Sinn Fein, abstensionist policy, what's their logic?

LordSutch · 13-06-2017 02:50PM

If the DUP play this right, it could be the making of them in more ways than one. Firstly, I hope they modernise & ditch their anti gay stance, and secondly, I hope they deliver for all the people of Northern Ireland.

As I say, it could be the making of them as a 21st century progressive party > Unless of course they make a cock up in their "arrangement" with TM.

Re Sinn Fein;
Well having No voice at the table isn't a good start, so obviously Sinn Fein will lose out big time, whatever happens......

Jayop · 13-06-2017 03:43PM

Losing out is going well for them the last few years.

NIMAN · 13-06-2017 03:45PM

LordSutch wrote: »

If the DUP play this right, it could be the making of them in more ways than one. Firstly, I hope they modernise & ditch their anti gay stance, and secondly, I hope they deliver for all the people of Northern Ireland.

As I say, it could be the making of them as a 21st century progressive party > Unless of course they make a cock up in their "arrangement" with TM.

Re Sinn Fein;
Well having No voice at the table isn't a good start, so obviously Sinn Fein will lose out big time, whatever happens......

I can't see the DUP gaining much out of this....they will be more or less a silent partner, and it looks like there will be another election in the UK in the autumn (or before), according to most of the media experts.

blanch152 · 13-06-2017 03:52PM

Jayop wrote: »

Losing out is going well for them the last few years.

Yes, they certainly seem to be making electoral gains on the back of it. However, this latest result and the facilitation of a Conservative/DUP coalition may upset things a bit.

The other point is that SF may be winning but is Northern Ireland? Look at West Belfast and the sterling efforts of its MPs over the years to bring it out of misery and poverty.

blanch152 · 13-06-2017 03:53PM

NIMAN wrote: »

I can't see the DUP gaining much out of this....they will be more or less a silent partner, and it looks like there will be another election in the UK in the autumn (or before), according to most of the media experts.

Are they the same media experts who predicted that the FG/Independent Alliance government wouldn't last the summer (last summer that is)?

Nekarsulm · 13-06-2017 03:58PM

NIMAN wrote: »

I think you must have been reading Waterford Whispers.;)

No, not WWN, but it was something from The Scotsman, speculating that because the entire group of Sinn Sein MP's were heading to London today to visit "their Offices there" that they were possibly going to break tradition and neutralise the DUP/Con. pact.

Seth Brundle · 13-06-2017 04:25PM

SINN Fein’s seven MPs will fly into London today to take up their Commons offices – sparking Tory fears they may try to wreck the Prime Minister’s wafer thin majority.

The Sun can also reveal the Irish Republican party have refused to rule out taking their seats for the first time to vote through a Labour Queen’s Speech if Jeremy Corbyn offered them a referendum on unifying Ireland.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3786046/sinn-feins-mps-fly-to-london-to-take-up-their-westminster-offices-sparking-fears-they-will-wreck-plans-for-a-tory-dup-majority/

Edit: just to clarify, I've no idea if it's true given the source. I'm just relaying the message.

blanch152 · 13-06-2017 04:28PM

kbannon wrote: »

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3786046/sinn-feins-mps-fly-to-london-to-take-up-their-westminster-offices-sparking-fears-they-will-wreck-plans-for-a-tory-dup-majority/

Edit: just to clarify, I've no idea if it's true given the source. I'm just relaying the message.

If true, it would make Gerry Adams a liar once again. He was on radio several times in the immediate aftermath of the election saying they wouldn't be taking up their seats. Went quiet all of a sudden though.

Jayop · 13-06-2017 04:32PM

Calls for them to take their seats.... Calls them liars if they do....

Yep

StringerBell · 13-06-2017 04:48PM

Jayop wrote: »

Calls for them to take their seats.... Calls them liars if they do....

Yep

Both are mutually exclusive tbf

People have called for them to take their seats, true.

Adams and others have again reiterated they will not be taking their seats, not last year, now, in the aftermath of the election. If they do indeed then take their seats they will have made liars of themselves.

Don't see the issue?

Jayop · 13-06-2017 05:17PM

I agree that they would have lied if they had taken their seats, but I also see it as ironic that one of the people who has done the most mouthing on here saying they should take their seats takes the first opportunity to say he would be a liar if he did.

Anyway, the source here is the fecking Sun. It's more scaremongering from them and a weak attempt to link Corbyn and Labour with SF to take the heat of their tory masters.

Jayop · 13-06-2017 05:19PM

FFS did anyone even read the article??

It's based on this...

The party confirmed that its MPs will travel to Westminster for the House of Commons induction day for newcomers and will sign up for office space, register for staff allowances and expenses – despite their century-long policy of abstention in the UK Parliament.

They've always taken office space so there's literally no story here at all. Pure rubbish.

A Little Pony · 13-06-2017 07:22PM

Sinn Fein won't be taking seats.

Some one said DUP should become progressive. Maybe in time as they are doing so they are flirting with more moderation. Maybe they could look to contest elections in specific seats in Englnd if they want to expand and become more moderate that way.

