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Would you be ok with white Irish becoming a minority?

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    #152
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    AnGaelach wrote: »
    Yeah, until it ends up somewhere like Malmo where white Swedish children are attacked in their schools for being the minority.

    Make no mistake, this isn't a harmless endeavour on the part of the Left, we're staring into the face of our own demise and some idiots are cheering for it.
    And we'll all go out to meet her when she comes, yeah we'll all go out to meet her when she comes:pac:

    The face of our own demise eh? You have a better grasp of the dramatic than most of the rest, I'll give you that at least


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    #153
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    It's odd to me that more than one of you has reponded to the list I posted of notable characteristics of fascist ideologies with the notion that 'yeah but The Left/Liberals are basically the same'.

    Why then do so many of you blame leftism/liberalism for the problems you perceive with immigration and give fairly standard right-wing solutions to these perceived problems?

    I mean, if they are basically the same thing why is one Bad and the other Good?


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    #154
    southstar
    Registered Users Posts: 465 ✭✭southstar


    B0jangles wrote: »
    It's odd to me that more than one of you has reponded to the list I posted of notable characteristics of fascist ideologies with the notion that 'yeah but The Left/Liberals are basically the same'.

    Why then do so many of you blame leftism/liberalism for the problems you perceive with immigration and give fairly standard right-wing solutions to these perceived problems

    I mean, if they are basically the same thing why is one Bad and the other Good?

    Bojangles I can see only a see two comments since your last post and neither particularly references immigration. I was just pointed how ideologically tied in people become to a variety of issues.Because of this I do think that on the left many ignore what I belive are huge and glaring social problems caused by large scale immigration


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    #155
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    B0jangles wrote: »

    I mean, if they are basically the same thing why is one Bad and the other Good?
    How about the blindingly obvious? Both are stupid.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #156
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    Humans have been racially tribal for around 100,000 years. Then all of a sudden in the 1970s, 80s and 90s a miniscule minority made a decision to tell the vast majority that your humanistic emotions are not valid. That your internal instinct of being tribal is not allowed anymore.

    30-40 odd years out 100,000. Every single human being is a racist. And 30 odd years of pretending that we are not racist aint going to change that. People feel more comfortable around their own tribe. It will take Millennia to change that.


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    #157
    alan partridge aha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,211 ✭✭✭alan partridge aha


    Wouldn't mind if they shared my right wing views.


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    #158
    Dr Crayfish
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,960 ✭✭✭Dr Crayfish


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    The results of this poll are such BS. If the gun was put to the head of the 'no' respondants tomorrow, and they were told 'we are making your street/neighbourhood/village/city a white irish minority area, they would change their stripes pretty quick.

    Its easy to answer a poll in such terms enjoying a Saturday of our cosy western lifestyle, when you know there is no realistic prospect of the premise coming to pass.

    I used to live in an area in London where pretty much everyone was from a different corner of the earth, and I loved it. Suburban Dublin is so bland and boring to me.
    I'm glad I don't have to give a sh*t about immigrants or what colour people are, why would I, it doesn't affect me in any way.


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    #159
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    No issue with it myself, I'm not sure why some feel like Laura and Sean that I went to school with are some kind of threat because they happen to have black dads.


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    #160
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Wibbs wrote: »
    What the actual fuck? The white man's culture must be eliminated eh? And what do you suggest it gets replaced by? This should be good. The level of self hate among some is beyond comprehension to me.
    I think maybe there is a case of slight oikophobia here.
    Xenophobia is fear of the alien; oikophobia is fear of the familiar.

    Maybe instead of importing the alien into Ireland these people should just go live where they like it better and is unfamiliar to Ireland. Try Somalia, Yemen, etc


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    #161
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,642 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    It was a bizarre list to bring up Bojangles. What relevance did it have to the thread, but because I disagree with you and Wall Street, have a position that many on the Left have traditionally held, that Bernie Sanders has I must be a Fascist.

    The Audit said so, so I can be safely assigned as being no different to people who thought nothing of throwing live babies in to an Oven.

    It is this sort of bat**** crazy that has come to dominate the left, it wasn't always there and the views it espouses are ones that decades ago were the preserve of the right. The more capitalist the Society the more open its approach to migration, the more Socialist a society the more control it demands over migration.

