Buying bitcoins

jester77 · 12-06-2017 10:36PM

seanino wrote: »

Hi everyone,
Ive been procrastinating about buying some bitcoins/ethereum. Had bitcoins ages ago but the sites etc have changed a good bit since.
is coinbase the best place to buy ethereum and bitcoin? Coinbase is now down. I can buy bitcoin on blockchain either but might hold off now as its dropped a bit. Just wondering if you had a decent amount in your wallet and you want to get rid quick. How do you do it? The whole buying and selling seems very slow when you would want it to be quick!?
I see kracken mentioned also but its 7% fee!

Do most people use credit cards or sepa, do the payments look dodgy on the bank statement?
Cheers,
seanino

SEPA is cheaper, less fees. Plus it's pretty quick, if I send a transfer in the morning, it is usually there around lunch time.

Not sure what you mean by dodgy, you are just transferring money to/from another account. Their account is based in Estonia.

pro_gnostic_8 · 13-06-2017 08:37AM

seanino wrote: »

Hi everyone,
Do most people use credit cards or sepa, do the payments look dodgy on the bank statement?
Cheers,
seanino

I can tell you from experience that banks are not enamoured with regular in-and-out transfers to/from bitcoin-related entities on your bank account.
It is not hard to understand why, I suppose, as bitcoin is seen by them (banks) as an existential threat to their financial hegemony.

davidclayton · 13-06-2017 08:52AM

Very new to cryptocurrency and having a bad time with coinbase right now, which got me to thinking... Is there a website that lets you set a value to buy and sell your ethereum, and how much to buy/sell?

For example, if ETH dipped below €300, buy €100 worth, or if it exceeded €400, sell €200. So you don't have to check it constantly and manually buy/sell.

I know that coinbase has a notifications feature (although it doesn't work very well), but this would still require you to manually buy/sell.

Dohnjoe · 13-06-2017 08:53AM

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

It is not hard to understand why, I suppose, as bitcoin is seen by them (banks) as an existential threat to their financial hegemony.

Bitcoin is seen as risky, which it is. Banks are very risk adverse.

If a customer engages in illegal activity, without the banks knowledge - the bank can still be blamed for not detecting it or performing due diligence. Can result in reputational damage, can result in fines, further down the line it could possibly affect a bank's rating with the rating agencies (which can affect it's ability to get sufficient credit and do business)

It's not just Bitcoin, they are other currencies and types of transactions that may trigger red flags and attract a compliance officer's interest.

lawred2 · 13-06-2017 08:53AM

davidclayton wrote: »

Very new to cryptocurrency and having a bad time with coinbase right now, which got me to thinking... Is there a website that lets you set a value to buy and sell your ethereum, and how much to buy/sell?

For example, if ETH dipped below €300, buy €100 worth, or if it exceeded €400, sell €200. So you don't have to check it constantly and manually buy/sell.

I know that coinbase has a notifications feature (although it doesn't work very well), but this would still require you to manually buy/sell.

Kraken/Poloniex will allow you to do your typical range of exchange orders..

davidclayton · 13-06-2017 09:07AM

lawred2 wrote: »

Kraken/Poloniex will allow you to do your typical range of exchange orders..

I've seen lots of people mention these 2 companies together in recommendations - do they offer the exact same service & features, or do they differ?

lawred2 · 13-06-2017 09:11AM

davidclayton wrote: »

I've seen lots of people mention these 2 companies together in recommendations - do they offer the exact same service & features, or do they differ?

well with Kraken you can fund using fiat currencies, you also have a smaller subset of currencies to trade - poloniex has a much wider set but funding can only be done via crypto transfers

pro_gnostic_8 · 13-06-2017 09:12AM

lawred2 wrote: »

Kraken/Poloniex will allow you to do your typical range of exchange orders..

Yes, just put in a buy or a sell order at a price-level of your choosing.

