Questions from a passenger!!

IE 222 · 05-06-2017 05:15PM

tabbey wrote: »

Absolutely, a clockface timetable is essential for suburban and ideally other passenger services.

However this does not mean we should provide a good service to inner suburban stations at the expense of those people travelling a bit further.

The majority of passengers south east of the city, are travelling to or from Blackrock, DunLaoghaire and Bray.

Somebody going from Tara Street to Blackrock will be very happy with an all stopper every 15 minutes,even if he/she has to stand, and delighted with it every 10 mins.

The passenger heading to DunLaoghaire or further will not be happy standing for this distance.
The Bray or Greystones resident is entitled to a timetable and rolling stock appropriate to such a distance, that is a faster journey time and coaching with a higher seating/standing ratio.
The use of Jap (85/8600) on the Greystones service is oppressive on the southbound journey.In the morning peak, citybound passengers will be standing from Bray. LHB sets offer more seats per 8 car set, they would be even better if restored to full 72 seats per car.
Some years after introduction of DART services, there was a non stop between Pearse and Bray on loco hauled Rosslare services taking 20 minutes. Such timings on a regular basis, even half hourly, coupled with comfortable coaches, would be a catalyst to substantial growth in numbers using rail from Bray and Greystones.

Ideally, substantial four tracking is needed to provide a service which meets the needs of both inner suburban and outer passengers. In the absence of this, it is necessary to think outside the box. It is also necessary to use the infrastructure in an efficient way, practising traditional methods of railway working, that is, dispatching fast trains ahead of all stoppers, rather than the bizarre opposite that has become acceptable on Irish Rail.

A good timetable on the Greystones- Malahide corridor would be a halfhourly or 20 minute cycle, with fast trains leaving Pearse southbound, at xx15 and xx45,each followed by all stoppers to Bray at xx17 and xx47 (or perhaps xx18 and xx48), then an all stopper to Dun Laoghaire at xx32 and xx02. This would allow the fast train to have an unchecked run to it's first stop at DunLaoghaire in 8 minutes.

If Irish Rail, NTA and government cannot offer such a service, then consideration should be given to closing some of the intermediate stations, which are slowing down the service to the majority.

A quality bus corridor on the Merrion Rd + Rock Rd route, with extra buses on route 4 & 7, could take up the slack.

Another problem that needs to be addressed is the undisciplined working of DART trains. Most of them run between 1 and 2 minutes late, their drivers making no effort to recover lost time, making extended stops at intermediate stations. It would seem many are unaware of the actual time. An accurate clock, such as found in all Swiss or Dutch stations should help to deal with this, especially if accompanied with a carrot and stick approach to punctuality.

Darts will always need standing room removing some seats is necessary.

Another fact people seem to miss about the Darts taking longer is the fact they are busier now. More people are getting on and off trains at each station while the number of doors hasn't increased much. Trains are also longer now so drivers need to express more caution with door closing. A lot stations have curves meaning drivers can't see back along the whole train. Unfortunately this is something that will have to be accepted and find other ways of speeding up journey times.

Closing one or two stations is something that should be looked at. Seapoint is very close to other stations especially Seapoint. People using this station would just as quick getting to Blackrock or Monkstown.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 05-06-2017 05:31PM

IE 222 wrote: »

Closing one or two stations is something that should be looked at. Seapoint is very close to other stations especially Seapoint. People using this station would just as quick getting to Blackrock or Monkstown.

Monkstown and Seapoint are both within a 10 minute walk from each other and an additional station (dun laoghaire or black rock respectively). Of the two Monkstown is a superior station imo due to parking facilities.

Not sure how much time removing the station would save though. A one or two minute time saving on the train's running time would probably not be worth it.

Fred Swanson · 05-06-2017 05:37PM

This post has been deleted.

IE 222 · 05-06-2017 05:59PM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Monkstown and Seapoint are both within a 10 minute walk from each other and an additional station (dun laoghaire or black rock respectively). Of the two Monkstown is a superior station imo due to parking facilities.

Not sure how much time removing the station would save though. A one or two minute time saving on the train's running time would probably not be worth it.

They are a max 5 min walk. The catchment area of seapoint is the exact same bar about 30 households of Monkstown or Blackrock.
I wouldn't close Monkstown at all. Not sure about Seapoint loadings but I'd presume they are very small. I also belive the platform areas to unsafe as they are very narrow in places.

tabbey · 06-06-2017 10:06PM

Victor wrote: »

But all the people who got off between Pearse and Monkstown will have freed up seats.

