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Woman killed by two bull mastiffs in Galway

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Comments

  • #302
    enfant terrible
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,774 ✭✭✭enfant terrible


    notjustsweet wrote: »
    Perhaps that's the case.
    Very few dogs wouldn't react to someone walking into their house when the owner wasn't home though, a highly territorial bullmastiff seems even more likely to react.

    I don't know what my dogs would do but none of my friends would chance it!
    Do you think your would let someone in?

    His dog is a sweetheart and would lick you to death he is so well trained.


  • #303
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,127 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    notjustsweet wrote: »
    Perhaps that's the case.
    Very few dogs wouldn't react to someone walking into their house when the owner wasn't home though, a highly territorial bullmastiff seems even more likely to react.

    I don't know what my dogs would do but none of my friends would chance it!
    Do you think yours would let someone in?

    Oh they would. They would either be happy to see someone or afraid & stressed. There would be a reaction & it would depend on how they were trained to perceive strangers. My girl would bark & sound aggressive but she would welcome the intruder.

    If you genuinely don't know then you shouldn't have a dog


  • #304
    deadlybuzzman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭deadlybuzzman


    If people want dog bans then it has to be done logically.
    Pitbulls are the devil dog of the decade, previously it was German shepherds, rottweilers, dobermans, go back far enough it was weimaraners.
    If a breed suddenly vanished then scumbags demand for nasty dogs would be replaced by another breed and then another and then another.
    In any dog litter temperaments vary wildly, Diana Jessup, a breeder and trainer of dogs (including for the police) gave the example of having a litter of 8 pitbull pups that she reared that went from one pup that was highly dog aggressive to one that wouldn't even defend itself if attacked.
    So the particular breed being the primary problem doesn't hold up, it's the breeding.
    Let me pick the founding stock and I'd make killer dogs out of labs in 3 generations.
    Indeed a boarding Kennel owner I go to told me the most dangerous dog he's had in 20 years was a lab, and he has restricted breeds in every week


  • #305
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,127 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    deadlybuzzman wrote: »
    If people want dog bans then it has to be done logically.
    Pitbulls are the devil dog of the decade, previously it was German shepherds, rottweilers, dobermans, go back far enough it was weimaraners.
    If a breed suddenly vanished then scumbags demand for nasty dogs would be replaced by another breed and then another and then another.
    In any dog litter temperaments vary wildly, Diana Jessup, a breeder and trainer of dogs (including for the police) gave the example of having a litter of 8 pitbull pups that she reared that went from one pup that was highly dog aggressive to one that wouldn't even defend itself if attacked.
    So the particular breed being the primary problem doesn't hold up, it's the breeding.
    Let me pick the founding stock and I'd make killer dogs out of labs in 3 generations.
    Indeed a boarding Kennel owner I go to told me the most dangerous dog he's had in 20 years was a lab, and he has restricted breeds in every week

    I know a tricky Black Labrador that is very nervous & defensive. He is an accident waiting to happen & guess what, he's allowed to roam.


  • #306
    Tazzimus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,945 ✭✭✭Tazzimus


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    All well and good .......... until your dog bites a kids head off.

    I actually don't even know where to begin with that..

    @enfant terrible
    Do you not believe that kind of behaviour is down to how the dog was raised?

    @notsosweet
    Dogs are territorial, they protect what they believe to be their space or their pack(the family). That's generally true of all dogs, my aunties terrier goes mental barking if anyone he doesn't know comes near the house. Runs a mile if you come near him mind.


