Official Conor McGregor thread (part 3) *Updated Warning in 1st Post Re:Boxing match

walshb · 21-06-2017 02:33PM

wonderfullife wrote: »

Silly debate is you saying Conor has more chance of beating Stipe.

.

Poll it then.....

Conor beating Stipe in MMA VS. Conot beating Floyd in boxing..

EagererBeaver · 21-06-2017 02:38PM

wonderfullife wrote: »

But in my book, success is Conor making it a competitive encounter. Whether that's *winning*, going 12-rounds, landing more than Berto, dropping Floyd or making him take a standing 8-count, there's many ways to argue it was a success from Conor's point of view.

You have to be careful here - if it goes 12 rounds because Floyd is having fun and toying with him, it can't really be called a success. There are fights that go the distance and there are fights that go the distance.

wonderfullife wrote: »

The point is this - whatever footage we see of Conor in training (be it MMA or boxing) is irrelevant. He's not a gym fighter. He comes into his own on the big stage under the bright lights when the pressure is at its maximum.

This is just spin and marketing drivel. Utter nonsense.

wonderfullife · 21-06-2017 02:39PM

Mellor wrote: »

Betfair is only one market, but it is actually showing the activity is on Floyds side.

Total matched on this win marke: €2,779,870
Amount matched on Conor: €789,888
Amount matched on Floyd: €1,974,311
Draw: €15,670

Vast majority of the bets are on Conor at small stakes.

Vast majority of the money will be on Floyd at large stakes.

EagererBeaver wrote: »

What about a 0.1% chance? Or a 0.01% chance.? Try and see the wood from the trees. Anyone saying he has "no chance" is unlikely to have assessed the statistical likelihood of that occurring. Rather, they're simply saying that there's simply no way they can see him winning

0.01% chance I'm fine with someone saying but the likes of Max Kellerman saying he won't land a single punch are just hating on the sport of MMA. Most of that hyperbole is coming from HBO connected pundits as well. I guarantee if it was on HBO with Kellerman on commentary, he would be saying "who knows, it's a fight, Conor might land".

walshb wrote: »

Poll it then.....

Conor beating Stipe in MMA VS. Conot beating Floyd in boxing..

I don't know how to do polls but if you do then put it up.

walshb · 21-06-2017 02:42PM

wonderfullife wrote: »

I don't know how to do polls but if you do then put it up.

You are the one calling it bull....

wonderfullife · 21-06-2017 02:42PM

EagererBeaver wrote: »

You have to be careful here - if it goes 12 rounds because Floyd is having fun and toying with him, it can't really be called a success. There are fights that go the distance and there are fights that go the distance.

This is just spin and marketing drivel. Utter nonsense.

Ah right, so even if Conor makes it 12-rounds you'll refuse to give him credit if you believe Floyd was just messing around and toying with him?

Convenient and predictable.

And no, it's not just spin. I've heard Firas Zahabi and Greg Jackson many times explain that some fighters are amazing in the gym (world beaters) but on the big stage they're average. Conor is not a renowned gym fighter but he comes alive on the big stage.

walshb · 21-06-2017 02:46PM

wonderfullife wrote: »

Ah right, so even if Conor makes it 12-rounds you'll refuse to give him credit if you believe Floyd was just messing around and toying with him?

But what is to credit if Floyd toys around with him for 12 rds? Does that deserve credit when you consider he's getting paid ridiculous amounts of money to be toyed around with...

I could credit him for fooling so many into paying to see the farce and making him stinking rich. And it appears fooling some who actually believed that he himself thought he'd win.

CatFromHue · 21-06-2017 02:48PM

Yeah but that's in their own sport where they'll have had loads of experience.

It's a bit different for Conor as he doesn't have that boxing experience to fall back on.

EagererBeaver · 21-06-2017 02:53PM

wonderfullife wrote: »

Ah right, so even if Conor makes it 12-rounds you'll refuse to give him credit if you believe Floyd was just messing around and toying with him?

Convenient and predictable.

Convenient and predictable? Please try and look at this with some degree of objectivity. I haven't said either is going to happen but obviously I believe Mayweather wins easily and comfortably.

What I'm trying to explain to you, at length, is that the fight is likely to go 12 rounds as a result of one of two scenarios. In the first, McGregor puts on the performance of a lifetime and takes Mayweather the distance with Mayweather having to at lest work hard for the win. In the second, Mayweather has his way with him whatever way he wants and plays about with him the whole fight on his way to a 120-108 decision without having to break a sweat. It will be very easy to tell the difference between the two.

Surely you can see the difference here? Now let me work this out very clearly for you:

In the first scenario, McGregor deserves lots of credit and his performance can be considered a success.

