Female priests in the Roman Catholic Church ....

martingriff · 18-07-2017 01:02AM

hinault wrote: »

Your claim to be Catholic is contradicted by your opposing the clear teaching of the Catholic Church concerning apostolic succession. If you accept church teaching, then you are Catholic. If you reject church teaching, you are not Catholic. You reject church teaching...............

The gospel of St.Luke is actually very very clear on this. Chapter 9 explicitly states that Jesus personally bestowed power and authority upon the 12 only.

St.Luke doesn't refer to Jesus bestowing power and authority upon anyone else. If Jesus did bestow power and authority, wouldn't St.Luke's gospel explicitly state this in other parts of the gospel, as it did in Chapter 9?

Why didn't Luke explicitly refer to Jesus bestowing power and authority to people other than the 12? The gospel doesn't state it because it did not happen. If it did happen, Luke would have told us so. And certainly if it happened in the way it happened in chapter 9, Luke would have told us so.

To the 72 Jesus says as per Luke 10:09 Heal the sick who are there and tell them, ‘The kingdom of God has come near to you. and again in Luke 10:19I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy.

That seems like bestowing power on others. As for going against the teaching of the church many have gone against the teaching of the Catholic Church such no more Limbo unbaptized children can now be buried in normal graveyards. Unmarried mothers are no longer look down upon in disdain. The church is allways changing and I think questioning and speaking one mind is good for the church rather then blindly following along.

martingriff · 18-07-2017 01:03AM

hinault wrote: »

You'll be able to cite where the gospel says that only Aramaic-speaking Israelite Jews, need apply.

You'll be able to cite where the gospel says that only males, need apply not that his first 12 were men so ergo they all have to be men

martingriff · 18-07-2017 01:05AM

hinault wrote: »

Because Jesus was and is God incarnate, we believe that Jesus is omnipotent and transcendent.
Therefore in creating His church, Jesus would have willed it that women be admitted to the priesthood.

The gospel accounts are clear. Jesus, God-incarnate, personally only called men to His ministry.

If you accept that Jesus is God-incarnate, He is therefore omnipotent and transcendent. He therefore foresaw everything. If He willed it, He would have personally ordained a woman in to His ministry. It is only reasonable to assume therefore that He willed that only men serve His priesthood.

Can we also accept that the bible we have today was put together by the omitting pieces. How so we know there was no females.

Darkglasses · 18-07-2017 01:07AM

martingriff wrote: »

You'll be able to cite where the gospel says that only males, need apply not that his first 12 were men so ergo they all have to be men

If He willed Irishmen to be priests, He would have personally ordained a celibate, Irishman in to His ministry.

hinault · 18-07-2017 01:09AM

martingriff wrote: »

To the 72 Jesus says as per Luke 10:09 Heal the sick who are there and tell them, ‘The kingdom of God has come near to you. and again in Luke 10:19I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy.

Nice try.

Chapter 9 refers to the 12 - the 12 appointed by Jesus personally - be commanded to heal the sick, to preach the kingdom of God.

Chapter 9 and Chapter 10 are quantitatively and qualitatively different because Jesus personally appointed the 12, and personally bestowed authority and power upon them and no one else.

Chapter 10 does not include any reference to Jesus personally bestowing power and authority.
If He had done so, Chapter 10 would have said so. Chapter 10 doesn't.

martingriff wrote: »

As for going against the teaching of the church many have gone against the teaching of the Catholic Church such no more Limbo unbaptized children can now be buried in normal graveyards. Unmarried mothers are no longer look down upon in disdain

Martin, you reject church teaching. You've said you reject church teaching.

A catholic accepts church teaching.

hinault · 18-07-2017 01:14AM

martingriff wrote: »

Can we also accept that the bible we have today was put together by the omitting pieces. How so we know there was no females.

Not really interested in discussing these sort of conspiracy theories either.

martingriff · 18-07-2017 01:18AM

hinault wrote: »

Nice try.