But there is a definite risk involved !
If (or, most likely when) an exchange "goes down" during a period of high volatility and high customer demand, or if subjected to a concentrated DDoS attack, then your sell order will be executed without you being able to cancel it. For example, if you have put in a sell ETH order for $300 and then the price starts collapsing down to, say, $200 you might not be able to cancel manually.
This happened in a catastrophic way only last month at Kraken. People lost fortunes.

cnocbui · 13-06-2017 10:00AM

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

I can tell you from experience that banks are not enamoured with regular in-and-out transfers to/from bitcoin-related entities on your bank account.
It is not hard to understand why, I suppose, as bitcoin is seen by them (banks) as an existential threat to their financial hegemony.

They have no legal or moral right to raise objections. Investing is not illegal. Investing in Cryptos is not illegal, just as betting on the hoses, stock market, or price of gold are not illegal. In Australia, the banks seem to have indeed felt under threat, as you have suggested, and have closed people's accounts. They are currently being investigated for this practice. I hope they are fined and forced to pay some compensation to those affected, not just another fine going into government coffers.

If banks are truly suspicious of illegal activity, they can and should report it, but activity involving cryptos is not automatically illegal activity and they should pull their heads in.

Dohnjoe · 13-06-2017 10:51AM

cnocbui wrote: »

If banks are truly suspicious of illegal activity, they can and should report it, but activity involving cryptos is not automatically illegal activity and they should pull their heads in.

It's best to keep proof or records of when and how you obtained your coins (legally) This is the information they are most interested in.

Banks are cautious enough of risky national currencies (e.g. NGN, ISK), it's only reasonable that they are cautious of something that isn't even a recognised currency

Also a lot of people who are successfully cashing out large amounts seem to be checking with financial advisors first

callaway92 · 13-06-2017 11:03AM

I don't think I'd have the heart to put big money into Bitcoin. Was toying with the idea of five figures but it's too volatile.

Still like the idea of a small sum to leave for 6 months (a long time in this market).

Dohnjoe · 13-06-2017 11:17AM

An amount you can afford to lose seems best, I'd go with 50/50 BTC/Eth

Eth for growth potential (has gone up 300% in the last month), they partially seem to hedge against each other, and BTC has stood the test of time and is the common denominator for all other alts (aka everyone needs it to trade)

6 months or a year down the line, if there are profits, then will be easier to validate further investment with the extra knowledge of the market - feels much less of a gamble

lawred2 · 13-06-2017 03:48PM

reading quite a bit of probably partisan material predicting the arse falling out of Ether... Should I be looking to hedge over to BTC?

jester77 · 13-06-2017 04:07PM

lawred2 wrote: »

reading quite a bit of probably partisan material predicting the arse falling out of Ether... Should I be looking to hedge over to BTC?

hah, depending on where you source your material the same could be said for btc. Trying to find impartial material is very difficult to near impossible. Both sides are trying to influence the market.

Regarding btc, are you aware of the potential fork that might happen on Aug 1st? No one knows what the fallout could be. The exchanges will most probably freeze btc transactions around that time and BTC would most likely drop in value. What that means for other coins is hard to predict. Most will follow btc with a large drop, whether ETH follows or picks up the slack is anyone's guess. But the market will be nuts in August... not that it isn't already.

Right now ETH is increasing in value because of ICO's (these ICOs are hoarding their ETH) and people dumping BTC for ETH because of the potential fork. There are some big ICOs coming up soon, so the arse is not going to fall out of ETH for a while yet.

makeorbrake · 13-06-2017 04:25PM

jester77 wrote: »

Right now ETH is increasing in value because of ICO's (these ICOs are hoarding their ETH) and people dumping BTC for ETH because of the potential fork. There are some big ICOs coming up soon, so the arse is not going to fall out of ETH for a while yet.

What happens when these ICO's are found to be vapourware? I'm sticking with BTC - for the long hold - regardless of what temporary correction occurs.

jester77 · 13-06-2017 05:05PM

makeorbrake wrote: »

What happens when these ICO's are found to be vapourware? I'm sticking with BTC - for the long hold - regardless of what temporary correction occurs.

