All Ireland Senior Football Championships 2017 - Read Mod Note Post #1

TommyDe · 08-07-2017 09:29PM

Farmer_3650 wrote:

What I should have said was "do they deserve to get as far as they usually get". The answer is No in my opinion.

Farmer_3650 wrote:

So to answer your question they deserved to get there every other year. They even should have won in the final last year. Nothing to do with luck, bribery or a curse.

Serious contradiction in your opinion here?
No point in replying.

charlie14 · 08-07-2017 09:32PM

Sonny678 wrote: »

Ref made some bizarre decisions for both teams. Yes disallowed goal I don't know . Both Murphy was blatantly pushing Menton in the back for kickouts and two crucial scores came from these pushs in the back. Some questionable calls against Meath also.
Overall Meath showed they could go toe to toe with a Division 1 team and this augurs well for the future for one of the youngest teams in the country. Their is talent there. Brian Conlon in his debut game was brillant. Now the first year is out of the way. We can get down to business next year and the year after. It took O Neill and Walsh three years before Kildare and Galway made progress.

Get into Division 1. Which is not impossible. Since we have finished third 3 of the last 4 seasons in Division 2. Losing out to promotion on point difference scoring difference and head to head. And more importantly stay in Division 1. We have not been in Division 1 since 2001, 16 years ago. And it's the late 90s since Meath were in Division 1 year after year. That's the key for this Meath team. They showed tonight they could play in Division 1.

I think in the seasons 2019 2020 2021 this Meath team will a make a big impact in the championship ship. When these group of 22 and 23 year olds reach their peak. We are out. But this is just the beginning not the end for this Meath team. Once we keep Andy McEntee in charge. I will write a more detailed analysis later.

McEntee is taking ye in the right direction, but this year Meath really need to get out of Div 2 and then stay up in Div 1 to really have a chance of putting it up to Dublin in Leinster.
Takes a while to bed in young lads, Donegal have the same problem, but in Donegal`s case a manager that has only a plan A, (and a sidekick who is a moron) that hasn`t worked now in three years isn`t helping their cause,

Hammer Archer · 08-07-2017 09:36PM

Spot on Sonny.
The disallowed goal (and no one can say that it was a correct decision or not until seeing the replay) came directly from a blatant push on Menton from a kick out. The referee gave plenty of soft frees to Donegal, it's just that Murphy missed most of the frees while Lenehan was flawless.

The thing that separated the two sides, in my opinion, was individual mistakes. 2 Donegal points in the first half came from us giving easy balls away. In the second half we were two up and O'Rourke (again) had two shocking kickouts to gift Donegal two points. Even at the end we had a gilt edged chance to level the game but got caught in two minds and ended up giving away possession.

Overall, a cracking game of football and an encouraging performance from us. Had we won it, Donegal could have had no complaints. We showed a huge amount of fight and passion but agonizingly came up short. Stark contrast to the last two games. No excuses not to make it to division 1 next year.

Farmer_3650 · 08-07-2017 09:48PM

TommyDe wrote: »

Serious contradiction in your opinion here?
No point in replying.

I'm sorry about that. I didn't make it clear what I meant to say.

Thanks for pointing that out.

"do they deserve to get as far as they usually get. The answer is No in my opinion." - Here I meant that this year they don't deserve to get as far as they deserved to get in other years.

klairondavis · 08-07-2017 09:50PM

Sonny678 wrote: »

It took O Neill and Walsh three years before Kildare and Galway made progress. Both Kildare and Galway were poor overall in their first and second season under their above managements.

O'Neill is only in his second season with Kildare.

Farmer_3650 · 08-07-2017 09:54PM

klairondavis wrote: »

O'Neill is only in his second season with Kildare.

I think he meant in Kildare's first season and Galway's second season

dxhound2005 · 08-07-2017 10:03PM

I thought we were to get to the last 12 at some stage? I make it 14 teams left which still be the same after the remaining provincial finals. Five from Ulster and three from each of the other provinces.

thee glitz · 08-07-2017 10:05PM

Hammer Archer wrote: »

2 Donegal points in the first half came from us giving easy balls away. In the second half we were two up and O'Rourke (again) had two shocking kickouts to gift Donegal two points.

O'Rourke tapped the ball out and it was sent straight back over his head. Overall, he did well - posession was maintained from almost all kick-outs.