Chapter 9 refers to the 12 - the 12 appointed by Jesus personally - be commanded to heal the sick, to preach the kingdom of God.

Chapter 9 and Chapter 10 and quantitatively and qualitatively different because Jesus personally appointed the 12, and personally bestowed authority and power upon them.

Chapter 10 does not include any reference to Jesus personally bestowing power and authority.
If He had done so, Chapter 10 would have said so. Chapter 10 doesn't.

Martin, you reject church teaching. You've said you reject church teaching.

A catholic accepts church teaching.

Nice try how about you read Luke 10 as the first sentence is After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go. 2 He told them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field.

So yes the Lord appointed the 72. Is that not Jesus. Who says we cant question the Catholic church Pope Francis has opened sinoids to debate the teching. Not sure of your parish but ours were invite to submit thoughts to our bishop through our priest. This is on going. Didn't Pope Francis himself in his First Holy Thursday mass was the feet of women

martingriff · 18-07-2017 01:19AM

hinault wrote: »

Not really interested in discussing these sort of conspiracy theories either.

You really think thats a conspiract theory. They removed 14 books

hinault · 18-07-2017 01:20AM

martingriff wrote: »

Nice try how about you read Luke 10........

It's how the church, who's teachings you reject, reads it Martin.

Have you asked the Eastern Orthodox churches why they don't ordain women?

hinault · 18-07-2017 01:21AM

martingriff wrote: »

You really think thats a conspiract theory. They removed 14 books

:rolleyes:

martingriff · 18-07-2017 01:22AM

hinault wrote: »

It's how the church, who's teachings you reject, reads it Martin.

Have you asked the Eastern Orthodox churches why they don't ordain women?

No but I could ask have you asked the Protestant Church why they ordain women

hinault · 18-07-2017 01:25AM

martingriff wrote: »

No but I could ask have you asked the Protestant Church why they ordain women

What protestants do within their denomination is of zero-interest to me, Martin.

martingriff · 18-07-2017 01:30AM

hinault wrote: »

What protestants do within their denomination is of zero-interest to me, Martin.

So the Eastern Orthodox churches because they don't ordain woman interest you I should ask them yet we I say why don't you ask Protestants why they ordain women it has zero interest to you so why should you. :rolleyes:

hinault · 18-07-2017 01:36AM

martingriff wrote: »

So the Eastern Orthodox churches because they don't ordain woman interest you I should ask them yet we I say why don't you ask Protestants why they ordain women it has zero interest to you so why should you. :rolleyes:

I don't reject the gospels, nor do I reject church teaching.

Therefore whatever protestants hold remains of zero interest to me, Martin.

The Eastern Orthodox churches have stayed faithful to the only Church founded by Jesus Christ in that regard, whatever about other regards.

FanadMan · 18-07-2017 01:46AM

Tomorrow, if the pope decreed that women could become priests, would people accept it? He is, after all the voice of God on earth.

hinault · 18-07-2017 01:48AM

FanadMan wrote: »

Tomorrow, if the pope decreed that women could become priests, would people accept it? He is, after all the voice of God on earth.

The Pope would have to justify the lifting of the ordination embargo.

martingriff · 18-07-2017 01:50AM

hinault wrote: »

I don't reject the gospels, nor do I reject church teaching.

Therefore whatever protestants hold remains of zero interest to me, Martin.

The Eastern Orthodox churches have stayed faithful to the only Church founded by Jesus Christ in that regard, whatever about other regards.

The Easter Orthodox reject our Pope they have there own. So if you believe in all teaching without question as you say you should reject the orthodox church.

martingriff · 18-07-2017 01:51AM

hinault wrote: »

The Pope would have to justify the lifting of the ordination embargo.

