Bike to Work scheme - the Megathread - Read post #1 before posting

jeffk · 03-05-2017 4:18pm

Not to hijack the thread, but

All the talk of BTW scheme, can you get a bike,then say get a job in few weeks/month and get money back on the scheme?

cython · 03-05-2017 4:23pm

jeffk wrote: »

Not to hijack the thread, but

All the talk of BTW scheme, can you get a bike,then say get a job in few weeks/month and get money back on the scheme?

No, employer must purchase the bike and give it over to you (in exchange for salary sacrifice generally). You can not be reimbursed for a purchase in the manner you describe.

magicbastarder · 03-05-2017 5:11pm

yep, you can't avail of the cycle to work scheme if you've no actual work to cycle to.

Rogue-Trooper · 03-05-2017 5:33pm

Rogue-Trooper wrote: »

Our company offer the BTW scheme and you pay it back over 3 months. This however is a stumbling block for many employees as it makes it quite a big outlay and more have said they would participate if it were spread over 6 or 12 months.

I'm going to approach our overlords to see if it's possible to do this, but it would be nice to have a sense of what other companies offer. So my question is, what are the repayment terms at your place of work?

Just an update on this. Our HR Dept just came back to me to say they have extended the repayment period to 6 months. Result!

Next thing to tackle is moving them away from the voucher system so that 10% of your spend isn't gone on the commission......

Hungrycol · 03-05-2017 5:35pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

yep, you can't avail of the cycle to work scheme if you've no actual work to cycle to.

Not in this posters case but technically taking your post of out context, you can:

Can home-based employees avail of the scheme?
Yes. If the bicycle is used for work related journeys, for example trips to the post office or to collect office supplies.

Hungrycol · 03-05-2017 5:37pm

Leaving employment. Is the net pay rule only in the UK?

This is what I found on the Revenue site FAQ:

What happens if I leave my employment or retire before the salary
sacrifice is completed?
Employees should settle the full outstanding balance before the date of ceasing
employment or retirement.

As is it a gross deduction I read this to mean the gross balance.

CramCycle · 03-05-2017 5:41pm

Rogue-Trooper wrote: »

Just an update on this. Our HR Dept just came back to me to say they have extended the repayment period to 6 months. Result!

Next thing to tackle is moving them away from the voucher system so that 10% of your spend isn't gone on the commission......

Having seen the voucher scheme crowd close up, they are good at convincing HR departments that they are saving them time and effort free of charge. Having then seen what they expect the HR department to do, this is incredibly untrue. Create a case of what they currently expect and what HR would actually have to do. If your big enough to have a HR, they more than likely have a salary section or outsourced salary section, which will do nearly all of the work.

Hungrycol wrote: »

Leaving employment. Is the net pay rule only in the UK?

This is what I found on the Revenue site FAQ:

What happens if I leave my employment or retire before the salary
sacrifice is completed?
Employees should settle the full outstanding balance before the date of ceasing
employment or retirement.

As is it a gross deduction I read this to mean the gross balance.

In Ireland your would settle it as a once off payment from gross in your last paycheque.

Unknown Soldier · 13-05-2017 6:05pm

Would the scheme be applicable to a bike that was traded into CycleSuperstore?
Technically it wouldn't be a new bike, but new to the purchaser?

Eamonnator · 13-05-2017 6:19pm

Unknown Soldier wrote: »

Would the scheme be applicable to a bike that was traded into CycleSuperstore?
Technically it wouldn't be a new bike, but new to the purchaser?

No

iwillhtfu · 13-05-2017 6:39pm

Eamonnator wrote: »

No

Why not?

Surely once css can provide an invoice for the bike then it's the same thing. No?

Possibly an issue with it being second hand does it have to be new?

yabadabado · 13-05-2017 6:43pm

Unknown Soldier wrote: »

Would the scheme be applicable to a bike that was traded into CycleSuperstore?
Technically it wouldn't be a new bike, but new to the purchaser?

No

It's not a new bike simple as that.

cython · 13-05-2017 6:44pm

iwillhtfu wrote: »

Why not?

Surely once css can provide an invoice for the bike then it's the same thing. No?

Possibly an issue with it being second hand does it have to be new?

