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“Google’s Ideological Echo Chamber” memo goes viral, usual suspects outraged

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  • Options
    #32
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,560 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Usual suspects outraged on boards too I see.


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    #33
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Biggest lickspittle on boardz wrote: »
    Funnily enough, one of the 'outraged' Google employees is already throwing a tantrum and threatening to quit because someone broke the echo chamber. I trust you'll offer them the same advice?

    https://twitter.com/rakyll/status/893287112732291072

    You mean find another job? That's exactly what they say there going to so. So there already doing what I suggested people go do.

    BTW, your just confirming what I said early, the political screed is causing trouble with other employees.

    Probably doesn't look good to the people investigating Google for under paying female employees either.

    A lot of trouble due to one engineer being unable to act like an adult and do there job.


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    #34
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,671 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    I find the refrain that the engineer should in essence knuckle down and not rock the boat about the constant politicisation of his/her workplace not at all surprising. This is in line with do as I say not as I do that Progressive always project on their ideological oppenents.
    In context, from its earliest days (as per the excellent book “How Google works”) this company has had a policy of “Don’t be evil” and has in cases walked away from economically important markets, such as China, so as not to compromise this. On the other, Google (as the owner of Youtube) has of last week been increasing its use of Shadowbanning/Locking out prominent creators who are not part of the politically mainstream - such as Dr. Jordan Peterson.
    Either way, the IT industry appears to be one of main friction points in the Culture debate.


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    #35
    Silver Lynel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 104 ✭✭Silver Lynel


    super_furry wrote: »
    Reads like the kind of manifesto that the alt-right lads around here would love.

    Why is it "alt-right" and not just "right"?

    I'm not sure I understand the difference.


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    #36
    SterlingArcher
    Registered Users Posts: 2,767 ✭✭✭SterlingArcher


    I love the irony of it all. Diversity training to try get people to understand that people are different and accept those differences. Yet suspension of accounts of people that think differently.

    Nothing irrational to see here.


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    #37
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,166 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Efffin snowflakes.

    You don't HAVE to work for Google.


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    #38
    somefeen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,657 ✭✭✭somefeen


    I admit I only skim read it but its not exactly Mein Kampf.


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    #39
    LionelNashe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭LionelNashe


    I thought that was a very well-argued piece, even if some of the premises were doubtful. Echo chambers are a real problem for the left and the right. I think the problem is worst in the US but the internet is spreading it. Every time I see an Irish poster on an Irish thread accusing somebody of being alt-right or a snowflake I groan.

    I especially liked this bit:
    Left Biases
    • Compassion for the weak
    • Disparities are due to injustices
    • Humans are inherently cooperative
    • Change is good (unstable)
    • Open
    • Idealist

    Right Biases
    • Respect for the strong/authority
    • Disparities are natural and just
    • Humans are inherently competitive
    • Change is dangerous (stable)
    • Closed
    • Pragmatic

    I'm still scratching my head about whether positive discrimination is a good thing or not. I'm sure that discrimination from unconscious biases is real, but I think the solution is to get rid of the unconscious biases, rather than to try and counter them by introducing another form of discrimination. Maybe the effect would be the same in either case though.


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    #40
    Biggest lickspittle on boardz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 558 ✭✭✭Biggest lickspittle on boardz


    Well this is a troubling development.
    I did a little bit of digging, and it turns out Google has assembled a crack squad of the most extreme, mentally unstable, and highly irrational fanatics from the regressive left and is now working with them to 'fight online abuse'. (i.e. censor everyone they don't like).
    We're talking intellectual midgets like Zoe Quinn, Anita Sarkeesian, and a host of other social justice warriors that you wouldn't leave your kids with.

    Nothing to see here, folks. Just normal, rational, totally not radical elements having access to the largest information control platform on the planet. They totally won't abuse their position to push their politics onto users.

    https://twitter.com/jigsawteam/status/646783722570682369?lang=en



    Things are starting to make sense now. No wonder people are fed up.


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    #41
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,714 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Biggest lickspittle on boardz wrote: »
    Nope. A company cannot discriminate on the grounds of their employees political views. Punishing employees because of their (non-hateful) political views is a major no-no.
    Also, a company is responsible to its shareholders and clients. Therefore, transparency is in their best interests.

    Ahh, sez who?