Nope the Pope is infallible so if he says it its true

hinault · 18-07-2017 01:53AM

martingriff wrote: »

The Easter Orthodox reject our Pope

You too reject the Church who's head is the Pope, Martin.

martingriff · 18-07-2017 01:54AM

Anyway I am out hinault. First you demand the gospel of Luke does not mention other been giving authority even when pointing it out. When I quote the passage to you you change the goalpost by saying it may say that but this is how the church tell you. There is no point in this discussion going forward

hinault · 18-07-2017 01:57AM

martingriff wrote: »

Nope the Pope is infallible so if he says it its true

No Martin, the Pope would have to first justify any decision to allow women to be ordained in to the priesthood.

Any such justification would be tested against tradition and scripture, and such justification would be found severely wanting.

The papacy has only invoked infallibility twice since it's inception.

martingriff · 18-07-2017 01:58AM

hinault wrote: »

You too reject the Church who's head is the Pope, Martin.

I question why which I have pointed out we are asked to due and at times the Church changes and adapt. The synods been 1 such example. Out newsletter at church had a full page on it Last Sunday and even our priest talked about it. So no the Church does not stop people from asking can there be women and why. At the moment it is only men and I accept that. What is wrong with asking questions. What is so wrong with that. Even Jesus encouraged questioning

hinault · 18-07-2017 02:00AM

martingriff wrote: »

Anyway I am out hinault. First you demand the gospel of Luke does not mention other been giving authority even when pointing it out. When I quote the passage to you you change the goalpost by saying it may say that but this is how the church tell you. There is no point in this discussion going forward

No Martin, you reject Scripture and reject church teaching. That is your own doing.

martingriff · 18-07-2017 02:01AM

hinault wrote: »

No Martin, the Pope would have to first justify any decision to allow women to be ordained in to the priesthood.

Any such justification would be tested against tradition and scripture, and such justification would be found severely wanting.

The papacy has only invoked infallibility twice since it's inception.

In your view to others maybe not.

martingriff · 18-07-2017 02:03AM

hinault wrote: »

No Martin, you reject Scripture and reject church teaching. That is your own doing.

No I am simply asking why not and giving an opinion on why I think this way. I do not reject the teaching we have now I do follow them however can you not question?

hinault · 18-07-2017 02:03AM

martingriff wrote: »

I question why which I have pointed out we are asked to due and at times the Church changes and adapt. The synods been 1 such example. Out newsletter at church had a full page on it Last Sunday and even our priest talked about it. So no the Church does not stop people from asking can there be women and why. At the moment it is only men and I accept that. What is wrong with asking questions. What is so wrong with that. Even Jesus encouraged questioning

The Church has declared upon this issue throughout the centuries, Martin.

The same heretical line that you peddle here today, has been peddled for centuries by many others who, like you, reject Scripture and who reject the Church and who reject the Pope.

hinault · 18-07-2017 02:04AM

martingriff wrote: »

In your view to others maybe not.

What others think is of more interest to you, than me, Martin.

hinault · 18-07-2017 02:07AM

martingriff wrote: »

No I am simply asking why not and giving an opinion on why I think this way. I do not reject the teaching we have now I do follow them however can you not question?

Martin, you're being disingenuous now.

You reject church teaching with regard to ordination. You've admitted so earlier.

martingriff · 18-07-2017 02:27AM

hinault wrote: »

martingriff wrote: »

No I am simply asking why not and giving an opinion on why I think this way. I do not reject the teaching we have now I do follow them however can you not question?

Martin, you're being disingenuous now.

You reject church teaching with regard to ordination. You've admitted so earlier.

Again a question was asked and I gavè my opinion of why I thought in the future women could be ordained due to a clear bit of text to me is Luck 10 1:23.

As of now only men can be priests and I accept that. If the Vatican chose to amend it then I can accept it can you.

Now I have asked you a question multiple times now and you have dodged it every time can people not question. Ask why get a debate going. If now why. What is so wrong with it

hinault · 18-07-2017 02:43AM

The debate was had centuries ago and throughout centuries since too. The question was settled.

Female priests in the Roman Catholic Church ....

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