The Talking Bread · 08-07-2017 10:23PM

Sonny678 wrote: »

. It took O Neill and Walsh three years before Kildare and Galway made progress. Both Kildare and Galway were poor overall in their first and second season under their above managements.

.

klairondavis wrote: »

O'Neill is only in his second season with Kildare.

The info laden Sonny is finally losing it! Sure how can we take him seriously anymore!!

klairondavis · 08-07-2017 10:33PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I thought we were to get to the last 12 at some stage? I make it 14 teams left which still be the same after the remaining provincial finals. Five from Ulster and three from each of the other provinces.

The A side are a week ahead of the B side. Round 3A fixtures took place today. 3B will take place next week. That will leave 12 teams by next Sunday.

Sonny678 · 08-07-2017 10:48PM

I could be wrong. But was he not selector under Jason Ryan. That would mean he has been involved with these players 3 years ( 1 year selector 2 Manager). And he would be more a coach then a selector so O Neill would three years involved and coaching these Kildare players. And last year in his first year as manager Kildare were dreadful. No comparison with the very good outfit we have seen this year.

McEntee in a couple of months has improved Meath. We are still out in July and no promotion again. But we are going in the right direction. This season was always clearing out th8r bad petrol out of the system. The younger players will be a year older next year. And Andy will be in his second season. Forde and Rooney will be back. Their is also potentially strong under 17 and under 20 teams on the way if we pick the right management. Fitness has improved under McEntee. And there is more fight in this Meath team then I have seen in a while . The kildare defeat was bad loss. But it's what is expected with any new young team..

You are always hugely disappointed when your county is knocked out. But for me tonight is the start . And this is a young team in the early stages of development. A coming team. Yes I would describe them as that. I saw elements in the performance tonight and throughout the league that I have not seen since Boylan was in charge.

Onwards and upwards for Meath football. We are not as bad as people want us to be. We are a young team with plenty of talent with a excellent management and great tradition. In any sport they are all positives.

The Talking Bread · 08-07-2017 11:03PM

He was Kerry selector and strength and conditioning coach up until 2015, had nothing to do with the current Kildare set up/era. His reign started in the 2016 League and you can't hold him accountable for 3 years, even if he had any role for Kildare (which I am 99% sure he didn't ) in the past.

Kildare actually played well in the qualifier against a very good Mayo performance last year. In the end goals win games and it was effectively all but killed off once they got those 2 first half goals but Kildare went out and won the second half which was commendable. So that was evidence that O' Neill was getting something out of them. That was only 7/8 months into his campaign

dxhound2005 · 08-07-2017 11:05PM

Sonny678 wrote: »

I

McEntee in a couple of months has improved Meath. We are still out in July and no promotion again. But we are going in the right direction.

With the way things are in Leinster, your only hope of progess is to get to Division One. How many years now since Meath were in Division One?

TommyDe · 08-07-2017 11:09PM

Farmer_3650 wrote:

"do they deserve to get as far as they usually get. The answer is No in my opinion." - Here I meant that this year they don't deserve to get as far as they deserved to get in other years.

Farmer_3650 wrote:

I'm sorry about that. I didn't make it clear what I meant to say. Thanks for pointing that out.

Fair enough. I get what you're saying now.
I agree it's not been a good year performance wise from the start of the league onwards. Goodness knows I've lost so much hair from pulling it out of my head.

I don't think Rochford is one for swashbuckling football. He seems to be more of a tactical guy grinding out wins rather than setting the world alight.
I like him as I think he is the first really in depth tactical manager we've had and he does seem to know what he's doing.
Does he have the players to play all his different systems at once? Well we need an accurate long range point kicker (from play) and a tough as nails centre back. Other than that we survive well I feel.

By the way there's a great scene in the film 'the good, the bad and ugly' where the protagonist, as he's about to be shot says 'I don't deserve this'.
Clint Eastwood 's character says 'deserves got nothing got to do with it'. Then pulls the trigger.

Hammer Archer · 08-07-2017 11:21PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

With the way things are in Leinster, your only hope of progess is to get to Division One. How many years now since Meath were in Division One?

Not since 2006 when the divisions were 1A/B & 2A/B. Apart from our one year in division 3, we've spent every year in division 2. Though three of the last four years, we've finished third.

Bishopsback · 08-07-2017 11:34PM

TommyDe wrote: »

Fair enough. I get what you're saying now.
I agree it's not been a good year performance wise from the start of the league onwards. Goodness knows I've lost so much hair from pulling it out of my head.

