London Fire and Aftermath RIP

smurgen · 16-06-2017 10:21AM

Deleted User wrote: »

osarusan wrote: »

If this is genuine, it makes me want to cave some fucking heads in at that paper.

Utter scum.

It is real, though it doesn't seem to be the main Daily Mail twitter for whatever reason. Dirty bastards.

I'd say it is, they had a big article on the Mail online yesterday about him.I mean it might not even be true,I don't know how that paper gets away with what it does. It's one of the instruments dividing British society.

mikeybrennan · 16-06-2017 10:24AM

Widdershins wrote: »

Like my friend who keeps making himself officially ''homeless'' despite owning two houses and constantly complaining about his rate of benefits. He rejects the help he is offered and prefers to be a victim. There's more than meets the eye to the sob stories of Tory heartlessness.

I've actually just noticed the post about the amount of political comments and have to admit I forgot what thread I was on after reading a load of those comments last night. I too abhor political pointscoring from tragedies so I'm unfollowing this thread.

You could just unfollow without pointscoring yourself?

devnull · 16-06-2017 10:34AM

Just seem on Sky News a Journalist asking why Theresa May was not here and was being fobbed off by Andrea Leadsom saying if May thinks it is helpful she would but there are other things she is doing to help and then going onto that she herself is here to meet relatives and victims.

Journalist asked a few more times slightly different about why May was not here and still no answers, journalist then asked the residents and people from the community gathered around where the interview was taking place if they think May should be there and they then started ripping into Leadsom.

robinph · 16-06-2017 11:12AM

The Queen and Prince Philip are currently at the scene and are meeting actual people.

That screws up Mays security concerns reason for not meeting people.

ohnonotgmail · 16-06-2017 11:17AM

robinph wrote: »

The Queen and Prince Philip are currently at the scene and are meeting actual people.

That screws up Mays security concerns reason for not meeting people.

the difference is that some people actually like the queen and prince philip.

robinph · 16-06-2017 11:21AM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the difference is that some people actually like the queen and prince philip.

Surprisingly some people seem to like May as well according to last weeks election.

FrancieBrady · 16-06-2017 11:23AM

robinph wrote: »

Surprisingly some people seem to like May as well according to last weeks election.

Or they just hated Corbyn more?

ohnonotgmail · 16-06-2017 11:23AM

robinph wrote: »

Surprisingly some people seem to like May as well according to last weeks election.

i dont think anybody in that part of london would be included in that set.

The_Kew_Tour · 16-06-2017 11:26AM

Awful sad. A nightmare and its sad to see life perish so easy for something that could have been avoided for so little

FrancieBrady · 16-06-2017 11:29AM

Says a lot about the intelligence of our modern politicians. Did it not dawn on him that this kind of pointless comment could come back to bite him and make a mockery of the ethos of his party.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-cameron-i-will-kill-off-safety-culture-6285238.html

Laois_Man · 16-06-2017 11:53AM

Lily Allen hearing close to 150 dead and giving out that the media are downplaying it....

mikeybrennan · 16-06-2017 11:57AM

tara73 wrote: »

this I believe too at this stage. if you go on the website of the main contractor for the refurbishment of the tower, Rydon Contractors, they are a very big company, they were doing a lot of this tower block refurbishments for the management companies, speak the authorities.
they have a lot of experience and I doubt they used a material not in compliance with the fire regulations.

but somebody else posted the article in the Times, it says it all, it's written there that this material is banned in the U.S and Germany and probably in many other countries.
As we see, with reason.

Has the obvious question been answered yet?

How many tower blocks have been cladded with the same stuff?

retro:electro · 16-06-2017 11:59AM

Lily is nothing but a scourge. I'm sure the families of those missing/dead don't appreciate a failed pop star mouthing off about their loved ones. It's impossible to declare someone dead when there is no evidence to presume that yet. I'm sure the figures will rise once they've entered the top floor. Let the firemen do their job you mong.

suicide_circus · 16-06-2017 12:02PM

What do people think Theresa May would achieve by going round and shaking hands other than a photo op which people would then brand as cynical?

muddypaws · 16-06-2017 12:11PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

What do people think Theresa May would achieve by going round and shaking hands other than a photo op which people would then brand as cynical?