A few of them. Most will have been standing. In the evening peak, there will be people standing well beyond Dun Laoghaire, especially on the Jap EMUs.

patrickbrophy18 · 12-06-2017 12:32AM

XPS_Zero wrote: »

The Commuter trains used to stop at more DART stations than they do today, maybe because in the early 2000s the govt ordered a huge number of new DARTs and upgraded the existing ones a few years later. When I was in primary school I remember that a Commuter train would stop at Shankill and Dalkey early enough in the morning but none of them do that now, they used to also stop at Dalkey, again none of them do now.

You will find some commuters stop at Blackrock (like the Maynooth Commuters coming from Bray (not all Commuters come from town, most do but some start in Bray or stop there along the way and go to Maynooth or the Dundalk direction) ) but most only stop at Bray, Dun Laoghaire, the 4 city center stations and maybe Howth Junction and Malahide.

Between roughly 2005 and 2010, there were up to 5 Commuter trains which made stops at Dalkey from Monday to Saturday. 7 years on and I still remember. So, here is an exact breakdown of when they stopped at Dalkey:

08:00 - Connolly to Rosslare (Monday to Saturday)
09:07 - Bray to Balbriggan (Monday to Friday) [and also called at Shankill]
10:36 - Bray to Drogheda (Monday to Saturday) [and also called at Shankill]
15:36 - Gorey to Maynooth (Monday to Saturday)
17:43 - Bray to Longford (Monday to Friday*)
*On a Saturday, this train operated to Mullingar.

You probably boarded one of the two trains in bold.

Such a pity that they were yanked. However, it was probably tied in with the introduction of the 15 minutely DART frequency.

Gulfstream757 · 13-07-2017 12:14PM

Another question if anyone can help!!

Apologies as I'm sure my ignorance will be very clear!

I see that commuter trains are lead by driver cars?? No idea if that is the right name what I mean is that the driver is in a cab with passengers in the same carriage so to speak behind.

Then on the enterprise there is a loco? Again sorry if wrong term at one end and a seemingly different type of loco at the other end, my question is why the difference pulling on each end?

Thanks and I hope that makes some kind of sense to you!

end of the road · 13-07-2017 02:21PM

Gulfstream757 wrote: »

Another question if anyone can help!!

Apologies as I'm sure my ignorance will be very clear!

I see that commuter trains are lead by driver cars?? No idea if that is the right name what I mean is that the driver is in a cab with passengers in the same carriage so to speak behind.

Then on the enterprise there is a loco? Again sorry if wrong term at one end and a seemingly different type of loco at the other end, my question is why the difference pulling on each end?

Thanks and I hope that makes some kind of sense to you!

basically, the vast majority of services in the country are operated by multiple units. for the dart, they are electric multiple units, and for the rest, diesel multiple units, where the engines are under the floor of the carrige rather then being up front separately like would be the case for a locomotive hauled train, which operates on the belfast service and much of the cork services. for the units, the driver will be in a cab at the front of the train as you say, with the passengers behind. the cab is part of the unit set.
as for the locomotive hauled sets, they have a loco at 1 end and a driving car at the other. the driving car allows the loco to be driven from the other end of the train, and i believe in the case of the cork hauled sets provides ppower to the train as well. the belfast hauled sets have a generator van to provide power, which came from the mark 3 sets that operated most long distance services out of heuston station. the loco can be removed and swapped out for another loco when needed, or it can go and operate other duties.

tabbey · 13-07-2017 02:33PM

Gulfstream757 wrote: »

Another question if anyone can help!!

Apologies as I'm sure my ignorance will be very clear!

I see that commuter trains are lead by driver cars?? No idea if that is the right name what I mean is that the driver is in a cab with passengers in the same carriage so to speak behind.

Then on the enterprise there is a loco? Again sorry if wrong term at one end and a seemingly different type of loco at the other end, my question is why the difference pulling on each end?

Thanks and I hope that makes some kind of sense to you!

The Enterprise trains have a diesel locomotive at the Belfast end of the train and a driving trailer (aka a control car) at the Dublin end.
The driver sits in the control car heading south, and in the cab of the locomotive going north.
In both directions the power is fom the locomotive, pushing southwards, pulling northbound.
There is also an Electric Generating Van (EGV) between the locomotive and the passenger coaches. This provides power for lighting and air conditioning, cooking etc.
This type of train is called a push-pull train. There are also push-pull trains running between Dublin and Cork, their auxiliary generators are in the control car, and they are of different design and manufacture, but are powered by the same locomotives.

