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The Origin of Specious Nonsense. Twelve years on. Still going. Answer soon.

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Comments

  • #2672
    Absolam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    looksee wrote: »
    Do you mean to say that after all this time you have only just noticed this is the Atheism and Agnosticism forum? What else would we be doing but knocking the hell out of religion? As long as it continues to plague us and affect our lives we will continue to show what nonsense it is.
    I don't think knocking the hell out of religion is really a common occupation of atheists and agnostics, by and large. It's more a preoccupation of that little subset, anti-theists... and the forum hasn't (yet) been renamed, so you could understand some people being bemused by a good deal of the nonsense here. Specious or otherwise.


  • #2673
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    J C wrote: »
    "The lady doth protest too much, methinks.” :)

    ... and BTW that was from Shakespeare (Hamlet) ... just in case somebody starts accusing me of plagarising The Bard. :eek:

    Whils I appreciate that it must be annoying for you that some of his individual posts probably receive more thanks that you have received in total in you time on boards, you are being rather petty and juvenile here.

    There is also a distinct whiff of sour grapes..

    MrP


  • #2674
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,034 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Lucy8080 wrote: »
    Wow.

    Posters accused of drunkenness,again.

    I've seen the mob accuse J.C. of not having any notion of science, whilst an honest admittance by oldnwiser gets thanked for having an interest in the subject J.C. claims he works on.

    If this was reversed, folks would have to self-censor for breach of charter and would be skeptical of o,n,w.

    I don't believe in literalising biblical stories or dismissing out of hand these stories as "nothing to see here".

    But, are you guys reading your own stuff here?

    Oldrnwsr has consistently posted informative posts on the topic. I thanked him as it is impressive that it is a result of personal interest and reading.

    I really don't get the issue you and JC have with that???

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #2675
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    MrPudding wrote: »
    Whils I appreciate that it must be annoying for you that some of his individual posts probably receive more thanks that you have received in total in you time on boards, you are being rather petty and juvenile here.

    There is also a distinct whiff of sour grapes..

    MrP
    No problem with people thanking (or not thanking) posts ... it's when the thankers start behaving as a mob that it becomes obvious that a 'mutual admiration society' is in play.
    Again, I have no problem with that, if that is how Atheists want to behave ... but it does seem to be unique to Atheists ... there is no parallel by Chrisitians or other people of faith on the Boards.


  • #2676
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,394 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    J C wrote: »
    No problem with people thanking (or not thanking) posts ... it's when the thankers start behaving as a mob that it becomes obvious that a 'mutual admiration society' is in play.
    Again, I have no problem with that, if that is how Atheists want to behave ... but it does seem to be unique to Atheists ... there is no parallel by Chrisitians or other people of faith on the Boards.

    Don't mind them, JC. They're just a shower of thankers.


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  • #2677
    looksee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,739 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Mod:

    Ok, JC, one last time: (this is a warning)

    Cease with the victim posturing. You are not being ganged up on, its just that no-one agrees with you.

    This is A&A where the vast majority of A&As do not accept creationism. You are not going to change this, you are welcome to keep trying but there is no point sulking when you do not make any progress.

    Either get back on topic (which is not the same as soap-boxing) or take a little break - we can organise that for you.

    Everyone - stop the personal sniping, the thread is not about the injustices suffered by JC, its about creationism and associated topics.

    Take administrative issues to feedback - local or site.


  • #2678
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    Lucy8080 wrote:

    I've seen the mob accuse J.C. of not having any notion of science, whilst an honest admittance by oldnwiser gets thanked for having an interest in the subject J.C. claims he works on.
    Key word: claims. JC claims to be a scientist, but give no indication or evidence that he is one.

    MrP


  • #2679
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,908 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    J C wrote: »
    To a Christian, coming onto your forum, your constant knocking of religion is 'tedious' to them ... and, as I've already suggested ... somewhat counter-productive for you guys, depending on how ye would like to be perceived by society around ye.

    You come to an atheist forum in a country that is in the gradual process of turning its back on religion after very many decades where the church has abused its position of power in the most barbaric and insidious ways imaginable. It seems entirely reasonable to expect to see religion deeply criticised here, and rightly so.