Probably the same that Sadiq Khan achieved when he visited and was heckled by an angry crowd. She is in charge of the country at the moment, a cliche yes, but with power comes responsiblity. It is surely part of the role of being head of anything that you deal with the bad as well as the good.

People want to feel that they are being listened to and that they and their friends and family matter. Her visit with the emergency services was private, with no media allowed, she could have done the same with the survivors and families.

If you're going to be a leader, you need to lead - everyone, not just people who like you.

robinph · 16-06-2017 12:13PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

What do people think Theresa May would achieve by going round and shaking hands other than a photo op which people would then brand as cynical?

Not a lot, but hiding away from the public certainly does nothing to help her image problem of being someone that hides away from the public.

Her job in this instance is to turn up, let people vent a bit at the authority figure, look upset, say we are going to have a proper investigation and this won't happen again. When the top authority figure hides away from letting people vent, however pointless the venting is, it just makes people who feel they are not being listened to feel that they are not being listened to.

The population need to feel that someone is listening and cares about them.

orangerhyme · 16-06-2017 12:19PM

Authorities would have a good idea of the number of casualties.
They will have a list of residents and a list of people in hospital and a list of survivors.
It's basic arithmetic to figure out how many are unaccounted for.
This figure will be close to 100 with many children.

If they release this figure, with the current angry crowds, there will be protests followed by riots.
Britain is a tinder keg.

tara73 · 16-06-2017 12:20PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_p_PdqjVvI

ThisRegard · 16-06-2017 12:21PM

30 dead is now the official number from the police.

Cantona's Collars · 16-06-2017 12:24PM

orangerhyme wrote: »

Authorities would have a good idea of the number of casualties.
They will have a list of residents and a list of people in hospital and a list of survivors.
It's basic arithmetic to figure out how many are unaccounted for.
This figure will be close to 100 with many children.

If they release this figure, with the current angry crowds, there will be protests followed by riots.
Britain is a tinder keg.

I'd say anybody that has any connection with residents of the complex had a fair idea the amount of victims.As you say it will be drip fed out by authorities as the anger amongst the public is such that it wouldn't take much for the city to kick off.The 17 confirmed victims were in the areas that firemen could reach, how many are in the top third? Whole families probably perished.

Atlantic Dawn · 16-06-2017 12:25PM

What I can't understand is why the police have not at this stage given an estimate of the numbers of missing purely going on reports given to them of missing persons. By now they should have narrowed down the list to there or therabouts to give an estimate, the true figure may never be known, it's like they are conspiring to cover the truth up for long enough until the anger dies down.

inforfun · 16-06-2017 12:25PM

orangerhyme wrote: »

Authorities would have a good idea of the number of casualties.
They will have a list of residents and a list of people in hospital and a list of survivors.
It's basic arithmetic to figure out how many are unaccounted for.
This figure will be close to 100 with many children.

If they release this figure, with the current angry crowds, there will be protests followed by riots.
Britain is a tinder keg.

Might not be that easy.

I brought up the Bijlmerramp earlier in this thread. Plane crash into high rise building near Schiphol in 1982

Victims[edit]

Flight 1862
43 people died in the accident: the four occupants of the aircraft (three crew and one non-revenue passenger) and 39 people on the ground.[4](p9) This was considerably lower than expected: the police had originally estimated a death toll of over 200,[11] and Amsterdam Mayor Ed van Thijn had said that 240 people were missing.[8][9] At the time of the crash many potential victims were not at home, possibly because of the pleasant weather on the evening of the crash.[citation needed] Twenty-six people sustained non-fatal injuries; 11 of these were injured seriously enough to require hospital treatment.[4](p9)

The belief has persisted that the actual number of victims killed in the crash was considerably higher. Bijlmermeer has a high number of residents living there illegally, particularly from Ghana and Suriname, and members of the Ghanaian community stated they lost a considerable number of undocumented occupants who were not counted among the dead.[12]

Can see similar issues here with many more people in that building than registered officially.

robinph · 16-06-2017 12:25PM

orangerhyme wrote: »

Authorities would have a good idea of the number of casualties.
They will have a list of residents and a list of people in hospital and a list of survivors.
It's basic arithmetic to figure out how many are unaccounted for.
This figure will be close to 100 with many children.