In the case of railcars, also known as diesel multiple units (DMU) or electric multiple units (EMU), power is distributed among the vehicles.
The present fleet of diesel railcars all have an engine under each car, this is true of both Irish Rail / Iarnrod Eireann and Northern Ireland Railways.
The EMUs in Dublin (DART) have electric motors on every second vehicle.

In all cases, diesel engines or electric motors are remotely controlled by the driver sitting in the front cab.

Ce he sin · 13-07-2017 03:33PM

Gulfstream757 wrote: »

Another question if anyone can help!!

Then on the enterprise there is a loco? Again sorry if wrong term at one end and a seemingly different type of loco at the other end, my question is why the difference pulling on each end?

Thanks and I hope that makes some kind of sense to you!

As has been explained above, the Cork-Dublin and Dublin-Belfast trains have a locomotive at one end and a driving car at the other, basically a kind of dummy loco which enables the train to be driven from either end. The reason they do this is that you would otherwise have to move the loco from one end to the other at each terminus, a time consuming operation as you need a second line running parallel, or alternatively you use two locos. The first hauls the train in to the terminus and is uncoupled (disconnected). A second loco then comes up from behind, couples up to the train and hauls it back. Afterwards the first loco drives out and parks on a siding waiting for the next train to arrive. Also time consuming and unless you have a busy station with a lot of coming and going you're going to have an expensive loco and an expensive driver hanging around.
In other countries the driving car is used to carry passengers, something we don't do here.

tabbey · 13-07-2017 03:54PM

Ce he sin wrote: »

In other countries the driving car is used to carry passengers, something we don't do here.

That is not entirely correct.

The Enterprise trains have 30 or 36 first class seats as well as a guard's compartment.

On the Dublin - Cork trains you are correct.

Ce he sin · 13-07-2017 10:37PM

tabbey wrote: »

That is not entirely correct.

The Enterprise trains have 30 or 36 first class seats as well as a guard's compartment.

On the Dublin - Cork trains you are correct.

Easily known I haven't actually been on the Enterprise!

goingnowhere · 14-07-2017 09:46AM

The Enterprise drags a separate generator van around with it, the Dublin Cork train driving coach has the generator included so its pretty much the same.

Historically first class demand Dublin Belfast has been good hence the 80 odd seats vs 48 on the Dublin Cork. A suggestion to reconfigure the driving trailer to standard seating and swap the train around during the Enterprise refurbishment got shot down by Translink

XPS_Zero · 14-07-2017 05:17PM

goingnowhere wrote: »

The Enterprise drags a separate generator van around with it, the Dublin Cork train driving coach has the generator included so its pretty much the same.

Historically first class demand Dublin Belfast has been good hence the 80 odd seats vs 48 on the Dublin Cork. A suggestion to reconfigure the driving trailer to standard seating and swap the train around during the Enterprise refurbishment got shot down by Translink

Often times there won't be more than 4 people in carriage A on the Enterprise (the smaller of the first class carriages), however there are times when it fills up but for 2/3 seats, same with carriage B, so demand for first class IS there. Tourists, business travelers, consultants and ordinary Irish people like me who just want to get away from the noise (and sometimes drunks ) in standard class.

I started using it when I was seriously ill and had to go north for a medication that is not yet approved here. I have to go up weekly or fortnightly to get it and there is just more peace and quiet even on the occasions where it is full up.

So I can understand why Translink wanted to keep it as it is. It looks very well post-refurbishment and makes a very long journey so much more comfortable. Even though I know they don't cost them much I also love the little bits like the papers (especially when they have the Times and Indo some services only have NI papers which is irritating as nothing of interest worth reading about ever happens in NI, though I guess we should be grateful for that now) , the glass of OJ, the hot towel, the actual meals from a nice menu brought to your seat instead of a trolley. Worth it if you're going the full distance IMO

adam240610 · 15-07-2017 07:31PM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Why can't there be fast and semi fast services? Why does every train has to stop at every station?