    You then start make assertions about the creation of the universe that even most Christians would disagree with, and have every point you make and remake ad nauseum refuted in detail with extensive well supported references. When you continue to repeat these same points, you're met with derision. Again, this is to be expected. This may all seem rather tedious to you but maybe ask yourself how much your contributing to this tedium yourself?


  • #2680
    looksee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,739 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    I SAID...stop the bickering. Cards will be handed out.


  • #2681
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    looksee wrote: »
    I SAID...stop the bickering. Cards will be handed out.

    Happy to take a card or a ban for this, but this needs to be said.

    Are you still happy to say that JC posting in this forum has a value? Look back through the history of this forum and see how much trouble his posts have caused. And no JC, by trouble cause I don't mean you have caused trouble by giving us the truth, or by you amazing arguments.

    Also, I am fed up reading his ****ing delusional "look at me the victim, they can't stand hearing the truth from me so they try to silence me" posts.

    I love reading the posts rebutting his nonsense, and I think they are massively valuable. But there must be a way for us to still have access to post like that without having JC's delusional nonsense inflicted on the forum. In the past I did see the value in allowing him to post, I was of the same opinion, now though, years later, his utility in this respect is getting less.

    He is receiving special treatment, and I seriously don't think he deserves it. he is disruptive and divisive and his value to the forum is questionable, particularly since his last restriction to the delusional nonsense thread where all he has done is whine.

    Seriously mods. You need to sort this out. I love this forum but JC is killing it for me.

    MrP


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  • #2682
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    mickrock wrote: »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMVfafAYTMg



    The video outlines why Neo-Darwinism/The Selfish Gene as the primary explanation of evolution is specious nonsense. Denis Noble's main conclusions are the following:

    "The ‘Modern Synthesis’ (Neo-Darwinism) is a mid-20th century gene-centric view of evolution, based on random mutations accumulating to produce gradual change through natural selection. Any role of physiological function in influencing genetic inheritance was excluded. The organism became a mere carrier of the real objects of selection, its genes. We now know that genetic change is far from random and often not gradual. Molecular genetics and genome sequencing have deconstructed this unnecessarily restrictive view of evolution in a way that reintroduces physiological function and interactions with the environment as factors influencing the speed and nature of inherited change. Acquired characteristics can be inherited, and in a few but growing number of cases that inheritance has now been shown to be robust for many generations. The 21st century can look forward to a new synthesis that will reintegrate physiology with evolutionary biology."
    Yes, indeed Neo-Darwinian Evolution is just as invalid as the original Darwinian version.
    Dr Denis Noble really 'nails it' in the above video.
    Further proof that Darwinism is dead in the next video:-


  • #2683
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Here is another video which develops the evidence for the invalidity of Evolution ... and looks at current scientific explanations for life



    Mod: Video dump


  • #2684
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,394 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    JC, one video is 47 minutes long and the other is 30. Nobody is going to watch them.

    That's not discussion. Imagine if everyone did what you're doing, i.e. post videos without comment?


  • #2685
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Absolam wrote: »
    I don't think knocking the hell out of religion is really a common occupation of atheists and agnostics, by and large. It's more a preoccupation of that little subset, anti-theists... and the forum hasn't (yet) been renamed, so you could understand some people being bemused by a good deal of the nonsense here. Specious or otherwise.
    It seems that many Atheists not only don't believe that God (or gods) exist ... but if the God of the Bible does exist, they would reject Him and would have nothing to do with Him ... citing numerous negatives supposedly associated with Him.
    They're also deeply anti-religion and especially anti-christian, as a result of their views on the God of the Bible.
    I'm not sure whether this anti-God/Christian position is a new phenomenon amongst some Atheists ... or whether it has always existed.
    I'd be interested in getting the views of Atheists on this.


  • #2686
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,394 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    J C wrote: »
    It seems that many Atheists not only don't believe that God (or gods) exist ... but if the God of the Bible does exist, they would reject Him and would have nothing to do with Him ... citing numerous negatives supposedly associated with Him.
    They're also deeply anti-religion and especially anti-christian, as a result of their views on the God of the Bible.
    I'm not sure whether this anti-God/Christian position is a new phenomenon amongst some Atheists ... or whether it has always existed.
    I'd be interested in getting the views of Atheists on this.

