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2017 UK General Election - 8th June

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Comments

  • #1952
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,833 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    If MayBot said the previous majority was unstable
    (which was the whole reason for calling the election)

    Then this arrangement surely cannot be considered more stable.

    Therefore by her own words, this has to be unstable however she spins it.


  • #1953
    Jamiekelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭Jamiekelly


    Foster : You know that, uhmm, thing with the investigation about the, uhmm, money.
    May : Say no more.
    Foster: Did we just become best friends?
    May : We can always be more than that..
    Foster : ......
    May : Have you ever walked through a wheat field with a friend on a hot summers day?
    Foster : No, but we need more money to keep our wheat fields from disappearing....
    May : What a tragedy that would be, say no more, one will do as one must to save such beautiful land.


  • #1954
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,276 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Can't see it being a coalition. DUP have little gain from that. More likely confidence-and-supply based on certain pre-conditions.


  • #1955
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,833 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Confidence and Supply is what is being mooted on Sky News.


  • #1956
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,061 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Jep Gambardella wrote: »
    Can't see it being a coalition. DUP have little gain from that. More likely confidence-and-supply based on certain pre-conditions.

    What is the difference?


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  • #1957
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,387 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    bilston wrote: »
    For what it's worth I think SF should take their seats, obviously something would have to agreed regarding the oath but really given the make up of this parliament they could have real influence, and I say that as a supporter of the Union in NI (albeit an Alliance voter).

    If they were going to take their seats they would need to have an Ard Fheis. That would also need to happen before the election not after it so people would have the chance to vote accordingly.


  • #1958
    bilston
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,008 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    First Up wrote: »
    The DUP position is much more important. If, as reported they are saying no special status for NI, then we are looking at a border.

    As far as I'm aware the DUP don't want a hard border. I don't think anyone whether Unionist, Nationalist, Southern Irish, British, European (whatever you class yourself as) wants a hard border.

    The more I think about it the harder it is to see what sort of Brexit will happen now. Remember most Tory MPs were Remainers, they can now cause as much trouble as the 1922 committee on Brexit if they think May (or whoever the PM is) are going to hard.

    This is the worst possible outcome of the U.K. They needed either a commanding Tory victory or a reset as a result of a Progressive alliance in government, instead they get a weakened Tory PM backed by a political party whose attitudes belong in the 18th century.


  • #1959
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,753 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Jep Gambardella wrote: »
    Can't see it being a coalition. DUP have little gain from that. More likely confidence-and-supply based on certain pre-conditions.

    Walks, talks and quacks like a duck etc


  • #1960
    bilston
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,008 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Jayop wrote: »
    If they were going to take their seats they would need to have an Ard Fheis. That would also need to happen before the election not after it so people would have the chance to vote accordingly.

    Which is fair enough, but I'm not convinced people vote for SF in such large numbers because they abstain. I suspect that is pretty far down people's list of priorities when it comes to them voting SF. But you are right, I assume it was in SF's manifesto that they would be abstaining so they can't very well back track on that 24 hours after the election.


  • #1961
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Jep Gambardella wrote: »
    Can't see it being a coalition. DUP have little gain from that. More likely confidence-and-supply based on certain pre-conditions.

    Yeah, confidence and supply is all.


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  • #1962
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,833 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Just had a look at DUP's track record and some of their policies.

    Christ, that's a real throwback.


  • #1963
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,753 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    devnull wrote: »
    Just had a look at DUP's track record and some of their policies.

    Christ, that's a real throwback.

    Throwback to when exactly?

    Feudal times?


  • #1964
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,833 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    MayBot to reshuffle cabinet this afternoon


  • #1965
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Walks, talks and quacks like a duck etc

    Yes, just as we are governed here by a FG-FF coalition, with some Independents paid to let on they are important.


  • #1966
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,673 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    How do people explain voters moving from a party who take their seats to a party with an abstentionist policy.
    So much so, that the party who take seats got completely wiped out?