The investors lose a lot of money and devs walk away with fat bank accounts. And most of these ICO's will turn out that way. Bancor yesterday is a bit of a joke, they had a 1 hour cap, then they made it 3 during the ICO so they could pull in more money. And their code seems dodgy as hell from what I read plus they used the Ethereum founders name as advisor to promote their ICO. It has fail written all over it. This is what happens when there is no regulation, people don't even know what they are investing in, following the hype because they think it is a gravy train.

Mahogany Gaspipe · 13-06-2017 05:12PM

To be pedantic: you do not invest in BTC, ETH or any other currency crypto or otherwise.
This endevour is purely speculation.

makeorbrake · 13-06-2017 05:17PM

Mahogany Gaspipe wrote: »

To be pedantic: you do not invest in BTC, ETH or any other currency crypto or otherwise.
This endevour is purely speculation.

Indeed - but there's a world of difference between a long term hodl and cashing in and out on a whim - day by day - week by week.

Supercell · 13-06-2017 07:07PM

Even if you acknowledge that there is a certain tulip element to crypto investing, there are huge gains (and losses!!) to be potentially made if you keep your head screwed on and take it for what it is. Anyone that bought ETH a month ago and held it would have tripled their money. The ETH train may be all tulips, but you can make money on it!

makeorbrake · 13-06-2017 07:41PM

Supercell wrote: »

Even if you acknowledge that there is a certain tulip element to crypto investing, there are huge gains (and losses!!) to be potentially made if you keep your head screwed on and take it for what it is. Anyone that bought ETH a month ago and held it would have tripled their money. The ETH train may be all tulips, but you can make money on it!

I can't stand the idea that there are guys speculating in something they don't have any belief in. If you don't think that there are strong fundamentals for the existence of a crypto - or crypto-related application, then how can you justify putting $ into it? Can you not just fly to Vegas and throw yer chips on the table on red or black. Leave the unnecessary volatility out of the crypto market.

Thargor · 13-06-2017 08:12PM

makeorbrake wrote: »

I can't stand the idea that there are guys speculating in something they don't have any belief in. If you don't think that there are strong fundamentals for the existence of a crypto - or crypto-related application, then how can you justify putting $ into it? Can you not just fly to Vegas and throw yer chips on the table on red or black. Leave the unnecessary volatility out of the crypto market.

Lol if that was how the world worked a Bitcoin would still be worth a couple of cent.

Dohnjoe · 13-06-2017 08:29PM

makeorbrake wrote: »

Leave the unnecessary volatility out of the crypto market.

That market is part and parcel of unregulated decentralisation. It's a lawless free-for-all that anyone can join. Insider trading, cartels, price manipulation, fake wallets, hacks, greedy ICOs, you name it

The whole market is based on greed. It's Wall Street.. without the rules.

Ultimately everyone wants to make money, even the most noble principled crypto holders wince when the fiat value of their holdings goes down

There is great tech, exciting ideas and great visions behind - but let's not kid ourselves, the market itself is pure greed

makeorbrake · 13-06-2017 09:00PM

Thargor wrote: »

Lol if that was how the world worked a Bitcoin would still be worth a couple of cent.

I disagree. Would it have it's current valuation? No. Would it be worth a few cents? Certainly not...because despite what the detractors say, it's not tulipmania - it does have intrinsic value.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

That market is part and parcel of unregulated decentralisation. It's a lawless free-for-all that anyone can join. Insider trading, cartels, price manipulation, fake wallets, hacks, greedy ICOs, you name it
The whole market is based on greed. It's Wall Street.. without the rules.
Ultimately everyone wants to make money, even the most noble principled crypto holders wince when the fiat value of their holdings goes down
There is great tech, exciting ideas and great visions behind - but let's not kid ourselves, the market itself is pure greed

Nothing wrong with the free market, I'm not a communist - I've nothing against people making $ - and I know there's nothing to stop it. Doesn't mean that I have to like it ...as clearly it's causing volatility in the market.

cnocbui · 13-06-2017 09:14PM

makeorbrake wrote: »

I can't stand the idea that there are guys speculating in something they don't have any belief in. If you don't think that there are strong fundamentals for the existence of a crypto - or crypto-related application, then how can you justify putting $ into it? Can you not just fly to Vegas and throw yer chips on the table on red or black. Leave the unnecessary volatility out of the crypto market.

