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Need career advice please
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10-07-2017 4:05pm#1Hello! I just want to thank anyone who replies in advance
I recently completed an MSc in Data Science and not sure where to go from here.
There are job postings for this field but they all require years and years of experience. I'm 22, as you can imagine I don't meet these requirements...
I'm just wondering where do I go from here?
I'm okay with doing any job but I'm also worried about losing my skills, another thing is that senior jobs in Data Science ask for experience in Data Science not just work experience.
I know Github is a popular source of experience but I don't know how this would tie in with my field to be honest.0
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Hello! I just want to thank anyone who replies in advance
I recently completed an MSc in Data Science and not sure where to go from here.
There are job postings for this field but they all require years and years of experience. I'm 22, as you can imagine I don't meet these requirements...
I'm just wondering where do I go from here?
I'm okay with doing any job but I'm also worried about losing my skills, another thing is that senior jobs in Data Science ask for experience in Data Science not just work experience.
I know Github is a popular source of experience but I don't know how this would tie in with my field to be honest.
If you're a graduate with no experience then I wouldn't be targeting senior data science jobs in the first place. Have you been in touch with a recruiter? They are generally a scourge, but believe it or not they can find some open positions from time to time. I can imagine there are graduate positions available in the field to get started,
Ned should be along shortly with some good advice0 -
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Buford T Justice wrote: »If you're a graduate with no experience then I wouldn't be targeting senior data science jobs in the first place. Have you been in touch with a recruiter? They are generally a scourge, but believe it or not they can find some open positions from time to time. I can imagine there are graduate positions available in the field to get started,
Ned should be along shortly with some good advice
I'm not applying to them I meant that the demand for Data Sci in Ireland seems to be for senior positions not entry level. I take a look at the requirements for those positions sometimes but only so I can see what they require to use as a sort of a guide for the future! Oh yeah he does seem to give good advice hopefully he'll know somethingDoes your course have no industry contacts? Ask your lecturers for some tips. A lot of people in this field have PhDs, have you considered further study?
Our lecturers did send us positions and recommendations but they were all for advanced jobs that I won't even try because I know I wouldn't get it. I have considered it but I just don't feel a Phd is for me
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Hmm that sounds pretty useless of them... Go back to them and ask them about more junior roles.
I did ask the coordinators why the roles they sent had such high experience requirements, they said they have trouble filling those in because there's a shortage in the country so the degree should be enough. I replied back saying it isn't as the degree would not provide enough background for those roles, maybe if it was 1 or 2 years of experience but these were 3+ years of experience roles... I didn't get a reply to that though
I also contacted gradsecure as they specialise in grad jobs, but didn't get a reply from them either!0 -
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IMO you should apply to the roles they gave you. What have you got to lose by doing so?Plenty of jobs are advertised with a wish list of experience and qualifications but realistically they are never going to get a person that means every criteria, especially if the wages on offer doesn't match the criteria they are asking for.
If there is no lower criteria jobs being advertised, they apply for the jobs that are advertised.
If I meet over half of the requirements I will apply, but I always get rejected because I don't meet the experience. The problem with these positions is that they are generally senior level and often require many years of experience in different fields alongside Data Science. There is no point in wasting their time applying to them, a 22 year old recent graduate is far from what they are looking for.That's the problem with IT is hard to get on the bottom of the ladder.
I wouldn't mind working in IT support but they are generally looking for Comp Sci graduates, Technical writing looks interesting to me and is a popular entry level route in the States, unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a market here outside of pharmaceuticals to be honest I seriously regret doing I.T. 0 -
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Already applied for these! Thanks 0 -
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Anywhere in northern europe really, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium etc. You won't be crucified by tax because you will be on graduate salary. Once you are on higher salary time to GTFO tho To think people here think they get taxed a lot...
What's a 2H2? Your grade? Noone cares really, don't even need to put on cv.0 -
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Anywhere in northern europe really, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium etc. You won't be crucified by tax because you will be on graduate salary. Once you are on higher salary time to GTFO tho To think people here think they get taxed a lot...
What's a 2H2? Your grade? Noone cares really, don't even need to put on cv.
Thanks! I would actually love to live in any of these countries and wouldn't mind learning the language either as that's another passion of mine. Might also be useful once back in Ireland..
Do you recommend any place to look for jobs in those countries? Or do they have indeed and so on as well?
Time to take it out then
When I graduated (not IT) I regret not exploring opportunities outside of Ireland more. I did a few interviews in the UK. But then compromised to stay in Dublin. Don't limit yourself to Ireland. There NI and the UK and Europe. I also got into IT by transferring into it from somewhere else in a company. I originally did testing while waiting for my preferred non IT role to come up. The role never came up, but I moved laterally into IT, indirectly. I would say thats not ideal, but think outside the box.