    There are too many on the left today and they tend to be younger ones who are all too similar to demented 1950s priests screaming from the Pulpit at the sinners out there.

    I know people who admire Mao, who can point out good points and things Stalin did, Mao left Hitler in his dust when it came to bodies and Stalin was his equal in depravity but I don't call them mass murdering bastards, it would ruin our quiet pint and chat but it wouldn't even occur to me to do so.


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    #162
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,037 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    I love how the left, in a bid to make the world more tolerant are the most intolerant of all. God forbid you dare have an opinion, you're compared to ****ing Hitler.

    I used to troll American forums as a teenager way before I understood republican/democrate and you'd be lead to believe republicans were diseased of the mind. Before I even understood completely what was what, I knew the liberals were far from liberal.

    Another thing that astounds me is the hate and self loathing people seem to display towards themselves and their culture and history. In America it's ok and encouraged to be proud of your history. Huge celebrations on the 4th of July, a day more important than Christmas for thanksgiving, children learning the pledge of allegiance in school from when they are tiny, the Stars and Stripes being displayed outside most homes.

    Speak to the normal down to earth English man and he'll be proud of his country too, no shame in the Union Jack and hates what the IRA stood for, understandably. I've been in pubs and at parties in the UK where guys having banter have brought up my accent/the ira. It's banter. Yes maybe it could be a bit offensive but whatever, i knew they weren't deliberately trying to offend me.

    But Ireland? Nah. West Brit apologists is how we come across. Don't get me wrong, the Ira in later years are and were an absolute disgrace but I feel in our past ordinary men and women pulled together to overcome power from the most powerful country in the world. They were persecuted, murdered, made homeless and stripped of their livelihoods, they were starved and treated so inhumanely. But you dare not bring that up because it's too far in the past to justify anything - except it's not. The British at the time reaped what they sowed and weren't too innocent in terrorism themselves - but that's not something that's accepted now. You should feel ashamed and sorry for the actions of those people, you should be quick to disassociate yourself from the belief you hold any understanding of the reasons why ordinary Irish people turned to guerrilla warfare.

    You can't open your mouth about Islam or the actions of Isis without being accused of being islamaphobic racist and intolerant, however the same people will be the first to demand to know why you identified as Catholic on your census form and are demanding the Catholic Church have no place in society such as public schools and public hospitals. But build all the mosques you like because you have to be tolerant.

    People wearing their county colours abroad or waving a tricolour at a concert are complete embarrassments and forget about hanging the tricolour outside your house you Ira supporting bastard.


    nice rant there. mostly lies though, lets examine.

    the "left" like the "right" are made up of a number of different groups of people with many different and varying opinions. like the far right, the far left are extremist in nature, but dispite being very vocal like the far right, they are in a minority.
    the supposed hate and self-loathing is i think for the most part in people's head. i'm sure the odd person practices it but i have never come across it. unfortunately there was a minority of knuckle draggers in britain who would have used the IRA to get at you. whether you could see it or not who knows but no doubt about it therre were some who hated the irish and they were very very vocal.
    the ira did what they had to do. did they commit war crimes, absolutely. was that wrong, absolutely. but did they need to fight, absolutely.
    the treatment of people by the british establishment as far back as it can go has been brought up a plenty and yes while there are those who try to shut down such discussion because it was in the past, they are usually ignored or challenged and the conversation continues.
    you absolutely can open your mouth about islam and the actions of isis without being accused of being islamaphobic racist and intolerant, plenty do it all the time and don't receive such accusations. however when it is clear that someone are exactly those then it is correct they are called out on that and their viewpoint challenged. it is absolutely legitimate to ask why someone who has nothing to do with a religion puts themselves down as that religion on the census form, they don't have to answer the question but it is ridiculous that someone would put themselves down as a religion they have little to nothing to do with. it is also legitimate to ask why we allow the catholic church to be involved in state services, and allow in turn 1 of those services to discriminate against people on the basis of their religion (some schools) . as far as many are concerned the same would apply to any other religion. however that has nothing to do with people being able to build places of worship, which is a different issue.
    i'm not sure who believes that People wearing their county colours abroad or waving a tricolour at a concert are complete embarrassments and that people who hang the tricolour outside their house are ira supporters.
    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    Humans have been racially tribal for around 100,000 years. Then all of a sudden in the 1970s, 80s and 90s a miniscule minority made a decision to tell the vast majority that your humanistic emotions are not valid. That your internal instinct of being tribal is not allowed anymore.