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  • #307
    enfant terrible
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,774 ✭✭✭enfant terrible


    deadlybuzzman wrote: »
    If people want dog bans then it has to be done logically.
    Pitbulls are the devil dog of the decade, previously it was German shepherds, rottweilers, dobermans, go back far enough it was weimaraners.
    If a breed suddenly vanished then scumbags demand for nasty dogs would be replaced by another breed and then another and then another.
    In any dog litter temperaments vary wildly, Diana Jessup, a breeder and trainer of dogs (including for the police) gave the example of having a litter of 8 pitbull pups that she reared that went from one pup that was highly dog aggressive to one that wouldn't even defend itself if attacked.
    So the particular breed being the primary problem doesn't hold up, it's the breeding.
    Let me pick the founding stock and I'd make killer dogs out of labs in 3 generations.
    Indeed a boarding Kennel owner I go to told me the most dangerous dog he's had in 20 years was a lab, and he has restricted breeds in every week

    Maybe do a bit of research and see how the bans are reducing fatalities where they are implemented before spreading misinformation.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103714144&postcount=246


  • #308
    deadlybuzzman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭deadlybuzzman


    Incidentally Diane Jessup breed pitbulls for 35 years and also worked in animal control.
    She said the pitbulls she encountered early on in the career in animal control were dog aggressive, towards the end of her career the were much more human aggressive.
    Again that shows its something that can be put into any breed so by that logic there's an argument to ban all medium or large dogs


  • #309
    njs030
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,030 ✭✭✭njs030


    Discodog wrote: »
    Oh they would. They would either be happy to see someone or afraid & stressed. There would be a reaction & it would depend on how they were trained to perceive strangers. My girl would bark & sound aggressive but she would welcome the intruder.

    If you genuinely don't know then you shouldn't have a dog

    That's a ridiculous statement. I know dogs extremely well having worked with all breeds for years.
    Anyone who thinks they know everything about dogs knows nothing at all.
    They aren't human, they don't react like us or think like us.


  • #310
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,127 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    notjustsweet wrote: »
    That's a ridiculous statement. I know dogs extremely well having worked with all breeds for years.
    Anyone who thinks they know everything about dogs knows nothing at all.
    They aren't human, they don't react like us or think like us.

    Are you a trainer ?

    Then you would know that you can acclimatise, train & assess how your dog will react to intruders & strangers. I know because I have tried it, several times, because I want to know that anyone can enter my house in an emergency.

    The whole purpose is to make them overcome any natural fear with positive, reward training.

    You will also know that they can read our emotions & body language better than any other animal. They can understand us far better than most understand them


  • #311
    njs030
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,030 ✭✭✭njs030


    Discodog wrote: »
    Are you a trainer ?

    Then you would know that you can acclimatise, train & assess how your dog will react to intruders & strangers. I know because I have tried it, several times, because I want to know that anyone can enter my house in an emergency.

    The whole purpose is to make them overcome any natural fear with positive, reward training.

    You will also know that they can read our emotions & body language better than any other animal. They can understand us far better than most understand them

    Then you should know you can't train out a dogs natural instinct and if someone tells you they can, walk away fast.

    A dog like a bull mastiff has a natural instinct to protect it's territory. Invading it while it's owner was out could have been partly the reason for this.
    I have a rottweiler cross so while I know she loves and adores people Im aware that her instinct would be to protect her home so I can't be sure what she would do if someone decided to break in.
    She is locked away so more fool them for going into her!

    Perhaps your dog is a less territorial breed in which case your understanding of their nature would of course be different?

    Just to say I have one friend with a key who can enter, I forgot about them before. She adores them as they mind the dogs when I go away.


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  • #312
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,127 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    notjustsweet wrote: »
    Then you should know you can't train out a dogs natural instinct and if someone tells you they can, walk away fast.

    A dog like a bull mastiff has a natural instinct to protect it's territory. Invading it while it's owner was out could have been partly the reason for this.
    I have a rottweiler cross so while I know she loves and adores people Im aware that her instinct would be to protect her home so I can't be sure what she would do if someone decided to break in.
    She is locked away so more fool them for going into her!

    Perhaps your dog is a less territorial breed in which case your understanding of their nature would of course be different?

    Just to say I have one friend with a key who can enter, I forgot about them before. She adores them as they mind the dogs when I go away.

    A dog's natural instinct is to like & want to be with humans. That's how they evolved as our companions.