IT shortage reported often have another agenda, filling college spaces, or driving down the cost of IT by outsourcing, or importing labor. My primary degree (non IT) in hindsight has minuscule opportunities in Ireland. If I was doing it again I would have gone to the UK for College, and thus work.
Thank you for your insight, I was a bit worried that my only options were to immigrate to the US or Australia which I don't have the funds to. But hearing that there are opportunities here in Europe is such a relief! Going in laterally is also something I considered as my undergrad is non IT too, but testing nowadays from what I see requires a degree and the only other way I could think of was call centers.. I'm thinking of looking into research positions as well 0 -
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Most would recommend Northern Europe where IT roles are more plentiful, but I actually think that a fallacy because you're willing to move anywhere and you can leave if needed from anywhere, so better to take advantage of local market stickiness. i.e. go where the market for IT workers is illiquid.
Me I relocated to Madrid straight after graduation. At the time, not a lot of hard developer (i.e. non-web, non-admin) roles around, but equally not many competent developers either. So those employers in need were in very dire need indeed, an actual real rather than faked skills shortage.
I started off on €18k, within three months I was on €30k. That might not sound like much, but at the time the average industrial wage in Spain was €8k, so I was as rich as Croesus relatively speaking, eating at the same restaurants as the King and Queen, which were truly superbly fine food and wine.
Also, there are significant non-work benefits to heading to the poorer south. Constant sunshine, dancing till 7am, many beautiful women wearing very little ... and at that time a thirty hour work week and an extremely relaxed work environment with a bottle of wine each at lunch each day. Now it isn't like that any more in Spain, but may well still be in say Romania or Croatia or other newer parts of the EU. I would not rule any of them out as a possibility.
My average grade in my Software Engineering degree was 32%. Pass by compensation, the lowest possible grade, and actually quite hard to get.
It hurt me badly during the 2001 collapse, but before that it didn't matter. Right now we're also in an inflating bubble, so chances are especially if you're relocating to Continental Europe where our degree classification system makes no sense to them anyway, it won't matter.
Niall
Well whenever an employer asks me what my salary expectations are I say 22k as I'm a graduate with little experience... even if I ended up somewhere on a lower salary chances are the cost of living would be cheaper also. Even 22k in Dublin would be difficult to live with but in Spain and Portugal not so much. As long as its a survivable salary I'm good!
Hahaha I'm not too concerned about the women as I'm not a lesbian, but wouldn't mind some sunny weather
Thank you so much for your input! I'm glad to hear you have managed even with low grades, and quite honestly your advice is really helpful. Personally I don't think they reflect your intelligence or capabilities, but employers here would beg to differ!0 -
Errr why did you think US/Oz are your only options? You aren't actually allowed to work there (without a visa). Conversely you can work anywhere in the EU with zero hassle.
Yeah all the usual jobsites also list jobs on the continent, just get googling. Doesn't matter if you don't have the language - most techies speak english, and you will pick up the local lingo real fast. Total immersion is so much better for learning language than the poxy leaving cert.
All of my friends who have immigrated went there so I thought there were no jobs in the field in Europe, needless to say, I'm glad I asked for advice instead of listening to them
To google I go then! Thank you!
Also I totally agree with you on the languages bit0 -
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OleRodrigo wrote: »I would look at doing some work on Kaggle and also a vendor certification in Oracle or MS Database/ BI.
Vendor certs can bridge the gap of a lack of experience. I wouldn't underestimate how valuable being an Excel ninja is with Data Analysis roles. Its not sexy but plenty of Analyst roles use Intermediate/ Advanced Excel . Tableau offer free training also, to a point. Also consider a subscription to Pluralsight or 5miles for Excel (http://www.5miles.nl/)
As far as job hunting goes, I would avoid focusing on recruitment agencies and start researching key people in organizations through LinkedIn. There are generally more jobs available than are advertised through recruitment agencies and most managers regard them as a necessary evil. They will generally prefer to hire someone through traditional means but not if it takes up too much of their time. If you contact them directly, make sure you can back up your claims for suitability though.
If you have shown enough initiative to keep your skills fresh, relevant to a role and have actively pursued something rather than waited for someone to contact you, it will make you stand out from the competition. The majority of candidates will register with an agency and assume that's enough to get a job. I know all of that is a tall order but it will work, if you can effectively communicate that to a hiring manager.
I did Data Science a few years ago ( although just a HDip ) and was disappointed with how irrelevant it was to what employers were looking for ( in a data science role at least ). Its good for ancillary roles however, such as Database Admin, BI and Business Analysis so I would be open to some of those, at least to start off with. Once you have a few years behind you, you can go for the roles that really interest you.
Good luck!
I use kaggle to download data to work on my own projects but I guess you mean actually do the competitions?