Because the Taxes Consolidation Act which underpins the scheme says that the bike and any applicable equipment must be unused. Any attempt to conceal a second hand purchase via a creative receipt would be tax fraud.

iwillhtfu · 13-05-2017 6:52pm

cython wrote: »

Because the Taxes Consolidation Act which underpins the scheme says that the bike and any applicable equipment must be unused. Any attempt to conceal a second hand purchase via a creative receipt would be tax fraud.

I didn't insinuate anything about a creative receipt :rolleyes:

It has to be new would have sufficed.

dahat · 13-05-2017 7:33pm

Unknown Soldier wrote: »

Would the scheme be applicable to a bike that was traded into CycleSuperstore?
Technically it wouldn't be a new bike, but new to the purchaser?

CSS sold you a bike which is the bare bones of the scheme, a receipt of the purchase would suffice.
I have never been asked wether bike was new or second hand after using b2w x 3 times.

Beasty · 13-05-2017 7:38pm

dahat wrote: »

CSS sold you a bike which is the bare bones of the scheme, a receipt of the purchase would suffice.
I have never been asked wether bike was new or second hand after using b2w x 3 times.

What you have or have not been asked is irrelevant. It is your own responsibility to ensure you comply with the relevant tax legislation.

cython · 13-05-2017 7:41pm

iwillhtfu wrote: »

I didn't insinuate anything about a creative receipt :rolleyes:

It has to be new would have sufficed.

Sorry if it came across that I was suggesting that you were insinuating that (I wasn't), but several people have drawn the conclusion in the past that once there was an ok-looking invoice/receipt that second hand should be fine.

rubadub · 13-05-2017 8:41pm

iwillhtfu wrote: »

Possibly an issue with it being second hand does it have to be new?

this is the law
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2008/act/25/section/7/enacted/en/html

(5G) (a) Subject to paragraph (c) of this subsection, subsection (1) shall not apply to expense of up to ?1,000 incurred by the body corporate in, or in connection with, the provision for a director or employee of a bicycle or bicycle safety equipment, where?

(i) the bicycle and bicycle safety equipment provided is unused and not second-hand,

There is no definition I can see for unused or secondhand. My bike was technically used they told me several of the staff had cycled it around the carpark! I wonder if it means you cannot get shop soiled stuff.

DDC1990 · 19-05-2017 7:58am

I've applied to buy a Cayon Endurace 6.0 through the CTW scheme but I'm still a little confused in regards of getting my employers (The Department of Education) to pay for it.

I selected the correct payment system on Canyon and have all their details. I have an application form from the DOE to fill in and send off to them. However do I need to put down the full amount (€1149) on that applocation form or just €1000 and arrange to pay Canyon the rest myself. I was also reading the FAQ's and they mention VAT. Do I include VAT in the amount or not.

A link to the Application form is here:

http://www.education.ie/en/Education-Staff/Services/Payroll-Financial/Cycle-to-Work/Cycle-to-Work-Scheme.html

Apologies if these are really stupid questions. I just know if I have anything out of place it'll take months for it to be fixed with the Dept as they are coming into their busiest time now.

cython · 19-05-2017 8:39am

DDC1990 wrote: »

I've applied to buy a Cayon Endurace 6.0 through the CTW scheme but I'm still a little confused in regards of getting my employers (The Department of Education) to pay for it.

I selected the correct payment system on Canyon and have all their details. I have an application form from the DOE to fill in and send off to them. However do I need to put down the full amount (€1149) on that applocation form or just €1000 and arrange to pay Canyon the rest myself. I was also reading the FAQ's and they mention VAT. Do I include VAT in the amount or not.

A link to the Application form is here:

http://www.education.ie/en/Education-Staff/Services/Payroll-Financial/Cycle-to-Work/Cycle-to-Work-Scheme.html

Apologies if these are really stupid questions. I just know if I have anything out of place it'll take months for it to be fixed with the Dept as they are coming into their busiest time now.

Page 3 of the application form on the page you linked to contains the following text (emphasis is mine):

I hereby authorise a salary sacrifice of €_____________ (Please enter the total amount as
stated on the invoice, maximum €1,000) of my annual basic salary in lieu of the provision of
new bicycle/cycle safety equipment by the Department of Education and Skills

so I would take from that that you put the €1k value on the form for sacrifice (though there is a field for value of bike where I'd put the full whack to align with invoice), and settle the balance with Canyon yourself. What the exact mechanics of that are, I don't know, but would hope someone in DoE HR, or even just in Canyon can advise you on that.