In the second, he doesn't really deserve any credit and it couldn't/shouldn't be considered a success?

Geddit?

walshb · 21-06-2017 02:59PM

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Convenient and predictable? Please try and look at this with some degree of objectivity. I haven't said either is going to happen but obviously I believe Mayweather wins early and comfortably.

What I'm trying to explain to you, at length, is that the fight is likely to go 12 rounds as a result of two scenarios. In the first, McGregor puts on the performance of a lifetime and takes Mayweather the distance with Mayweather having to at lest work hard for the win. In the second, Mayweather has his way with him whatever way he wants and plays about with him the whole fight on his way to a 120-108 decision without having to break a sweat. It will be very easy to tell the difference between the two.

Surely you can see the difference here? Now let me work this out very clearly for you:

In the first scenario, McGregor deserves lots of credit and his performance can be considered a success.

In the second, he doesn't really deserve any credit and it couldn't/shouldn't be considered a success?

Geddit?

Throw in the odd 10-8 round here and there as well.

I said from the start that don't be surprised if this is nothing more than a glorified spar/exhibition with nobody getting "hurt" and Floyd walking away with the win, and all the people that were expecting a real fight left gobsmacked.

Not saying it happens but I for one won't be surprised.

There will be no credit here at all....

Mellor · 21-06-2017 03:03PM

wonderfullife wrote: »

Vast majority of the bets are on Conor at small stakes.

Vast majority of the money will be on Floyd at large stakes.

The size of the stakes isn't really relevant, totals only matter in a market.
The point was that the bookies were being pounded on Conor overall. I was showing that the data on betfair shows that there's been much more activity on Floyds side.
In terms of liability, Conors market might have the greater liability for the lay side still due to the price. Maybe 680k vrs 300k.
But the face is, people putting down that 300k in the pink Floyd did so as odds of 1.1 to 1.25. That's a ridiculous price, there are very people taking those bets that don't know what they are doing.

wonderfullife · 21-06-2017 03:10PM

EagererBeaver wrote: »

obviously I believe Mayweather wins easily and comfortably.

What I'm trying to explain to you, at length, is that the fight is likely to go 12 rounds as a result of two scenarios. In the first, McGregor puts on the performance of a lifetime and takes Mayweather the distance with Mayweather having to at lest work hard for the win. In the second, Mayweather has his way with him whatever way he wants and plays about with him the whole fight on his way to a 120-108 decision without having to break a sweat. It will be very easy to tell the difference between the two.

Surely you can see the difference here? Now let me work this out very clearly for you:

In the first scenario, McGregor deserves lots of credit and his performance can be considered a success.

In the second, he doesn't really deserve any credit and it couldn't/shouldn't be considered a success?

Geddit?

I get where you're coming from but I believe you're not being fair because Floyd has "toyed" with his last 4 opponents according to most experts. He played around with Berto, Manny, Canelo, Maidana in the rematch.

You're saying if he plays around with Conor like he did to those lads, that Conor wouldn't deserve any credit for taking it the full 12-rounds.

You can't on one hand say Conor will be hopelessly out-matched and destroyed and on the other hand say 'well he deserves no credit for going the distance because Floyd toyed with him'.

Floyd toys with all his food but if the skill difference is on the scale you're suggesting, he should be stopping Conor. So regardless of what Floyd decides to do, if it goes the full 12-rounds Conor deserves massive credit.

walshb wrote: »

I said from the start that don't be surprised if this is nothing more than a glorified spar/exhibition with nobody getting hurt and Floyd walking away with the win, and all the people that were expecting a real fight left gobsmacked.

Not saying it happens but I for one won't be surprised.

There will be no credit here at all....

Conor will be going in there to try rip his head off.

If it was a "glorified spar", Conor would be taking it nice and handy also. He won't be.

Unless you believe Conor and Floyd have a secret agreement to go handy on each other?

Axwell · 21-06-2017 03:18PM

Lads cut out some of the nonsense going on here - attack the post and not the poster and keep it civil. Also try keep it within the realms of sensible discussion, I have removed that pointless poll for said reason. This thread is enough to discuss the fight until there is an event thread and there will be a poll for the fight itself then. We dont need any other threads or polls before then..

EagererBeaver · 21-06-2017 03:20PM

wonderfullife wrote: »

I get where you're coming from but I believe you're not being fair because Floyd has "toyed" with his last 4 opponents according to most experts. He played around with Berto, Manny, Canelo, Maidana in the rematch.

Again, there are levels to this. If he performs to the level those guys did, it will be self evident and he'll deserve credit given they're elite boxers and he's not.