I actually want to do the Oracle Java and Database certs as well as the MS BI, but I'll need a job first to pay for these, this is absolutely a priority for the future for me though as they do seem to be quite important.
I was thinking also of getting MS Excel certified but heard these are bogus?
I did hear cold calling is pretty successful with the right approach, although I haven't tried it yet myself. With that said, I am aware of course that simply sitting back is not an option - the market is too competitive for that really. I don't mind having to take the long approach, you do what you gotta do!
I agree, I was initially going to do a HDip and didn't find any of them to be sufficient. This is somewhat understandable i guess as universities only seem to have taken an interest in the field recently... Yup! I've applied for some junior BI/Business Analyst roles
Thank you for your advice!0 -
I use kaggle to download data to work on my own projects but I guess you mean actually do the competitions?
I actually want to do the Oracle Java and Database certs as well as the MS BI, but I'll need a job first to pay for these, this is absolutely a priority for the future for me though as they do seem to be quite important.
I was thinking also of getting MS Excel certified but heard these are bogus?
I did hear cold calling is pretty successful with the right approach, although I haven't tried it yet myself. With that said, I am aware of course that simply sitting back is not an option - the market is too competitive for that really. I don't mind having to take the long approach, you do what you gotta do!
I agree, I was initially going to do a HDip and didn't find any of them to be sufficient. This is somewhat understandable i guess as universities only seem to have taken an interest in the field recently... Yup! I've applied for some junior BI/Business Analyst roles
Thank you for your advice!
If you've worked on the Kaggle data sets I guess that would be fine. It seems you've done most of the heavy lifting, you just need to tweak a few things to get your foot in the door.
I agree about the Excel certs - ECDL, Office etc. However, I did a contract a few years ago for a global company with their EMEA base in Ireland. They were basically a business service section for that region and most of them were Business Analysts, about 120 in total. All of them used excel with the data analysis plugin as their 'go to' productivity tool. There were several interns and graduates given tasks to do - mostly data cleaning from SQL exports - , all were done in excel.
If you can handle some SQL queries and know your way around Excel and its data extensions, you're all set. R, python , SPSS, Tableau etc etc...leave it for another day ( if you ever see them again )0 -
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Well whenever an employer asks me what my salary expectations are I say 22k as I'm a graduate with little experience... even if I ended up somewhere on a lower salary chances are the cost of living would be cheaper also. Even 22k in Dublin would be difficult to live with but in Spain and Portugal not so much. As long as its a survivable salary I'm good!
Do bear in mind that Continental Europe salaries are lower than here. As a fresh graduate 15k I'd have said was reasonable for Western Europe, 8k for Eastern Europe. Unlike over here, they tend to award big pay increases if they want to retain you after a few months, so it's not self sabotage to start underpaid like it is over here. They also look after their employees, invest in them. Employees are not disposable assets to be strip mined and discarded like here.Hahaha I'm not too concerned about the women as I'm not a lesbian, but wouldn't mind some sunny weather
I'm told that the fellas look pretty good too!
But more seriously, as a female you should prepare yourself for some ... let's call it "traditional" ... attitudes towards female engineers of the kind that would be seriously not okay in Ireland or the UK. It's very commonplace in Continental Europe. I mean, I was shocked, and I'm a man, but it's absolutely ubiquitous and considered normal, and the further east and south you go, the more those attitudes will be on open display.
Now, that doesn't mean female engineers can't do well by any means, it's just you need to act like a female continental european engineer, and it's a tough thing to achieve as an Anglo-Saxon woman because it's not at all how women here behave, it wouldn't be considered appropriate here. One of my exs who is Spanish is now fairly senior and she's a programmer, she's done very well. But let's just say she's pretty "full on" as a personality. But then you have to be over there in software, otherwise you're not taken seriously as a woman engineer.Thank you so much for your input! I'm glad to hear you have managed even with low grades, and quite honestly your advice is really helpful. Personally I don't think they reflect your intelligence or capabilities, but employers here would beg to differ!
I think employers don't think that either. But it's a numbers game, it's about effort expended on recruitment for the benefit gained. Most CV submissions see about six seconds spent on assessing if they're suitable. If you haven't told the reader a reason to keep reading in the first line, you're finished.
Even I with a CV stretching over thirty pages and twenty years in the field still struggle to get past recruiters. I've been applying to go onsite in the UK to shore up this year's income, not enough remote working income has landed this tax year. My major stumbling block are the recruiters, I'm out of practice at feeding them boxes to tick. You must remember they're on a quota system, unless you spoon feed them they'll bin your application as costing too much effort relative to other applications. I'll get there eventually.
(Or, please god, some 6 month C++ contracts turn up in Ireland soon. The market is dead as a doornail right now
)
Niall0
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