As for VAT, it should be included in the pricing, and Canyon levy the 23% Irish VAT, so it should basically take care of itself.

Kaisr Sose · 19-05-2017 8:43am

I was looking at Canyon and Rose for bike to work but gave up due to the payment issue. Employers need an invoice for 1000 max. They will only issue one invoice for the full value. If the invoice is more than €1000, they can't part pay it and have somebody else pay the balance. It's an invoice payable by them in full or it comes up as an anomaly for audit.

CramCycle · 19-05-2017 8:57am

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

I was looking at Canyon and Rose for bike to work but gave up due to the payment issue. Employers need an invoice for 1000 max. They will only issue one invoice for the full value. If the invoice is more than ?1000, they can't part pay it and have somebody else pay the balance. It's an invoice payable by them in full or it comes up as an anomaly for audit.

Not completely true. Employers could pay the 1149 and treat the 149 as either a deduction after tax or as BIK (with a correlating deduction in pay). Nothing dodgy or illegal with either option AFAIK. You may have to treat the 149 as an interest free loan for tax purposes but since it would be paid off within a very short period and is so little, not sure if it makes any difference.

Seve OB · 19-05-2017 9:09am

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

it comes up as an anomaly for audit.

with a perfectly reasonable explanation.

iwillhtfu · 19-05-2017 9:25am

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

I was looking at Canyon and Rose for bike to work but gave up due to the payment issue. Employers need an invoice for 1000 max. They will only issue one invoice for the full value. If the invoice is more than €1000, they can't part pay it and have somebody else pay the balance. It's an invoice payable by them in full or it comes up as an anomaly for audit.

That's not really the case to be honest its going to be employer dependant. I purchased a bike from Canyon well above the €1000 bike to work limit. I paid the balance directly to my employer and they paid the invoice in total.

Afaik Canyon won't accept two separate payments so OP you may well be stuck on that one. Perhaps they might accept a deposit with the balance to be paid by your employer.

DDC1990 · 19-05-2017 11:56am

iwillhtfu wrote:

Afaik Canyon won't accept two separate payments so OP you may well be stuck on that one. Perhaps they might accept a deposit with the balance to be paid by your employer.

I emailed Canyon and they said that I can pay the first part myself and have my employer pay the rest, which is perfect.

Thanks for the advice guys.

Kaisr Sose · 21-05-2017 11:43am

Seve OB wrote: »

with a perfectly reasonable explanation.

True. Some companies will use it as a reason not to do it (and they don't have to agree to it)

Carnmore · 08-06-2017 1:57pm

I know someone who's a higher rate taxpayer but they can only get 45% tax relief.

They are not getting the full 52% relief because they are jointly assessed with their spouse for tax purposes.

I understood there were only two relief bands - 52% and 31%.

Can anyone explain this?

cython · 08-06-2017 2:08pm

Carnmore wrote: »

I know someone who's a higher rate taxpayer but they can only get 45% tax relief.

They are not getting the full 52% relief because they are jointly assessed with their spouse for tax purposes.

I understood there were only two relief bands - 52% and 31%.

Can anyone explain this?

Can't comment on the specifics of joint assessment, but the most common scenario where someone gets relief at a blended rate like that is where their gross earnings pre-sacrifice are above the standard rate cut off, and post sacrifice they come under the standard rate cut off, resulting in a component of relief at the higher rate, and a component at the lower, with the total relief meeting somewhere in the middle of the two rates as happens here.

It is, however, a misconception that relief is only available at these two rates, and to my knowledge the 52% now only applies if you are in the highest band for USC (above 70k), and the more common marginal rate is actually 51%.

py · 09-06-2017 10:00am

Anyone bought B2W from planetx.co.uk when it's a direct payment and not a voucher? Prices in .ie outlet are a little high compared to .co.uk.

dylbert · 01-07-2017 11:54am

Has anyone bought a bike online using the cycle to work scheme?

I love Sean nos · 01-07-2017 11:56am

dylbert wrote: »

Has anyone bought a bike online using the cycle to work scheme?

No, it's never happened.

Bike to Work scheme - the Megathread - Read post #1 before posting

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