I don't think Rochford is one for swashbuckling football. He seems to be more of a tactical guy grinding out wins rather than setting the world alight.
I like him as I think he is the first really in depth tactical manager we've had and he does seem to know what he's doing.
Does he have the players to play all his different systems at once? Well we need an accurate long range point kicker (from play) and a tough as nails centre back. Other than that we survive well I feel.

By the way there's a great scene in the film 'the good, the bad and ugly' where the protagonist, as he's about to be shot says 'I don't deserve this'.
Clint Eastwood 's character says 'deserves got nothing got to do with it'. Then pulls the trigger.

Wrong film Tommy. That's "Unforgiven".

Sonny678 · 08-07-2017 11:34PM

You are always hugely disappointed when your county is knocked out. But for me tonight is the start . And this is a young team in the early stages of development. A coming team. Yes I would describe them as that. I saw elements in the performance tonight and throughout the league that I have not seen since Boylan was in charge.

Onwards and upwards for Meath football. We are not as bad as people want us to be. We are a young team with plenty of talent with a excellent management and great tradition. In any sport they are all positives.

dxhound2005 · 08-07-2017 11:38PM

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Not since 2006 when the divisions were 1A/B & 2A/B. Apart from our one year in division 3, we've spent every year in division 2. Though three of the last four years, we've finished third.

In the meantime Laois, Kildare and Westmeath have dined at the top table on occasion. But you did win your last Leinster from Division Two.

The Talking Bread · 08-07-2017 11:39PM

Christ Sonny, you should be on suicide watch after reading that post !!! ha!

keane2097 · 08-07-2017 11:41PM

Sonny678 wrote: »

The club scene is great. But it's all about the county really. You tell yourself the club is everything but deep down you know it's always been the county and always will be the county that comes first.

Banned

The Talking Bread · 08-07-2017 11:45PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

In the meantime Laois, Kildare and Westmeath have dined at the top table on occasion. But you did win your last Leinster from Division Two.

Not their proudest Leinster final win, I anticipate!

Bishopsback · 08-07-2017 11:48PM

My mind goes back a couple of years, when Westmeath beat Meath in the semi in Leinster I think. This was great.
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.joe.ie/amp/sport/video-this-irish-dads-reaction-to-westmeath-result-is-just-priceless-501551

Stoner · 08-07-2017 11:49PM

The Talking Bread wrote:

Not their proudest Leinster final win, I anticipate!

I anticipate that Kildare would take it too though!!!

windy shepard henderson · 09-07-2017 12:09AM

Stoner wrote: »

I anticipate that Kildare would take it too though!!!

every county would , but ... and i am not a hipster ......karma catches up with you , my own county were screwed out of an all ireland back in 98 :mad: because of a referee with a fast watch :pac:

the beneficiaries of that debacle offaly have since sank to the bottom of the hurling ocean and settled in Atlantis forever more , meath looked like there were on to something in 2010 and have vanished in the same direction in the football world

shame to lose two colorful counties but let that be a lesson to the rest of ye

klairondavis · 09-07-2017 12:32AM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

He was Kerry selector and strength and conditioning coach up until 2015, had nothing to do with the current Kildare set up/era. His reign started in the 2016 League and you can't hold him accountable for 3 years, even if he had any role for Kildare (which I am 99% sure he didn't ) in the past.

He was a coach with the minor team in 2010 under Bryan Murphy. That was his only previous involvement with a Kildare management team prior to 2016.

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Kildare actually played well in the qualifier against a very good Mayo performance last year. In the end goals win games and it was effectively all but killed off once they got those 2 first half goals but Kildare went out and won the second half which was commendable. So that was evidence that O' Neill was getting something out of them. That was only 7/8 months into his campaign

Very different team this year. Eoin Doyle had a bad injury for the duration of the league last year. He came back for the championship but never looked fit. Kevin Feely dislocated his shoulder against Wexford. Returned for the Mayo match but wasn't right and was played out of position at full forward for most of the game. Paul Cribbin was injured against Wexford and didn't play again. Keith Cribbin was recovering from a cruciate injury and his only appearance was off the bench against Mayo. Daniel Flynn was on fire early on in the league but tore his hamstring against Tipperary and didn't play again. Mick O'Grady and David Slattery weren't on the panel. Paddy Brophy was in Australia. That's nearly half the team that started the last day who weren't available last year.