    You are missing the point. Religion had, and in many countries continues to have, a very negative effect on those who chose not to believe in whatever religion was dominant. It often pervades every aspect of society.

    In Ireland, had Catholicism existed in such a way as to not impinge on the lives of atheists then I doubt if many atheists would pay any attention to Catholicism. For example, I don't really have much of an opinion on Hinduism simply because it hasn't impinged on my life.

    However, I have first hand experience on how religion has blighted my existence despite my never believing in Jesus. So I have an opinion on Catholicism. Turning the argument around, how does atheism impinge on the lives of Catholics?


  • #2687
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    You are missing the point. Religion had, and in many countries continues to have, a very negative effect on those who chose not to believe in whatever religion was dominant. It often pervades every aspect of society.

    In Ireland, had Catholicism existed in such a way as to not impinge on the lives of atheists then I doubt if many atheists would pay any attention to Catholicism. For example, I don't really have much of an opinion on Hinduism simply because it hasn't impinged on my life.

    However, I have first hand experience on how religion has blighted my existence despite my never believing in Jesus. So I have an opinion on Catholicism. Turning the argument around, how does atheism impinge on the lives of Catholics?
    Thanks for sharing your views on this.
    How did religion blight your existence?


  • #2688
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,858 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    J C wrote: »
    Thanks for sharing your views on this.
    How did religion blight your existence?

    Will you not answer his question?


  • #2689
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,394 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    J C wrote: »
    Thanks for sharing your views on this.
    How did religion blight your existence?

    I had to learn stuff about Jesus at school when I didn't believe a word of it. It managed my education. It filled the society I lived in with shame. It interfered in the setting of laws that I had to live under. Many of its representatives mentally, physically and sexually abused children placed in their care and it shielded those perpetrators. And so on.

    How has atheism blighted your existence?


  • #2690
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Here is an example of what happens when a science teacher questions the scientific underpinnings of evolution ... and although this is in America, there would be just as swift a reaction in other countries as well.
    Belief in Evolution is the only state protected scientific belief in America ... strange ... but true.

    ... and that is why the secularists always call for the separation of church and state ... and not the separation of belief and state.
    ... they actually want the state to continue to protect secularist beliefs, whilst actively suppressing alternative beliefs ... and when it comes to one of the prime secularist beliefs (spontaneous evolution) they have succeeded in their objective to have the state protect their belief in evolution from any questioning ... whilst suppressing all reference to any alternative beliefs.



  • #2691
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,394 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    J C wrote: »
    Here is an example of what happens when a science teacher questions the scientific underpinnings of evolution ... and although this is in America, there would be just as swift a reaction in other countries as well.
    Belief in Evolution is the only state protected scientific belief in America ... strange ... but true.

    ... and that is why the secularists always call for the separation of church and state ... and not the separation of belief and state.
    ... they actually want the state to continue to protect secularist beliefs, whilst actively suppressing alternative beliefs ... and when it comes to one of the prime secularist beliefs (spontaneous evolution) they have succeeded in their objective to have the state protect their belief in evolution from any questioning ... whilst suppressing all reference to any alternative beliefs.


    52 minutes. TLDW


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  • #2692
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,908 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    52 minutes. TLDW

    Hmm, random creationist videos with minimal comment, is that where we're at? Here's one...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSXs9ZGeNLI


  • #2693
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    I had to learn stuff about Jesus at school when I didn't believe a word of it. It managed my education. It filled the society I lived in with shame. It interfered in the setting of laws that I had to live under. Many of its representatives mentally, physically and sexually abused children placed in their care and it shielded those perpetrators. And so on.

    How has atheism blighted your existence?
    It hasn't had any effect on me personally ... yet ... but the strong anti-religious views being expressed by some Atheists, do seem to be gaining currency within society ... and if they succeed further then my faith may be discriminated against or even suppressed by the state.
    There is precedent for this ... because when I was living happily here in the West, in the 50s and 60s ... with my beliefs respected and my right to hold them guaranteed by the state ... my fellow Christians where being worked to death in the gulags of Atheistic Soviet Russia ... or were confined to insane assylums on the pretext that because they believed in God they were 'insane' ... or needed 're-education' ... which was a euphemism for the adminstration of drugs ... and working them to death.
    I sincerely hope that we will never experience what happened in Atheistic Russia again ... but the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
    Just like you seem to be wary of the RCC, because of what has happened in the past ... I'm just as wary of Secularism/Atheism ... for the very same reason.