If they release this figure, with the current angry crowds, there will be protests followed by riots.
Britain is a tinder keg.

That won't be why they are not saying the number, they are just following the normal procedures for not confirming the dead until they have identified who they actually are. At some point they will say that they just can't identify each body and give the number, but for now they are not saying anything to confirm a death until they can confirm who each person is.

Nothing unusual here, and certainly not a case of information being held back to prevent a riot. Everyone knows that there is going to be significantly more deaths confirmed.

Cantona's Collars · 16-06-2017 12:29PM

Police have updated the death toll,stands at 30 now.

Harry Palmr · 16-06-2017 12:41PM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

What I can't understand is why the police have not at this stage given an estimate of the numbers of missing purely going on reports given to them of missing persons. By now they should have narrowed down the list to there or therabouts to give an estimate, the true figure may never be known, it's like they are conspiring to cover the truth up for long enough until the anger dies down.

The authorities don't like to do estimates of dead people, it's fine for us but they've got be as sure as they can that everyone who can be accounted for is accounted for before issuing a final number (if they ever do as the exact number of people in a tower block at a given moment is hard maybe impossible to know). They have noted that bodies that are recovered may be beyond identification.

(As for Lily Allen, Christ she makes her dad seem self-effacing)

orangerhyme · 16-06-2017 12:44PM

robinph wrote: »

That won't be why they are not saying the number, they are just following the normal procedures for not confirming the dead until they have identified who they actually are. At some point they will say that they just can't identify each body and give the number, but for now they are not saying anything to confirm a death until they can confirm who each person is.

Nothing unusual here, and certainly not a case of information being held back to prevent a riot. Everyone knows that there is going to be significantly more deaths confirmed.

I believe rioting is top of their minds.
Remember Aug 2011?
That was over an adult male criminal being shot by police.
How will people react when dozens of children have burnt to death?
Anti austerity protests have been common in England since the Tories got elected. This is a disaster in part caused by council cuts.

Why have the media not released a figure? Lily Allen is correct, she's on the ground, sees the anger.
I bet by today the authorities have a pretty good estimate of the number of victims and the media knows it too.

Atlantic Dawn · 16-06-2017 12:49PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The authorities don't like to do estimates of dead people, it's fine for us but they've got be as sure as they can that everyone who can be accounted for is accounted for before issuing a final number (if they ever do as the exact number of people in a tower block at a given moment is hard maybe impossible to know). They have noted that bodies that are recovered may be beyond identification.

(As for Lily Allen, Christ she makes her dad seem self-effacing)

But they should still have an accurate number now of those reported missing, we don't expect a confirmed dead number for months or sadly perhaps ever. I know if the houses across the road from mine were engulfed in flame and all destroyed myself and those others living around me would be able to give a 80-90% accurate number of how many people would have lived in those houses and that along with missing persons report we could say x number are missing. It's not like the homes were a pub or niteclub where figures would vary considerably depending on the night in question.

FrancieBrady · 16-06-2017 12:52PM

Great, really really great, to see a popster challenge the media and establishment.
I come from an era when musicians were radicals and a voice of the people.

Of course it is gonna be met with the usual 'who does she think she is' begrudgery and pettiness but you can sense genuine anger when you see and hear it.

Harry Palmr · 16-06-2017 12:52PM

Tower blocks tend to have transient populations.

16-06-2017 12:55PM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

But they should still have an accurate number now of those reported missing, we don't expect a confirmed dead number for months or sadly perhaps ever. I know if the houses across the road from mine were engulfed in flame and all destroyed myself and those others living around me would be able to give a 80-90% accurate number of how many people would have lived in those houses and that along with missing persons report we could say x number are missing. It's not like the homes were a pub or niteclub where figures would vary considerably depending on the night in question.

By now they really should, but the last few days would have been tough. One cop said a person was reported missing over 40 times. If you consider how many Muhammeds and similar surnames may well have been in there it's going take a while to pin down.

London Fire and Aftermath RIP

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