    I don't know American employment law, but in Ireland the things you cannot discriminate on are listed below (source). Ethical beliefs, political beliefs and political party membership are not included. This means they are fair game: employers CAN discriminate based on these.

    As for saying that people should just leave their beliefs at the door and do their job. Huh? Maybe it works if you're a network engineer or similar technical role. But if you're any kind of manager or in a role with any kind of soft decisions, then it's not possible. Hell ... even if you're a network engineer, unconscious bias can affect what you do - eg if you have an underlying belief that first-language English speakers are better at their jobs, you'll likely take less notice of questions raised by non-native English speakers, even if those questions are the very issues you're supposed to fix.


    What you cannot discriminate on in Ireland:
    • Gender: this means man, woman or transsexual
    • Civil status: includes single, married, separated, divorced, widowed people, civil partners and former civil partners
    • Family status: this refers to the parent of a person under 18 years or the resident primary carer or parent of a person with a disability
    • Sexual orientation: includes gay, lesbian, bisexual and heterosexual
    • Religion: means religious belief, background, outlook or none
    • Age: this does not apply to a person aged under 16
    • Disability: includes people with physical, intellectual, learning, cognitive or emotional disabilities and a range of medical conditions
    • Race: includes race, skin colour, nationality or ethnic origin
    • Membership of the Traveller community.


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    #42
    FraR
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 69 ✭✭FraR


    I saw what some news outlets were saying about this and I'm kinda pissed. He didn't say "diversity is bad" he said diversity mandates that discriminate against certain groups are bad. He didn't say "all women value people and men things" he said men and women value those things relatively in relation to each other. People are not reading this article except for where he violates their own biases, namely in suggesting that biological differences between men and women exist. Even if he is wrong about some of the claims he made, they were made in the most respectful method possible. The hostile reaction to this is the best evidence that he is onto something.


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    #43
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    When they say diversity they mean left wing group think, ostracizing others who disagree, left wing views only.


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    #44
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Biggest lickspittle on boardz wrote: »
    Well this is a troubling development.
    I did a little bit of digging, and it turns out Google has assembled a crack squad of the most extreme, mentally unstable, and highly irrational fanatics from the regressive left and is now working with them to 'fight online abuse'. (i.e. censor everyone they don't like).
    We're talking intellectual midgets like Zoe Quinn, Anita Sarkeesian, and a host of other social justice warriors that you wouldn't leave your kids with.

    Nothing to see here, folks. Just normal, rational, totally not radical elements having access to the largest information control platform on the planet. They totally won't abuse their position to push their politics onto users.

    https://twitter.com/jigsawteam/status/646783722570682369?lang=en



    Things are starting to make sense now. No wonder people are fed up.

    So nice of you to ignore your sides stalking, death and rapes threats against these Women. Not to mention the potentially deadly swatting campaign's. Sure nothing to see here, alt right hate campaign's clearly don't exist for you. Tells us a lot when people ignore why these people are there in the first place.


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    #45
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    Biggest lickspittle on boardz wrote: »
    Well this is a troubling development.
    I did a little bit of digging, and it turns out Google has assembled a crack squad of the most extreme, mentally unstable, and highly irrational fanatics from the regressive left and is now working with them to 'fight online abuse'. (i.e. censor everyone they don't like).
    We're talking intellectual midgets like Zoe Quinn, Anita Sarkeesian, and a host of other social justice warriors that you wouldn't leave your kids with.

    Nothing to see here, folks. Just normal, rational, totally not radical elements having access to the largest information control platform on the planet. They totally won't abuse their position to push their politics onto users.

    https://twitter.com/jigsawteam/status/646783722570682369?lang=en



    Things are starting to make sense now. No wonder people are fed up.
    It's people like that which is why Trump won. People being told for years what to do, what to say, how to think, what is acceptable to say, everyone is racist if you disagree, capitalism is evil and the people outside the left wing enclaves had just had enough and so much so they voted in a reality tv star to be President. 

    I always said the people who are responsible for Trump are the ones who hate him most and whined the most after the result, it's their fault.


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    #46
    Biggest lickspittle on boardz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 558 ✭✭✭Biggest lickspittle on boardz


    wes wrote: »
    So nice of you to ignore your sides stalking, death and rapes threats against these Women. Not to mention the potentially deadly swatting campaign's. Sure nothing to see here, alt right hate campaign's clearly don't exist for you. Tells us a lot when people ignore why these people are there in the first place.