    The evolution controversy in America, where scientists or teachers who questions its orthodoxy, are punished and/or litigated against is ominous for the freedom of religion and belief guaranteed by the US Constitution. This doesn't give me much confidence that the God-less 'secular eutopia' ... currently being constructued throughout the World will be a place that will respect me and my beliefs.
    Of course I could be wrong ... and I hope that I am ... but there is nobody giving me any assurance on this ... the reverse is actually the case.


  • #2694
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    smacl wrote: »
    Hmm, random creationist videos with minimal comment, is that where we're at?
    There is some very significant principles and issues enunciated in these videos.
    ... and they make for thought-provoking viewing, to say the least.


  • #2695
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,394 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    J C wrote: »
    It hasn't had any effect on me personally ... yet ... but the strong anti-religious views being expressed by Atheists do seem to be gaining currency within society ... and if they succeed further then my faith may be discriminated against or even suppressed by the state.
    There is precedent for this ... because when I was living happily here in the West, in the 50s and 60s ... with my beliefs respected and my right to hold them guaranteed by the state ... my fellow Christians where being worked to death in the gulags of Atheistic Soviet Russia ... or were confined to insane assylums on the pretext that because they believed in God they were 'insane' ... or needed 're-education' ... which was a euphemism for the adminstration of drugs ... and working them to death.
    I sincerely hope that we will never experience what happened in Atheistic Russia again ... but the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
    Just like you seem to be wary of the RCC, because of what has happened in the past ... I'm just as wary of Secularism/Atheism ... for the very same reason.

    The evolution controversy in America, where scientists or teachers who questions its orthodoxy, are punished and/or litigated against is ominous for the freedom of religion and belief guaranteed by the US Constitution.
    So my life has been blighted by religion whereas your life has not been blighted by atheism. QED.


  • #2696
    mickrock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭mickrock


    J C wrote: »
    The evolution controversy in America, where scientists or teachers who questions its orthodoxy, are punished and/or litigated against is ominous for the freedom of religion and belief guaranteed by the US Constitution.

    In the Meyer video above he quotes a Chinese scientist speaking in America:

    "In China we can question Darwinism but not the government. In America you can question the government but not Darwinism."


  • #2697
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    Turning the argument around, how does atheism impinge on the lives of Catholics?
    It is certainly starting to ... with secular demands for Roman Catholics to hand over their schools and hospitals ... and in this regard, the said secularists are calling on the state to assist them in geting this done.
    ... what we're seeing is the separation of church and state ... and the coming together of secularists and the state.


  • #2698
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    So my life has been blighted by religion whereas your life has not been blighted by atheism. QED.
    Your life appears to have been 'blighted' by the mention of Jesus Christ at the school you attended ... my life hasn't been blighted by anybody ... but my fellow Christians have been killed in atheistic Russia, because they wouldn't deny their faith.


  • #2699
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,394 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    J C wrote: »
    It is certainly starting to ... with secular demands for Roman Catholics to hand over their schools and hospitals ... and in this regard, the said secularists are calling on the state to assist them in geting this done.
    ... what we're seeing is the separation of church and state ... and the coming together of secularists and the state.

    Separation of church and state is long overdue. In that context, secularisation is right and proper wouldn't you agree?


  • #2700
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    mickrock wrote: »
    In the Meyer video above he quotes a Chinese scientist speaking in America:

    "In China we can question Darwinism but not the government. In America you can question the government but not Darwinism."
    Quite true ... and it shows how, bizzzarely, Darwinism has become a 'state sanctioned religion' in America.


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  • #2701
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,394 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    J C wrote: »
    Your life appears to have been 'blighted' by the mention of Jesus Christ at the school you attended ... my life hasn't been blighted by anybody ... but my fellow Christians have been killed in atheistic Russia, because they wouldn't deny their faith.

    My life was much more blighted by religion than just the mention of Jesus as I wrote in my post. But you know that. Self-admittedly your life has not been blighted by atheism. So our lived experience proves that religion blights lives while atheism doesn't.


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