Lots of the panel from last year have either moved on or are unavailable this year: Eoghan O'Flaherty, Morgan O'Flaherty, Smith, Murnaghan, Tyrrell, McGrillen, Fitzpatrick, Daryl Flynn, Houlihan, Corley, O'Neill, Powderly, Eanna O'Connor, Rob Kelly. All of those played league and/or championship last year. The panel has seen a significant transition in a short space of time.

Sonny678 · 09-07-2017 01:04AM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

He was Kerry selector and strength and conditioning coach up until 2015, had nothing to do with the current Kildare set up/era. His reign started in the 2016 League and you can't hold him accountable for 3 years, even if he had any role for Kildare (which I am 99% sure he didn't ) in the past.

Kildare actually played well in the qualifier against a very good Mayo performance last year. In the end goals win games and it was effectively all but killed off once they got those 2 first half goals but Kildare went out and won the second half which was commendable. So that was evidence that O' Neill was getting something out of them. That was only 7/8 months into his campaign

Sorry I was wrong. I just thought he was involved in Ryans last year as manager. Sorry about that. Kildare played well in the qualifier last year. So did Meath today play really well today. But before the Mayo game and there was allot of disquiet in Kildare. They were promoted from divsion 3 , but they shouldnt have been in Divsion 3. They were dreadful in the league final v Clare in Croker last year. And their performance v Westmeath was one the worst Kidlare performances I ever seen in Croke Park.

When the season ended last year , I spoke to many kildare fans thoughout the Autumn and winter and they were very unimpressed with O Neill in his first year. Its only in his second season that real progess was made . Very little last year. Meath produced better performances v Donegal Galway Louth Cork CLare (12 point win) Fermanagh (13 point win) and Derry (15 point win), these collectively were better then the performances kidlare delivered last year. Theres not to much in it though.

The fact is kildare are ahead of Meath this year. Both young teams. But they are a year ahead in terms of development. It will be very interesting to see who of both teams will be more sucessful in the next couple of years. You would have to say kildare look more likely to be more sucessful. With underage talent but Meath are not as bad as the two kildare games would make them out to be. Remeber Meath defeated Galway a team kildare could not beat twice this year.

And I do think Meath have a better manager. This is O Neills first managerial job. McEntee before he took the Meath job had one of the best CV of a manger not in inter county. A better CV then James Horan or Jimmy McGuinness before they took senior jobs .And McEntees was similar to Mickey Harte Jack O Connor and Pete McGrath in that he was sucessful at two different grades. Im not saying McEntee is as good as the above. And there are examples of managers of having a good CV and not been sucessful at senior level eg Mullholland Galway. But his CV is excellent. And I personally have seen things /areas of improvemnt that I have not seen under the previous 5 Meath managers, things I havent seen since Boylan.

The gap isnt as big between Meath and Kildre as people think. the main difference could be kildare are a year ahead in terms development then Meath. Their performance v Dublin and other games in Croker and in next years league will tell us more about Kidlare. Hopefully they put it up to Dublin. And even win. Leinster footoball needs strong Meaths kildares Offalys etc.

Sonny678 · 09-07-2017 01:25AM

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Not since 2006 when the divisions were 1A/B & 2A/B. Apart from our one year in division 3, we've spent every year in division 2. Though three of the last four years, we've finished third.

Meath have not been in a proper division 1 since 2001. 2006 was a 16 team division 1. The last time Meath were in a proper division 1, 8 team division 1 was 16 years ago. Meath have not played in an All Ireland final in 16 years. One of the reasons why is not playing in division 1 . Meath were relegated twice to division 3 in the last 16 years. So Meath have really been in division 2 for 14 of the last 16 years. Extraordinary but true.

It is one of the main reasons why we have only won 1 leinster in that timescale. Get into division 1 stay there Meath should make a big impact. It wouldnt take a genius of a manger to get a team that has finished 3rd 3 times in the last 4 years into division 1 . Staying there is the big problem.

The only thing is if we were promoted in 2018 . In 2019 there would be some old teams in division 1 eg Dublin . And Meath would be a third year under McEntee. And the average age of the panel would be 25 or 26. Players would be reaching their peak. In 2019 2020 2021 I can see Meath making a big impact in the championship. A leinster title will be won in these years and hopefully more.

PS Another stat that explain Meaths lack of success recently. Meath have only played in 1 under 21 leinster final in 16 years. Meath have not won an under 21 leinster title since 2001. They won 4 leinster under 21 titles in the 90s.