    What the fcuk do you mean by 'your side stalking, death and rape threats against these Women'? I'll give you one chance to edit that.


  • Options
    #47
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Biggest lickspittle on boardz wrote: »
    What the fcuk do you mean by 'your side stalking, death and rape threats against these Women'? I'll give you one chance to edit that.

    Why would I do that? Why have you chosen to ignore the rape and death threats that these women recieve? You know the reason they are there in the first place. Also, whether you like it or not the death and rapes threats came from people opposed to feminism, you can't really pretend otherwise.

    Explain why you have chosen to ignore the facts or the ongoing threats against these women.


  • Options
    #48
    Malayalam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭Malayalam


    wes wrote: »
    Why would I do that? Why have you chosen to ignore the rape and death threats that these women recieve? You know the reason they are there in the first place. Also, whether you like it or not the death and rapes threats came from people opposed to feminism, you can't really pretend otherwise.

    Explain why you have chosen to ignore the facts or the ongoing threats against these women.

    Though she is not my favourite human Katie Hopkins has been threatened to be raped with a machete, plus other awful threats. Threats of rape or murder come from all sides to all sides, so don't ''pretend otherwise''.


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    #49
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    wes wrote: »
    Biggest lickspittle on boardz wrote: »
    What the fcuk do you mean by 'your side stalking, death and rape threats against these Women'? I'll give you one chance to edit that.

    Why would I do that? Why have you chosen to ignore the rape and death threats that these women recieve? You know the reason they are there in the first place. Also, whether you like it or not the death and rapes threats came from people opposed to feminism, you can't really pretend otherwise.

    Explain why you have chosen to ignore the facts or the ongoing threats against these women.
    They came from lunatics first and foremost. A bit like Linda Sarsour and the other left wing loonballs.


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    #50
    Silver Lynel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 104 ✭✭Silver Lynel


    wes wrote: »
    So nice of you to ignore your sides stalking, death and rapes threats against these Women. Not to mention the potentially deadly swatting campaign's. Sure nothing to see here, alt right hate campaign's clearly don't exist for you. Tells us a lot when people ignore why these people are there in the first place.

    I asked this further up the thread and never got a reply. Maybe you have answers?

    Why is it "alt right" and not just "right"? I'm not sure I understand the difference.

    Other questions I have for you:

    Are there women on the alt-right?
    Do people (men or women) on the alt-right get any kind of harassment and abuse?

    If the alt-right is that posters side and the left (alt-left?) is your side then are you aware of any bad behavior coming from your side and do you ignore that behavior?


  • Options
    #51
    Silver Lynel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 104 ✭✭Silver Lynel


    wes wrote: »
    Why would I do that? Why have you chosen to ignore the rape and death threats that these women recieve? You know the reason they are there in the first place. Also, whether you like it or not the death and rapes threats came from people opposed to feminism, you can't really pretend otherwise.

    Explain why you have chosen to ignore the facts or the ongoing threats against these women.

    As another poster mentioned, people like Katie Hopkins get threats all the time. Where do you stand on that?

    You have clearly picked a side here but it looks like both sides consist of some pretty awful individuals. So why pick a side at all?

    I hope your answer isn't something like "well, both sides are bad but my side isn't as bad as their side".


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    #52
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Think like me or get out, for I have the monopoly on truth.

    Progressive is the new Conservative.

    The King is dead. Long live the King.


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    #53
    FraR
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 69 ✭✭FraR


    BBC reporting that Google fired him.


  • Options
    #54
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Biggest lickspittle on boardz wrote: »
    Well this is a troubling development.
    I did a little bit of digging, and it turns out Google has assembled a crack squad of the most extreme, mentally unstable, and highly irrational fanatics from the regressive left and is now working with them to 'fight online abuse'. (i.e. censor everyone they don't like).
    We're talking intellectual midgets like Zoe Quinn, Anita Sarkeesian, and a host of other social justice warriors that you wouldn't leave your kids with.

    Nothing to see here, folks. Just normal, rational, totally not radical elements having access to the largest information control platform on the planet. They totally won't abuse their position to push their politics onto users.

    https://twitter.com/jigsawteam/status/646783722570682369?lang=en



    Things are starting to make sense now. No wonder people are fed up.