There's only one track each direction they can't over take eachother. The trains that stop at less stations just travel at a slower speed. Almost the same speed as darts maybe slightly faster

XPS_Zero · 17-07-2017 08:38PM

adam240610 wrote: »

There's only one track each direction they can't over take eachother. The trains that stop at less stations just travel at a slower speed. Almost the same speed as darts maybe slightly faster

...and a shocking amount of our rail network is SINGLE track with passing loops you've to slow down for.

adam240610 · 18-07-2017 09:11AM

XPS_Zero wrote: »

...and a shocking amount of our rail network is SINGLE track with passing loops you've to slow down for.

I was thinking of the dart line oops.

LXFlyer · 18-07-2017 10:54AM

adam240610 wrote: »

I was thinking of the dart line oops.

That's what the poster to whom you originally replied to was discussing too.

So no need for "oops"!

LXFlyer · 18-07-2017 11:38AM

XPS_Zero wrote: »

...and a shocking amount of our rail network is SINGLE track with passing loops you've to slow down for.

Most of them are at existing stations where trains need to stop at in any case.

Being honest about it, realistically where redoubling either through the use of extended dynamic loops or full redoubling would be practical are:

1) Portarlington - Athlone (probably two extended dynamic loops)
2) Athenry - Galway
3) Killonan Junction - Limerick Junction
4) Maynooth - Enfield

I can't really see a justification for more than that.

Phil.x · 24-07-2017 02:24PM

Why is there only one train per hour on the maynooth line and none on the m3 from 8:15pm.
Where's as there's darts every few minutes.

If the service isn't provided first then demand will never be there as people make alternative travel arrangements.

end of the road · 24-07-2017 07:59PM

Phil.x wrote: »

Why is there only one train per hour on the maynooth line and none on the m3 from 8:15pm.
Where's as there's darts every few minutes.

If the service isn't provided first then demand will never be there as people make alternative travel arrangements.

i don't know about m3 parkway but there would certainly be demand for more maynooth services after that time right up until the end of service.

Losty Dublin · 24-07-2017 08:43PM

Phil.x wrote: »

Why is there only one train per hour on the maynooth line and none on the m3 from 8:15pm.
Where's as there's darts every few minutes.

M3 Parkway has connecting trains off all evening Maynooth line trains.

L1011 · 25-07-2017 07:59AM

Losty Dublin wrote: »

M3 Parkway has connecting trains off all evening Maynooth line trains.

Which are still one per hour and usually very full.

Evening capacity on all services is insufficient, weekend evenings particularly so

goingnowhere · 25-07-2017 08:02AM

Capacity isn't the issue, frequency is

end of the road · 25-07-2017 08:17AM

goingnowhere wrote: »

Capacity isn't the issue, frequency is

both are an issue.

LXFlyer · 25-07-2017 08:41AM

Phil.x wrote: »

Why is there only one train per hour on the maynooth line and none on the m3 from 8:15pm.
Where's as there's darts every few minutes.

If the service isn't provided first then demand will never be there as people make alternative travel arrangements.

L1011 wrote: »

Which are still one per hour and usually very full.

Evening capacity on all services is insufficient, weekend evenings particularly so

goingnowhere wrote: »

Capacity isn't the issue, frequency is

I suspect that this will change when the next timetable change takes place (presumably in December).

As the NTA receives more funding from government they are increasing frequency of PSO services and this is a no-brainer.

There needs to be a half-hourly off-peak service on both the Western and Northern lines and a full recast of Sunday schedules that reflects the demand (more trains during the afternoon and late evening).

L1011 · 25-07-2017 08:51AM

goingnowhere wrote: »

Capacity isn't the issue, frequency is

Capacity is a function of frequency here - they operate 4 car units so there's no way to split to provide the same capacity over a higher frequency.

Its possible to provide more capacity on the same frequency of course

Hilly Bill · 25-07-2017 10:58AM

Phil.x wrote: »

Why is there only one train per hour on the maynooth line and none on the m3 from 8:15pm.
Where's as there's darts every few minutes.

If the service isn't provided first then demand will never be there as people make alternative travel arrangements.

It's not as if those hourly services are packed.

L1011 · 25-07-2017 12:15PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

It's not as if those hourly services are packed.

They frequently are.

The massive increase in loads on the 67 since it went 30 mins also shows the level of potential that simply won't bother using unpredictable / low frequency services and will when they improve

LXFlyer · 25-07-2017 12:18PM

L1011 wrote: »

They frequently are.

The massive increase in loads on the 67 since it went 30 mins also shows the level of potential that simply won't bother using unpredictable / low frequency services and will when they improve

Are we talking crush loading or just some people standing?

Questions from a passenger!!

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