However there has been allot of work done at underage recently. It has not been fruitful yet but I could see sucess in the new minor under 17 and under 20 grades. In the last two year at minor there has been sign of gaps closing between Dublin. We hammered the Dubs at minor level last year. And this year were 9 points up playing champagne football. But in the second half another Coyle team collasped. Dublin were wiping the floor with Meath young teams for allot of this decade. At under 15 16 17 and 18 recently The gap has closed and Meath are now beating underage Dublin regularly. We need this to now translate to under 17 and under 20. We also need to beat Kildare more at underage level. They have wiped the floor with us in the last 10 years at underage level. However I think there is talent coming through and if we are not sucessful at under 17 and under 20 in the next few years I would disappointed. Truth is we had a strong minor this year , we should have done better.

The Talking Bread · 09-07-2017 01:38AM

I mean this in the nicest way, Sonny, but are you aware of this site? I just think your passion and knowledge, while fascinating and educated is wasted here sometimes. You put so much effort in and sometimes dont even get a discussion.

I just amn't sure you are aware of it?

Again, not trying to put you off here, hope you continue posting, don't misinterpret why I am giving you this link, I just feel with regards Meath, this may be a much better site

http://www.hoganstand.com/Meath/ForumPage.aspx

Sonny678 · 09-07-2017 01:40AM

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

every county would , but ... and i am not a hipster ......karma catches up with you , my own county were screwed out of an all ireland back in 98 :mad: because of a referee with a fast watch :pac:

the beneficiaries of that debacle offaly have since sank to the bottom of the hurling ocean and settled in Atlantis forever more , meath looked like there were on to something in 2010 and have vanished in the same direction in the football world

shame to lose two colorful counties but let that be a lesson to the rest of ye

2010 was not beginning but the end of that team. Meath team team of 2006-2010 fell apart broke disintegrated after 2010. Still some young players but the team peaked in 2010. Since that we had 2 poor mangers and meath have been in transition with 07-10 team retiring and a new Meath emerging under O Dowd and McEntee.

Meath are always stronger at the end of the decade eg All Ireland wins in 1949 1967 1987 1988 1996 1999. Meath teams decline at the start of the decade eg All Ireland final loses 1951 1952 1970 1990 1991 2001. And in the mid part of a decade Meath are always in a period of transition and suffer bad loses eg 1955 v Dublin 1985 v Laois 1995 V Dublin 2006 v Wexford 2014 v Dublin.

GAA counties can go in ten year cycles. Every couple of years another group of players come through .So Meath are always stronger at the end of a decade. So 2010 was the natural peak for that team and the following years would have been decline anyway. Look at how Donegal have success at the start of the decades only eg Ulster title 1972 1982 All Ireland title 1992 2012. Tippeary win most of their All Ireland at the start of the decade eg 1971 1991 2001 2010. A team is around for 5 or 6 years then disintegrates and a new group appear. Meath again have a new team that will grow stronger as this decade ends. Its not like soccer where you can go out and buy players. Players come in groups and cycles .

You compare Offaly to Meath. Offaly success in hurling and football in 70s 80s and 90s was extraordinary and one of the most remarkable success stories of the last 50 years. But since the late 90s they have fallen badly behind. Our team broke up in the early part of this decade. We then went into transition . We now are the beginning of a new team.

We finished 3rd 3 times in the last 4 years in div 2. Surely we are next to get promoted. We really put it up to divison 1 team today. To say Meath have sank to bottom is not factually correct. We are not division 4 or division 3 team. We are top division 2 who have come incredibly close to promotion and our next in line for promotion. With one of the youngest teams in the country. Their always being tendency to underrate and downplay Meath even when we were sucessful.

windy shepard henderson · 09-07-2017 01:48AM

ye will get promoted next year if ye keep going the way ye are going

but ye will have to hit the blocks running , somthing meath did not do this year , as for 2010 , ye should never got rid of the manager eamon o'brien , he did a fantastic job with ye , came very close to beating kerry in the semi final the year before

should have never lost his position , the county board should have done more to accommodate him , then they brought in bamty , a broke buisness man in need of some quick cash ,caused consternation in the county board and meath have not been the same since

mcentee is a great footballl man he will improve ye , but ye will need to start bringing players through from the underage panels to help the guy in future ,

All Ireland Senior Football Championships 2017 - Read Mod Note Post #1

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