Straight Talker · 13-06-2017 07:24PM

They won't take their seats in parliament, yet the shinners will have no problems with accepting their wages as sitting members of parliament.:D

FrancieBrady · 13-06-2017 08:18PM

Good and reasonable analysis of abstentionism policy here: http://eamonnmallie.com/2017/06/forming-executive-dup-difficult-now-sinn-fein-danny-morrison/

NIMAN · 13-06-2017 08:39PM

Jayop wrote: »

FFS did anyone even read the article??

It's based on this...

They've always taken office space so there's literally no story here at all. Pure rubbish.

And expenses!

NIMAN · 13-06-2017 08:40PM

Straight Talker wrote: »

They won't take their seats in parliament, yet the shinners will have no problems with accepting their wages as sitting members of parliament.:D

AFAIK they don't get their MP salary if they abstain.

I think they cam claim expenses and such like for assistants and offices, travel etc.

FrancieBrady · 13-06-2017 08:44PM

NIMAN wrote: »

And expenses!

Why wouldn't they if they are doing constituency work?

Jayop · 13-06-2017 08:49PM

NIMAN wrote: »

AFAIK they don't get their MP salary if they abstain.

I think they cam claim expenses and such like for assistants and offices, travel etc.

It's in their accounts exactly what they claim and they're entitled to it given they run offices over there.

A Little Pony · 13-06-2017 08:50PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

NIMAN wrote: »

And expenses!

Why wouldn't they if they are doing constituency work?

But they don't represent them on actually making change via voting in the HoC.

Jayop · 13-06-2017 08:52PM

Voting in the house would not represent their constituents nor would it make any difference. They didn't get elected to vote over there.

Seth Brundle · 13-06-2017 08:56PM

Jayop wrote: »

Voting in the house would not represent their constituents nor would it make any difference. They didn't get elected to vote over there.

Thats a cop out. By staying out of the HoC they have no say on taxation and other legislative aspects that affect everyone in NI. They are supposed to represent their constituents, not just those who voted for them.

Jayop · 13-06-2017 09:32PM

kbannon wrote: »

Thats a cop out. By staying out of the HoC they have no say on taxation and other legislative aspects that affect everyone in NI. They are supposed to represent their constituents, not just those who voted for them.

They'd have no say in any of that anyway so I don't know why it makes a difference other than a stick to beat them with.

In what way did the SDLP ever have a say on taxation issues? The few votes they had would never have made any difference on a single budget passed since they were first elected to Westminster.

blanch152 · 14-06-2017 10:30AM

kbannon wrote: »

Thats a cop out. By staying out of the HoC they have no say on taxation and other legislative aspects that affect everyone in NI. They are supposed to represent their constituents, not just those who voted for them.

A related point is that the failure to take up their seats in the House of Commons and represent all their constituents demonstrates that they have no serious interest in uniting the people of Northern Ireland and that they are more interested in preserving and promoting sectarian division.

Seth Brundle · 14-06-2017 10:38AM

Jayop wrote: »

They'd have no say in any of that anyway so I don't know why it makes a difference other than a stick to beat them with.

In what way did the SDLP ever have a say on taxation issues? The few votes they had would never have made any difference on a single budget passed since they were first elected to Westminster.

You're making excuses to justify their not representing their constituients within a parliament that directly affects them.

Hurling Hereford · 14-06-2017 01:03PM

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Lets not knock it as the Stormont set up is a hell of a lot better than the violence and murder that preceded it.

Here, here! Sadly, I think if the Troubles were to start all over again in the 6 counties, I doubt if too many people here in the Republic would 'lose too much sleep over it'. Like they did for the years of the Troubles in the 6 counties.

FrancieBrady · 14-06-2017 01:06PM

Hurling Hereford wrote: »

Here, here! Sadly, I think if the Troubles were to start all over again in the 6 counties, I doubt if too many people here in the Republic would 'lose too much sleep over it'. Like they did for the years of the Troubles in the 6 counties.

Yeh, the view was always easier to enjoy if you look the other way.
Shocking how callous people are being about the peace, May is dicing with a lot of dangers.

Hurling Hereford · 14-06-2017 01:08PM

ei.sdraob wrote: »

considering that Ireland and UK are both members of European Union with free travel of goods, trade and people and full democratic rights for all

i find this nationalistic quest for reunification rather amusing

surely we have bigger issues (on both sides of the current border) to worry about and spend energy on

anyways since Sinn Fein would still remain an insignificant party in a united Ireland as per calculations earlier, unite away

We'll have to wait and see. Who knows, you might get a 'little shock'

A Little Pony · 14-06-2017 01:13PM

I must admit I do laugh at the veil threats of violence. Who is going to bring the war back in Ulster? Absolutely no excuse for it and if Sinn Fein want to influence and represent nationalist voters then get involved by going to Westminster.

Hurling Hereford · 14-06-2017 01:16PM

dlofnep wrote: »

That's your democratic right. You're entitled to vote for who you want to vote for.

I agree with you. Some people forget we live in a Democracy in this country of ours. Our country may not be perfect, but thankfully it is a Democracy

Sinn Fein, abstensionist policy, what's their logic?

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