    30-40 odd years out 100,000. Every single human being is a racist. And 30 odd years of pretending that we are not racist aint going to change that. People feel more comfortable around their own tribe. It will take Millennia to change that.

    nope. society began to modernise and those who thought it was okay to discriminate against black and brown people, gays and so on were finally told they were wrong.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #163
    RustyNut
    Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    I lived in Yorkshire for a while. White irish were definitely a minority there. Great place to live.


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    #164
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    But EOTR, as a stranger on the internet, nobody has thecright to question another persons beliefs. If I identify as a catholic that's my personal belief and I should be free to hold that belief without being contradicted. It would not be tolerated towards any other religion. I agree with state schools being not affiliated with any religion but I also hold the Belief that religious nonsense have no place in a public state funded environment therefore bending over backwards for any religion or encouraging children or staff to wear religious garb should not be allowed.

    Hold whatever beliefs you like but religion has no place in public society.

    Also, can you please point out why you feel it's acceptable to label my viewpoint as "lies" and back your accusation up with the relevant evidence to prove your statement.


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    #165
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,642 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    But EOTR, as a stranger on the internet, nobody has thecright to question another persons beliefs. If I identify as a catholic that's my personal belief and I should be free to hold that belief without being contradicted. It would not be tolerated towards any other religion. I agree with state schools being not affiliated with any religion but I also hold the Belief that religious nonsense have no place in a public state funded environment therefore bending over backwards for any religion or encouraging children or staff to wear religious garb should not be allowed.

    Hold whatever beliefs you like but religion has no place in public society.

    Also, can you please point out why you feel it's acceptable to label my viewpoint as "lies" and back your accusation up with the relevant evidence to prove your statement.

    Another position that was mainstream on the left across Europe a few decades ago.

    Nowadays your view could get you in a lot of trouble.


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    #166
    Pac1Man
    Registered Users Posts: 4,394 ✭✭✭Pac1Man


    Definitely not ok with that. Humans are tribal and will be until they day we become extinct. I would prefer to belong in the biggest tribe.


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    #167
    fisgon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭fisgon


    Let's not pretend that this an actual possibility any time even in the medium term - Ireland is at the moment 95% white (85% white Irish). http://www.indexmundi.com/ireland/ethnic_groups.html

    There is zero prospect of white Irish people becoming a minority in our lifetimes. The question itself is a little scaremongery and is trying to stir up some racial fear.


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    #168
    Golfproam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 150 ✭✭Golfproam


    fisgon wrote: »
    Let's not pretend that this an actual possibility any time even in the medium term - Ireland is at the moment 95% white (85% white Irish). http://www.indexmundi.com/ireland/ethnic_groups.html

    There is zero prospect of white Irish people becoming a minority in our lifetimes. The question itself is a little scaremongery and is trying to stir up some racial fear.

    'in our lifetimes'. What about our kids lifetimes or our grandchildren's lifetimes? Nope, it is not scaremongering.


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    #169
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,037 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    But EOTR, as a stranger on the internet, nobody has thecright to question another persons beliefs.

    you have the right to question anything you like.
    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    If I identify as a catholic that's my personal belief and I should be free to hold that belief without being contradicted. It would not be tolerated towards any other religion.

    you are free to hold that belief without being contradicted. however if you claim to identify as catholic yet you have nothing to do with the religion, then realistically you actually aren't catholic and it makes no sense to put catholic down on the census form. you have the right to do it if you wish but it doesn't make any actual sense to do it.
    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    Also, can you please point out why you feel it's acceptable to label my viewpoint as "lies" and back your accusation up with the relevant evidence to prove your statement.

    i all ready did.
    Golfproam wrote: »
    'in our lifetimes'. What about our kids lifetimes or our grandchildren's lifetimes? Nope, it is not scaremongering.


    yes it is . hugely so. it's not going to happen.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #170
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Golfproam wrote: »
    'in our lifetimes'. What about our kids lifetimes or our grandchildren's lifetimes? Nope, it is not scaremongering.

