not necessarily meant to cover the same timeline, it could take place over hours, days or even weeks - It is whatever the story needs it to be.

No point complaining that Arya and the Hound spent a season wandering the Riverlands but X made it halfway across Westeros and back in an episode, they aren't intended to cover the same time period

The problem with the teleportation in this episode is that it wasn't just skipping travel, it was physically impossible given the events that were ongoing at the time.

Jon and co were sitting on that island for at most a day (if they intended it to be two or three days they should have found a way to let us know that time had passed) and in that time Gendry ran back to Eastwatch, sent a raven to Dany, Dany flew to the island and saved them. All in the time it took a lake of ice to freeze over again (stronger than it was before they got there). It really wouldn't have been hard to make it all make sense to the viewer, it's just pure laziness on the part of the writers.

marcus001 · 18-08-2017 12:45AM

False Prophet wrote: »

Pure speculation:
Littlefinger who never says anything without a reason mentioned that Brienne is honour bound to protect both Sansa and Arya.
So by sending Brienne + her loyal servant guy away it means that there is no-one to stop Sansa doing something to Arya (lock her up etc what littlefinger wants/plans)

But its all a bluff from Sansa and she wants littlefinger to think that she is listening to him and she is actual playing him.

I hope you're right. If Sansa doesn't get one over on Littlefinger by the end of this her character development was a complete waste of time.

matrim · 18-08-2017 12:50AM

marcus001 wrote: »

The problem with the teleportation in this episode is that it wasn't just skipping travel, it was physically impossible given the events that were ongoing at the time.

Jon and co were sitting on that island for at most a day (if they intended it to be two or three days they should have found a way to let us know that time had passed) and in that time Gendry ran back to Eastwatch, sent a raven to Dany, Dany flew to the island and saved them. All in the time it took a lake of ice to freeze over again (stronger than it was before they got there). It really wouldn't have been hard to make it all make sense to the viewer, it's just pure laziness on the part of the writers.

That was the biggest problem with that scene for me. All they needed was the hound to say something like "I'm sick of those c*nting ugly c*unts starting at us for 2 days" before throwing the rock.

GottaGetGatt · 18-08-2017 12:57AM

I still can't see Cersei helping fight the Night King even when she sees the wight. Jamie on the other HAND more then likely will and probably head back up North with Jon. Can't see anyone major being killed off this seson other then Littlefinger. Posssibility of The Hound vs Zombie Mountain for the final episode I hope. His conversation with Tormund about Brienne was hilarious.

Season 7 Episode 6 "Beyond the Wall" - "Non book readers" - Spoilers from post 2

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