    By the way, if someone breaks into your house & your dog attacks, the dog can be deemed dangerous & put down.


  • #313
    njs030
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,030 ✭✭✭njs030


    Discodog wrote: »
    A dog's natural instinct is to like & want to be with humans. That's how they evolved as our companions.

    By the way, if someone breaks into your house & your dog attacks, the dog can be deemed dangerous & put down.

    Best to agree to disagree.


  • #314
    retro:electro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    Tazzimus wrote: »
    This post literally made me burst out laughing.

    What part of the possibility of a child being mauled to death do you find so hilarious?


  • #315
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,127 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    The sad thing about this is that, as well as the death of a person, nothing will be learned. We won't know what really happened. We won't know why the dogs attacked & we won't see anything done to prevent it happening again.


  • #316
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Discodog wrote: »
    A dog's natural instinct is to like & want to be with humans. That's how they evolved as our companions.

    By the way, if someone breaks into your house & your dog attacks, the dog can be deemed dangerous & put down.

    Ok but you realise different dogs were bred (evolved by directed evolution) for different purposes. Do you think a breed that was bred over generations to be aggressive toward strangers in its territory would be more aggressive towards strangers than a lap dog? It sounds obvious but there's still many that think there's no difference in propensity towards aggression in different dog breeds.


  • #317
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,575 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Auldloon wrote: »
    Has anyone even clicked the link, it was 2 bull mastiffs not pit bulls ffs.

    Ah shure we couldn't expect the Irish media to get such insignificant details right, they're too busy publishing press statements from their financial backers and sponsors as "journalism", which in fact doesn't exist here.
    Lazy journalism full of half facts, spelling errors and Wikipedia copy and paste.


  • #318
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Discodog wrote: »
    The sad thing about this is that, as well as the death of a person, nothing will be learned. We won't know what really happened. We won't know why the dogs attacked & we won't see anything done to prevent it happening again.

    We know that two dogs mauled an elderly woman to death. The dogs attacked because they were aggressive. There's no other reason to suggest otherwise.


  • #319
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,127 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Ok but you realise different dogs were bred (evolved by directed evolution) for different purposes. Do you think a breed that was bred over generations to be aggressive toward strangers in its territory would be more aggressive towards strangers than a lap dog? It sounds obvious but there's still many that think there's no difference in propensity towards aggression in different dog breeds.

    We have had this argument many times. I have learned that there are open minded people who will listen & those that won't. Two Labradors could have killed someone just as easily.

    Try telling your theory to my neighbour's Westie as you are trying to remove his teeth from your ankle or another neighbour's JRT. Or the Chihuahuas, who bit more Vets in the USA, than any other breed.


  • #320
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,127 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    We know that two dogs mauled an elderly woman to death. The dogs attacked because they were aggressive. There's no other reason to suggest otherwise.

    We know that two dogs were left unattended & the person had access to the dogs or the dogs had access to them. We don't know anything else unless you have additional information.


  • #321
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Discodog wrote: »
    We have had this argument many times. I have learned that there are open minded people who will listen & those that won't. Two Labradors could have killed someone just as easily.

    Try telling your theory to my neighbour's Westie as you are trying to remove his teeth from your ankle or another neighbour's JRT. Or the Chihuahuas, who bit more Vets in the USA, than any other breed.

    But two Labradors haven't killed somebody .......... it was once again, and all too predictably, Restricted Breed dogs.

    I'd rather be removing a Westies teeth from my ankle than removing my head from a RB dog's jaws!!

    Your ignorant, and redundant, theories are based on "four legs good, two legs bad" ..........


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  • #322
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,127 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    But two Labradors haven't killed somebody .......... it was once again, and all too predictably, Restricted Breed dogs.

    I'd rather be removing a Westies teeth from my ankle than removing my head from a RB dog's jaws!!

    Your ignorant, and redundant, theories are based on "four legs good, two legs bad" ..........

    Pots & kettles spring to mind. How is being Ireland's top dog expert going ? :pac:

    But don't consider the fact that you wouldn't get two Labradors for house guarding.