    And we're off. Why bother using intelligent counter argument when you can just throw out the "social justice warrior" bogeyman?


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    #55
    Hande hoche!
    Registered Users Posts: 7,453 ✭✭✭Hande hoche!


    FraR wrote: »
    BBC reporting that Google fired him.
    He should get a job with Microsoft.


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    #56
    conorhal
    Registered Users Posts: 6,986 ✭✭✭conorhal


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Ahh, sez who?

    I don't know American employment law, but in Ireland the things you cannot discriminate on are listed below (source). Ethical beliefs, political beliefs and political party membership are not included. This means they are fair game: employers CAN discriminate based on these.

    As for saying that people should just leave their beliefs at the door and do their job. Huh? Maybe it works if you're a network engineer or similar technical role. But if you're any kind of manager or in a role with any kind of soft decisions, then it's not possible. Hell ... even if you're a network engineer, unconscious bias can affect what you do - eg if you have an underlying belief that first-language English speakers are better at their jobs, you'll likely take less notice of questions raised by non-native English speakers, even if those questions are the very issues you're supposed to fix.


    What you cannot discriminate on in Ireland:
    • Gender: this means man, woman or transsexual
    • Civil status: includes single, married, separated, divorced, widowed people, civil partners and former civil partners
    • Family status: this refers to the parent of a person under 18 years or the resident primary carer or parent of a person with a disability
    • Sexual orientation: includes gay, lesbian, bisexual and heterosexual
    • Religion: means religious belief, background, outlook or none
    • Age: this does not apply to a person aged under 16
    • Disability: includes people with physical, intellectual, learning, cognitive or emotional disabilities and a range of medical conditions
    • Race: includes race, skin colour, nationality or ethnic origin
    • Membership of the Traveller community.

    "Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Communist Party?"


    It seems that the only thing that the left ever learned from McCarthyism was how best to silence and de-platform your ideological opponents and ringfence their purse puppies like protected species.


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    #57
    BrokenArrows
    Registered Users Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭BrokenArrows


    Requiring gender equality in the IT sector is stupid and unrealistic.

    Women do not have the same natural desire or talent to be involved in IT, thats not saying that some are very talented and the best in their IT field but the majority have no interest in it.

    So desiring an equal number of men and women to be working in the same roles for the same money is impossible.

    Speaking from my first hand experience most women who work in IT roles are sub-par to their male colleagues who have the same experience but at the same time i work with 2 women who are far better than me or any of the other guys.

    You dont see anyone complaining that Nursing is dominated by Women and there should be gender equality in that field!!

    Gender pay gap is bull****. Everyone is offered a job and a salary. If a women accepts the salary they are offered then that is their problem. If they dont negotiate then thats their failure.


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    #58
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Biggest lickspittle on boardz wrote: »
    Diversity is meant to involve everyone, including those that you don't like.
    Freezing out conservatives because you dislike them is pathetic, dangerous, and discrimination.

    Conservatives tend to freeze themselves out, because diversity is an anti-Conservative idea.

    Should they be allowed have their voices heard? Absolutely. But the idea that their ideas are given equal weight is actually anti Conservative and anti liberal at the same time.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #59
    Ubbquittious
    Registered Users Posts: 6,188 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    Google are hard at work replacing everyone with robots and these petty squabbles about gender are just a distraction from the fact that in a few years Google will have very few human employees and just a few lads like Eric Schmidt at the top raking in billions a day in profit.


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    #60
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    FraR wrote: »
    BBC reporting that Google fired him.

    It feels harsh, why not to let him be whatever he thinks.

    Until you put your corporate hat on. He's made himself impossible to put on teams, people will refuse to work with him if he made it clear he sees them or other colleagues as inferior before they even open their mouths. And you can't make them: if he publicly expressed prejudice it would be an open & shut bullying case if you forced anyone to work with him, even more so if he is in any kind of decision making roles.

    He's turned himself into a legal liability from a staffing perspective which he must have been aware of, especially if he was anyone above a foot soldier. My guess is that he was on his way out anyway and wanted to go out with a bang? He might have some plans where he actually needs the notoriety.


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    #61
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,848 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Brian? wrote: »
    Conservatives tend to freeze themselves out, because diversity is an anti-Conservative idea.

    What does that mean , forced diversity and quotas is an anti-conservative idea, Conservatives are more interested in a quality of the individual not what group they "belong" too

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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