Easy, if you believe other people will place faith and value in a crypto at a later point in time and pay you more than you currently can acquire them for, then it's easy to justify putting money in to exploit the situation and make a profit.

makeorbrake · 13-06-2017 09:26PM

cnocbui wrote: »

Easy, if you believe other people will place faith and value in a crypto at a later point in time and pay you more than you currently can acquire them for, then it's easy to justify putting money in to exploit the situation and make a profit.

Sure, at a steadier rate (and yes, I understand I'm not going to change the nature of 'shorting' and all of that). However, I expect to derive a 'profit' on the basis that over time, it will end up proving itself and start making a valid contribution to an every expanding user base.

I'd like to put all my savings into BTC - if I could be sure that it would simply increase at a steady, modest rate year on year - but we are a long way from that scenario. In the meantime, I have FIAT wasting away on the sidelines - losing value every day of the week.

Supercell · 13-06-2017 09:31PM

makeorbrake wrote: »

I can't stand the idea that there are guys speculating in something they don't have any belief in. If you don't think that there are strong fundamentals for the existence of a crypto - or crypto-related application, then how can you justify putting $ into it? Can you not just fly to Vegas and throw yer chips on the table on red or black. Leave the unnecessary volatility out of the crypto market.

Really, you think everyone investing in the stockmarket is doing so for reasons other than making money?
Bottom line that's why you invest. I do think ETH stinks, it is tulipmania, do i give a fig?, nope, I want to make some money like anyone else and make no apologies for that, any stock investor that says that's otherwise is kidding themselves.

Supercell · 13-06-2017 09:34PM

Supercell wrote: »

Ripple and Stratis next whilst ETH takes a breather..IMHO STRAT looks cheap though XRP has being trying to break out last few days, worth keeping a close watch on, the ETH profit takers will invest in something else as always.

Strat 24 hours later..did ok out of ETH, should have taken my own advice..

Thargor · 13-06-2017 09:35PM

Supercell wrote: »

Really, you think everyone investing in the stockmarket is doing so for reasons other than making money?
Bottom line that's why you invest. I do think ETH stinks, it is tulipmania, do i give a fig?, nope, I want to make some money like anyone else and make no apologies for that, any stock investor that says that's otherwise is kidding themselves.

What do you think stinks about ETH? Not that Im worried I think its safe enough until BTCs issues are sorted in August anyway.

makeorbrake · 13-06-2017 09:35PM

Supercell wrote: »

Really, you think everyone investing in the stockmarket is doing so for reasons other than making money?
Bottom line that's why you invest. I do think ETH stinks, it is tulipmania, do i give a fig?, nope, I want to make some money like anyone else and make no apologies for that, any stock investor that says that's otherwise is kidding themselves.

I never said that it wasn't about making money. I just said that I don't like the shorting game - is all. I can dislike something can I not? ;-)

I'd rather see people back something based on it's merits - when you clearly don't see any merits in ...ETH for example. You want to turn a quick buck - good luck to you. That doesn't mean that I have to like it.

I don't get involved in stocks. Again, I understand enough that the same game gets played out there. Best of luck to you in turning a profit on it. Again, I don't like shorting or the idea of investing in something that you don't believe in or understand.

Isn't Warren Buffett of the same viewpoint? i.e. his mantra being I won't invest in it unless I believe in it/understand it.

Supercell · 13-06-2017 09:50PM

Thargor wrote: »

What do you think stinks about ETH? Not that Im worried I think its safe enough until BTCs issues are sorted in August anyway.

The ETH founders prostituting themselves to all and sundry and not focusing on their own product, reminds me of the monorail guy on the Simpsons. Too much fervent spin, hope I'm wrong, but the moment ETH starts tanking, I'm out.

XRP on the other hand has real potential but the guys that made it own so much of it they can totally manipulate the market (allegedly saying they will give 75% of it away..). XRP should be doing what ETH is doing but its not .

Stratus, Dash and Monero are worth watching (maybe have some quality to them), but they don't have the volumes of ETH so are crazy volatile.

Buying bitcoins

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