  • #1967
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    devnull wrote: »
    If MayBot said the previous majority was unstable
    (which was the whole reason for calling the election)

    It would only take 5-6 people in her own party to torpedo the whole thing. She needs to go, for there to be any semblance of stability.

    Looks like she is going to try and hang on a Prime Minister. If she digs in, I reckon another election.

    The entire thing is really a disaster. Utterly stupid for any election be called after article 50. The UK is at a Trump level of disaster. It funny as all of this pain is completely self inflicted. They did this to themselves for no good reasons at all. A bunch of far right nutters sold them magic beans, and they have gotten themselves into a right state. It would funny, if wasn't so bloody tragic.


  • #1968
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    blanch152 wrote: »
    SF are at a crossroads. They are not in government in Belfast or Dublin, they are not even in parliament in London. They have had opportunities in the last year to achieve progress in all three places - talk about a coalition in Dublin, join the Assembly while letting the inquiry take its course in Belfast and block a hard Brexit in London - yet they have sat on their hands. That is the message Micheal Martin was putting out there this morning and it does raise the question as to what is the point of voting for SF when they don't achieve anything for you, even when it is possible for them to make a difference.

    They are not. After having a very successful election despite the issues you have raised here. They have run on an abstentionist ticket for years and yet people are continuing to vote for them in NI. Why is this? Micheal Martin's 'message' isnt getting through, is it? SF's goal is an Ireland centric governing policy. They are not going to participate in a London based parliamentary body that dilutes this approach.


  • #1969
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    bilston wrote: »
    As far as I'm aware the DUP don't want a hard border. I don't think anyone whether Unionist, Nationalist, Southern Irish, British, European (whatever you class yourself as) wants a hard border.

    The more I think about it the harder it is to see what sort of Brexit will happen now. Remember most Tory MPs were Remainers, they can now cause as much trouble as the 1922 committee on Brexit if they think May (or whoever the PM is) are going to hard.

    This is the worst possible outcome of the U.K. They needed either a commanding Tory victory or a reset as a result of a Progressive alliance in government, instead they get a weakened Tory PM backed by a political party whose attitudes belong in the 18th century.
    They say they don't. However they're also insisting completely on no special status for NI which basically makes a hard border far more likely.


  • #1970
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Right2Write wrote: »
    Disastrous election for Northern Ireland and SF in particular, despite them increasing their seats:
    - the moderate nationalist and unionist vote has been seriously eroded
    - the DUP have the whiphand
    - SF approach of hoping Brexit will force Scottish Ind seriously damaged with SNP taking a battering
    - SF hoped for border poll result there to be seen - 11/7 sectarian headcount to stay in the union.
    - Joint administration with DUP now very unlikely - SF would have to swallow a LOT of pride
    - Direct rule with the prospect of the DUP having a significant input

    What does Gerry say on the morning news - "it's up to the Taoiseach to put us first etc" or words to that effect. Well news for you Gerry, go sort out your own problems and take some responsibility for your decisions and mandate.

    lol

    "Disaster for Sinn Fein as they sweep nationalist vote and steal unionist seat"

    Are you Mick Fealty? Cos you sound like Mick Fealty


  • #1971
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,833 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    wes wrote: »
    It would only take 5-6 people in her own party to torpedo the whole thing. She needs to go, for there to be any semblance of stability.

    Looks like she is going to try and hang on a Prime Minister. If she digs in, I reckon another election.

    The entire thing is really a disaster. Utterly stupid for any election be called after article 50. The UK is at a Trump level of disaster. It funny as all of this pain is completely self inflicted. They did this to themselves for no good reasons at all. A bunch of far right nutters sold them magic beans, and they have gotten themselves into a right state. It would funny, if wasn't so bloody tragic.

    She just comes across as even more disconnected from the people. She's determined to hang on to power no matter what at any cost.

    Proves what I thought all alone, she is not a very nice person and cannot be trusted and I feel sorry for the Brits who have to deal with someone who is not fit to hold office and will mislead anyone if it helps her.