  • #323
    retro:electro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    Discodog wrote: »
    We have had this argument many times. I have learned that there are open minded people who will listen & those that won't. Two Labradors could have killed someone just as easily.

    Try telling your theory to my neighbour's Westie as you are trying to remove his teeth from your ankle or another neighbour's JRT. Or the Chihuahuas, who bit more Vets in the USA, than any other breed.

    I'd rather my chances against a Westie or a Chihuahua over a Bullmastiff.
    Troubling that people keep making this stupid argument.


  • #324
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,127 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    anna080 wrote: »
    I'd rather my chances against a Westie or a Chihuahua over a Bullmastiff.
    Troubling that people keep making this stupid argument.

    People try to make the argument that it's the owner's fault & not the dog's. But good Ol Ireland says otherwise. I presume that you would hang the dogs if they weren't shot ? After all they deliberately decided to kill. They couldn't of been trained & encouraged to guard - could they ?

    Ban breeds, kill dogs & leave the owners to do whatever they like.


  • #325
    njs030
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,030 ✭✭✭njs030


    anna080 wrote: »
    I'd rather my chances against a Westie or a Chihuahua over a Bullmastiff.
    Troubling that people keep making this stupid argument.

    Why do you think that it's acceptable for people to not have a westie under control and properly trained?
    It troubles me that people make that argument.

    The reason the attacks like yesterday make the news is because they are rare, small terriers attacking childrens faces are so common it's not reported.
    Where's your indignation and demands for owner control about that??


  • #326
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Discodog wrote: »
    Pots & kettles spring to mind. How is being Ireland's top dog expert going ? :pac:

    But don't consider the fact that you wouldn't get two Labradors for house guarding.

    Why are some breeds better for gaurding than others?


  • #327
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    anna080 wrote: »
    I'd rather my chances against a Westie or a Chihuahua over a Bullmastiff.
    Troubling that people keep making this stupid argument.

    Exactly ........... these dogs are a serious problem. And by these dogs I mean PitBulls, PitBull type dogs, Restricted Breed dogs, Dangerous dogs and mixes/crosses of same .......... for those who like to be pedantic, we all know what type of dogs we're talking about.

    St. Bernard's are big enough to overpower most people but, historically speaking, it hasn't been an issue.

    Chihuahua's have shown that they have no hesitation in biting people but, again, it hasn't been an issue.

    There's no point in having a serious adult debate about dogs with people who choose to ignore historical facts.


  • #328
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Why are some breeds better for gaurding than others?

    .....and why do the military prefer certain breeds for certain roles? I'm sure there's a reason why the Seals to a Belgian Malinois when they made their house call to Osama or why mastiffs have been used as war dogs for thousands of years.


  • #329
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,127 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Why are some breeds better for gaurding than others?

    They aren't but the best deterrent is a dog that we assume must be dangerous - probably one that's on a government list. After all they can't be wrong.

    The key question is whether the dogs were loose, enclosed in a garden or in the house ?


  • #330
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,127 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    Jawgap wrote: »
    .....and why do the military prefer certain breeds for certain roles? I'm sure there's a reason why the Seals to a Belgian Malinois when they made their house call to Osama or why mastiffs have been used as war dogs for thousands of years.

    Chihuahuas aren't very scary


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  • #331
    retro:electro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    Discodog wrote: »
    People try to make the argument that it's the owner's fault & not the dog's. But good Ol Ireland says otherwise. I presume that you would hang the dogs if they weren't shot ? After all they deliberately decided to kill. They couldn't of been trained & encouraged to guard - could they ?

    Ban breeds, kill dogs & leave the owners to do whatever they like.

    Yes people train dogs to guard and protect and some owners are crap. But to deny a dogs natural and instinctual urge and excuse their natural response to threat is barmy. Dogs aren't toys who only come to life through training and instruction. They're animals with animalistic nature and have instinctual urges and responses that are natural adaptive reactions.


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