If Mayweather is truly playing with him and toying with him, it'll also be self evident.

walshb · 21-06-2017 03:31PM

wonderfullife wrote: »

Conor will be going in there to try rip his head off.

If it was a "glorified spar", Conor would be taking it nice and handy also. He won't be.

Unless you believe Conor and Floyd have a secret agreement to go handy on each other?

If you say so.

And should Floyd toy with a head ripping Conor for 12 rds enroute to a convincing points win then credit won't be coming from me.

If Floyd does not toy with him and has to work for the win, whether it be convincing or otherwise then credit will be coming from me.

Mellor · 21-06-2017 03:51PM

martyos121 wrote: »

The fact that you can back Mayweather as long as 1/6 suggests the bookies don't understand combat sports either. If I wasn't afraid of the possibility of shenanigans in this bout, I would genuinely put everything I own on it, and whatever I could loan. In a proper contest, he's 1/50 at worst, but given the money surrounding this and the money a potential rematch will do, myself and many others will probably have to bet somewhat conservatively, just in case.

I think there is close to zero chance of those kind of shenanigans tbh.
Floyd loves money. But I don't think he'd give up 50-0 for it.

walshb · 21-06-2017 03:57PM

Mayweather will not agree to throw this fight or lose deliberately. I think that is probably the most certain thing of all from this. The rest is all up in the air...

MartyMcFly84 · 21-06-2017 04:00PM

Its safe to say Conor has a much bigger chance at beating Floyd in and Boxing match than Floyd does at beating Conor in an MMA match.

There are lots of unknowns and too many variables to count anyone out. Logic would point one way but we have not seen this kind of match up before so who knows what will happen a chance is a chance no matter how small. What is cool, is we are going to find out.

Subcomandante Marcos · 21-06-2017 04:36PM

wonderfullife wrote: »

I think Conor lands 90-100 punches on Floyd through 9 rounds by the official Compubox numbers. Berto landed 83 through 12.

You think Conor is a better boxer than Berto?

You're delusional.

wonderfullife · 21-06-2017 04:38PM

Jesse Vargas:

Q1. What do you think of Mayweather-McGregor?

A. I think it's good. It won't be a competitive fight but it'll settle doubts (in casuals) as to boxing versus MMA.

Q2. Is there anything Conor can do?

A. Try land a lucky punch and knock him out. It's all he can do.

Q3. MMA fans will argue Conor boxed as an amateur and is a good striker, can you speak to how hard boxing is?

A. Boxing is a skillful art. You need to learn reflexes and movement. In boxing you need to learn how to move left, move right, learn to plan a few steps ahead. It takes a long time. I don't know how UFC works but I think you have a background of wrestling or jiujitsu and you fill your arsenal after that but wrestling is your number 1 tactic or jiujitsu is your number 1 tactic.

Q. Did you see the van Heerden sparring and what did you think of it?

A. I really don't care to see it.

In a nutshell, that interview sums up boxing and boxing fans. Complete ignorance of MMA. Complete ignorance of Conor. Complete arrogance as to their sport.

You get the sense Vargas and lads like him would fancy their chances in a street fight against Tony Ferguson or Kevin Lee. It's pretty sad stuff that they aren't aware they'd be killed.

21-06-2017 04:39PM

wonderfullife wrote: »

It's a fight anything can happen.

Floyd might KO Conor just as quickly as Conor KO'd Aldo.

But in my book, success is Conor making it a competitive encounter. Whether that's *winning*, going 12-rounds, landing more than Berto, dropping Floyd or making him take a standing 8-count, there's many ways to argue it was a success from Conor's point of view.

My bar for it being a success is a lot higher than most peoples because I have faith in Conor.

People keep going on about the van Heerden sparring footage. I guarantee you 100% we could see footage of Conor sparring Artem in MMA over the years where Artem does really well and tools Conor up. Both Conor and Artem are on record saying they've had some absolute wars in the gym.

The point is this - whatever footage we see of Conor in training (be it MMA or boxing) is irrelevant. He's not a gym fighter. He comes into his own on the big stage under the bright lights when the pressure is at its maximum.

What makes you have faith in Conors boxing?

wonderfullife · 21-06-2017 04:42PM

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

You think Conor is a better boxer than Berto?

You're delusional.

Logic fail 101.

I think he lands more punches for a whole variety of reasons.

Landing more punches doesn't make necessarily make you a better fighter. Marcos Maidana landed way more punches in both fights than Manny did. Doesn't make him a better fighter.

Diego Brandao landed more punches than Eddie Alvarez did. Doesn't make him better than Eddie.