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  • #1972
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    wes wrote: »
    It would only take 5-6 people in her own party to torpedo the whole thing. She needs to go, for there to be any semblance of stability.

    The only thing that could deliver a semblance of stability in terms of votes would be a unity government with labour . Which of course will never happen. Lots of up coming votes where you could easily see 20 + defections so even a deal with the SNP would struggle for numbers


  • #1973
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,387 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    They are not. After having a very successful election despite the issues you have raised here. They have run on an abstentionist ticket for years and yet people are continuing to vote for them in NI. Why is this? Micheal Martin's 'message' isnt getting through, is it? SF's goal is an Ireland centric governing policy. They are not going to participate in a London based parliamentary body that dilutes this approach.

    I think it's time that FF started to run in the north as a SF alternative. They're great at throwing their oar in and like Martin this morning complaining about SF not taking their seats to try to gain cheap political points in the South. A so called Republican party not running in the north is a disgrace.

    Sdlp are gone and will never recover imo. There was talk years ago about an amalgamation with FF and now is the time unless Martin is happy to be a 'hurler in the ditch' (isn't that the correct term here ffg'ers?).


  • #1974
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,387 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    Bambi wrote: »
    lol

    "Disaster for Sinn Fein as they sweep nationalist vote and steal unionist seat"

    Are you Mick Fealty? Cos you sound like Mick Fealty

    Incredible logic on display as usual.


  • #1975
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Jayop wrote: »
    I think it's time that FF started to run in the north as a SF alternative. They're great at throwing their oar in and like Martin this morning complaining about SF not taking their seats to try to gain cheap political points in the South. A so called Republican party not running in the north is a disgrace.

    Sdlp are gone and will never recover imo. There was talk years ago about an amalgamation with FF and now is the time unless Martin is happy to be a 'hurler in the ditch' (isn't that the correct term here ffg'ers?).
    If they were stupid enough to do that and had any impact it would cost them massively down here.


  • #1976
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,387 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    If they were stupid enough to do that and had any impact it would cost them massively down here.

    How so? SF made gains I'm the north and were repaid by gains in the South. If FF made gains in the north the same would happen for them.

    Only hardcore FG supporters are so pro partition that they would be put off by that and those votes are never in play for FF.

    Now if as is more likely they did that and floundered badly in the north that could have a negative effect on them in the South.


  • #1977
    Chardee MacDennis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,228 ✭✭✭Chardee MacDennis


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    What is the difference?

    In a parliamentary democracy based on the Westminster system, confidence and supply are required for a government to hold power. A confidence and supply agreement is an agreement that a party or independent member of parliament will support the government in motions of confidence and appropriation (supply) votes by voting in favour or abstaining, while retaining the right to otherwise vote on conscience.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_and_supply


  • #1978
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,276 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    FF have already said they were going to start running candidates in Northern Ireland from 2019 onwards.


  • #1979
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    They are not.

    Well the point needs to come at some stage where they need to mature and no longer be the hurlers in the ditch. What's their point in getting seats in the republic or Westminster (I know the history) if they will never partake in government? They'll be a long time waiting for a majority anywhere.


  • #1980
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Jayop wrote: »

    Only hardcore FG supporters are so pro partition that they would be put off by that and those votes are never in play for FF..

    Might be the way you phrased it, are you saying the only people not wanting a 32 county country at the moment are hardcore FG supporters?


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  • #1981
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Jayop wrote: »
    How so? SF made gains I'm the north and were repaid by gains in the South. If FF made gains in the north the same would happen for them.

    Only hardcore FG supporters are so pro partition that they would be put off by that and those votes are never in play for FF.

    Now if as is more likely they did that and floundered badly in the north that could have a negative effect on them in the South.
    FF wouldn't win a seat for a long time, all they could hope to achieve would be to undermine SF's vote and give the DUP a bigger majority. I can't see people down here looking favorably upon that.


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