    How many future generations are you expecting to protect with your racist views?


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    #171
    Golfproam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 150 ✭✭Golfproam


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    How many future generations are you expecting to protect with your racist views?

    The good old racist card. Vastly over played by the liberals and the leftists.


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    #172
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,037 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Golfproam wrote: »
    The good old racist card. Vastly over played by the liberals and the leftists.

    nope. not true i'm afraid.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #173
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Golfproam wrote: »
    The good old racist card. Vastly over played by the liberals and the leftists.

    Okay I'll put it another way so you can answer the question - your white Irish nationalist views


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    #174
    fisgon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭fisgon


    Golfproam wrote: »
    The good old racist card. Vastly over played by the liberals and the leftists.


    "Liberals, leftists...."

    Why not add...
    "East coast media elite,
    political correctness gone mad,
    Pinkoes
    Commies,
    Bleeding hearts,
    snowflakes,..."

    or any other lazy, Trumpist clichés you can think of, instead of actually making a clear, valid argument.


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    #175
    Golfproam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 150 ✭✭Golfproam


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    Okay I'll put it another way so you can answer the question - your white Irish Nationalist views

    Wrong again. Simply acknowledging the obvious. Islam does not, never has and never will integrate peacefully with Western culture.


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    #176
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,037 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Golfproam wrote: »
    Wrong again. Simply acknowledging the obvious. Islam does not, never has and never will integrate peacefully with Western culture.

    incorrect, islam is integrating peacefully with western culture. there is an issue with islamic fundamentalists but the majority of islam is peaceful.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #177
    fisgon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭fisgon


    Pac1Man wrote: »
    Definitely not ok with that. Humans are tribal and will be until they day we become extinct. I would prefer to belong in the biggest tribe.

    Humans can be tribal, and look what tribalism has given us - Ethnic cleansing in the Balkans, the Rwandan genocide, thirty years of murder in the North, Sunni and Shia killing each other, Muslims and Hindus attacking each other in India, and countless ethnic conflicts.

    It is one thing to say that human beings are tribal, another to say that we should just accept that as a given, with all of the poison that it brings with it. Many people like living in a multicultural environment, with all of the novelty and energy that that brings.


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    #178
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Golfproam wrote: »
    Wrong again. Simply acknowledging the obvious. Islam does not, never has and never will integrate peacefully with Western culture.

    So immigration is simply a concern on the grounds of one religion for you.


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    #179
    AnGaelach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭AnGaelach


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    Also, can you please point out why you feel it's acceptable to label my viewpoint as "lies" and back your accusation up with the relevant evidence to prove your statement.

    EotR has an estranged relationship with this concept of "evidence", your honour. Whenever he's asked to provide it, no matter the topic, he simply repeats what he said over and over again in the hopes you'll stop replying to him.


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    #180
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    fisgon wrote: »
    Many people like living in a multicultural environment, with all of the novelty and energy that that brings.
    Ah yeah, "novelty" and "energy", see the quaint people and their quaint ways.
    Me. Earlier. wrote:
    It beggars belief why any country would want to emulate that because "diversity". Mostly peddled by the "Ow wow Fintan, have you tried the new Uzbek restaurant" set. Like politicians, people who won't have to deal with any fallout of such a social experiment. Like the D4 types who will happily and loudly witter on about Traveller's rights, but will quietly and strongly object to planning for halting sites in their backyard.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #181
    AnGaelach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭AnGaelach


    fisgon wrote: »
    Let's not pretend that this an actual possibility any time even in the medium term - Ireland is at the moment 95% white (85% white Irish). http://www.indexmundi.com/ireland/ethnic_groups.html

    There is zero prospect of white Irish people becoming a minority in our lifetimes. The question itself is a little scaremongery and is trying to stir up some racial fear.

    It's 82% Irish and 92% white as of the Census 2016, a decline of 3% over 5 years. Contrasted to Islam which had a growth of 10 times that over the same period (an increase of 6% a year).

    England is ~80% white English/85% total white in 2011 and yet there are cities in England where they are already an ethnic minority.

    Personally, I don't think Irish people should be an ethnic minority anywhere in our own country.


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