Think next time.

walshb · 21-06-2017 04:42PM

wonderfullife wrote: »

Jesse Vargas:

Q1. What do you think of Mayweather-McGregor?

A. I think it's good. It won't be a competitive fight but it'll settle doubts (in casuals) as to boxing versus MMA.

Who are these casuals having doubts? Doubts about boxers maybe being successful against MMA fighters in boxing matches?

I have never heard such a BS answer...

Not a dig at you, btw. A dig at Vargas.

wonderfullife · 21-06-2017 04:45PM

Deleted User wrote: »

What makes you have faith in Conors boxing?

I've faith in him.

If he believes he can do this, then I believe him.

But if you want a technical answer, he really doesn't have a tell with his straight left because he carries his hands low. I think he'll land the left every round. I also think his outside-slips are outrageously good and his counters are very precise.

I think he can do well even against an elite defensive guy.

walshb · 21-06-2017 04:46PM

wonderfullife wrote: »

You get the sense Vargas and lads like him would fancy their chances in a street fight against Tony Ferguson or Kevin Lee. It's pretty sad stuff that they aren't aware they'd be killed.

You do realize what a street fight is? It's no rules at all, where all it can take is one punch to kill a man. So, it's not at all sad to think that any capable man could kill another man in a street fight. Doesn't matter what the background is of the man killed. It all comes down to the situation.

21-06-2017 04:52PM

wonderfullife wrote: »

I've faith in him.

If he believes he can do this, then I believe him.

But if you want a technical answer, he really doesn't have a tell with his straight left because he carries his hands low. I think he'll land the left every round. I also think his outside-slips are outrageously good and his counters are very precise.

I think he can do well even against an elite defensive guy.

He carries his hands low in MMA cause of the fear of take downs, if he does that in boxing, he will get killed by Mayweather. I can't see him fighting in that stance in a boxing match. Conors striking is one of the best in MMA I wont argue with that but in boxing all they do is striking, Floyds striking is 10x better than any mma striker.

I have faith in Conor regarding MMA, but when Conor says he can win this what he is doing imo is selling a fight and collecting bank. I dont think he thinks himself he can win this, Conor has self confidence by the bucket load but he isn't delusional. He is hardly going to say "I have no chance" in the run up to the fight.

walshb · 21-06-2017 04:53PM

If Conor said he could beat Usain Bolt over 200 meters there would be fanboys believing that he believes it....

Wake up, fellas. Conor is selling something, and doing an excellent job it seems.

dashoonage · 21-06-2017 04:55PM

walshb wrote: »

If Conor said he could beat Usain Bolt over 200 meters there would be fanboys believing that he believes it....

Wake up, fellas. Conor is selling something, and doing an excellent job it seems.

With Ido in his corner and the McNuggetFast system he has a chance over 200m...

wonderfullife · 21-06-2017 04:55PM

walshb wrote: »

You do realize what a street fight is? It's no rules at all, where all it can take is one punch to kill a man. So, it's not at all sad to think that any capable man could kill another man in a street fight. Doesn't matter what the background is of the man killed. It all comes down to the situation.

It's tremendously sad to think any 154lb pro boxer has a decent chance in a street fight against anyone in the top 40 at Lightweight in the UFC.

A hail mary punch in the first 3 seconds is the only chance they have in a street fight, if they don't land it instantly they'll be double-legged, taken down and choked out.

EagererBeaver · 21-06-2017 04:56PM

wonderfullife wrote: »

In a nutshell, that interview sums up boxing and boxing fans. Complete ignorance of MMA. Complete ignorance of Conor. Complete arrogance as to their sport.

You get the sense Vargas and lads like him would fancy their chances in a street fight against Tony Ferguson or Kevin Lee. It's pretty sad stuff that they aren't aware they'd be killed.

a) he was asked questions about boxing and answered them. There's nothing ignorant about not having an interest in MMA.

b) the point you've made up about street fights is complete and utter bull**** conjecture. What is the relevance to any of this is a hypothetical street fight?!

The only thing that's pretty sad here are the lengths you're going to to see angles here that simply don't exist.

walshb · 21-06-2017 04:57PM

wonderfullife wrote: »

It's tremendously sad to think any 154lb pro boxer has a decent chance in a street fight against anyone in the top 40 at Lightweight in the UFC.

A hail mary punch in the first 3 seconds is the only chance they have in a street fight, if they don't land it instantly they'll be double-legged, taken down and choked out.

It is not the only chance. It's a street fight, no rules. It is not MMA and it is not boxing....

You need to be a little more specific before you throw around these claims...

Official Conor McGregor thread (part 3) *Updated Warning in 1st Post Re:Boxing match

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