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Gardai stopping pedestrians and cyclists breaking red lights today

2

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  • #32
    plodder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,954 ✭✭✭plodder


    rubadub wrote: »
    In Germany is a bit unsettling to see what goes on. People all standing waiting on a street with no cars coming at all.
    Just to relate my experience on that from living there a long time ago and visiting frequently. What you say is true much of the time, a little less so at night time, when there aren't children around. If you crossed on a red light, nobody would say anything to you, unless there were kids (or old people) around. It'd often be the elderly who give out about it.

    The result is that kids can be trusted to walk around the place, to school or wherever because they know that most people obey the traffic signals, and they just do what everyone else does. Here you have the strange combination (in Dublin at least) of pedestrian crossings, and lollipop men/women at some crossings making sure kids do the right thing, but everywhere else you have kids crossing willy-nilly, the same as adults. The sight of Irish parents, dragging their kid across the road at a red light, would be quite shocking to Germans. Yet then you get parents here saying the streets aren't safe for them to walk to school. :rolleyes:

    “Fanaticism is always a sign of repressed doubt” - Carl Jung



  • #33
    Doctor Bob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭Doctor Bob


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    Yeah, the pedestrian asking for permission to cross is a very British attitude that we've taken on. It was highlighted as one of the shortcomings of our urban design by a Danish urban designer a year or two or three ago.

    (Anyone remember the guy?)

    Jan Gehl.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/dublin-needs-more-benches-less-pandering-to-cars-says-expert-1.1920733


  • #34
    RustyNut
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    Just out of idol intrest what's the potential penalty for a pedestrian crossing against a red light. Is it a fixed charge penalty notice or an appearance before the Beak?


  • #35
    fxotoole
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭fxotoole


    average_runner wrote: »
    On the corner of Westmoreland st beside the Londis, three gardai were stopping cyclists and pedestrians that broke red lights. It was good to see as it's a real danger zone there. This was at 545pm.

    They should be stopping drivers that break those lights as well. A few years back I was crossing at those lights. I had a green man so I was 100% entitled to cross there. A car came speeding towards me, and missed me by centimetres. I'd say he was doing about 60kph at the time. Idiot driver not paying attention to the road*

    *I say this as a driver myself.


  • #36
    rubadub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,386 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    28064212 wrote: »
    The 15m rule only applies to zebra crossings. You only have to move past the pedestrian lights and you're not breaking the law
    magicbastarder wrote: »
    to be clear, zebra crossings are not what the law refers to. most light-controlled pedestrians crossings are not zebra crossings.

    there is a law for pedestrian lights, linked already, and this is the one for zebra crossing.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1964/si/294/made/en/print

    38.?(1) On a roadway on which a zebra crossing has been provided a pedestrian shall not cross the roadway within 50 feet of the crossing except by the crossing.

    (50ft ~ 15m)


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  • #37
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,612 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    plodder wrote: »
    Just to relate my experience on that from living there a long time ago and visiting frequently. What you say is true much of the time, a little less so at night time, when there aren't children around. If you crossed on a red light, nobody would say anything to you, unless there were kids (or old people) around. It'd often be the elderly who give out about it.

    The result is that kids can be trusted to walk around the place, to school or wherever because they know that most people obey the traffic signals, and they just do what everyone else does. Here you have the strange combination (in Dublin at least) of pedestrian crossings, and lollipop men/women at some crossings making sure kids do the right thing, but everywhere else you have kids crossing willy-nilly, the same as adults. The sight of Irish parents, dragging their kid across the road at a red light, would be quite shocking to Germans. Yet then you get parents here saying the streets aren't safe for them to walk to school. :rolleyes:

    I'm not German but I grew up in a country with similar system. I find it beneficial and I saw my seven years old niece walking home from school. The distance is about two kilometers, there is one zebra crossing that she has to navigate. It's not on the busiest roads but there are plenty of schools in similar areas here and you don't see kids walking, cycling or rollerblading to school.


  • #38
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,947 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    To add to what plodder said:
    Here you have the strange combination (in Dublin at least) of pedestrian crossings, and lollipop men/women at some crossings

    ... and the children usually have a guardian with them too! (Not criticising; just highlights how little people trust other road users to let kids cross the road.)


  • #39
    Arcade_Tryer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Arcade_Tryer


    fxotoole wrote: »
    They should be stopping drivers that break those lights as well. A few years back I was crossing at those lights. I had a green man so I was 100% entitled to cross there. A car came speeding towards me, and missed me by centimetres. I'd say he was doing about 60kph at the time. Idiot driver not paying attention to the road*

    *I say this as a driver myself.
    That's why the standard modus operandi for pedestrians has always been the safe cross code. I never rely solely on the colour of lights as a pedestrian.


  • #40
    Mac-Chops
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 320 ✭✭Mac-Chops


    Glad to hear this. I cycle up and down the quays most days now and have seen many's a near miss.

    Last week I witnessed a guard shout after a fellow dublin biker who broke a red and went up the Luas (only) tracks at Four Courts. Que bemused look from foreign cyclist as they sheepishly did a U-turn.

    Also the other day, another dublin biker going full speed through a red (a few seconds had past) at the pedestrian lights at Ha'penny Bridge with no helmet or hi-viz and with earphones in, swerving around 2 pedestrians in the process who were crossing the road looking at their phones.

    Too many outliers involved these days in city centre, I'm playing it safe and stopping for red lights.


  • #41
    Pawwed Rig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,454 ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Mac-Chops wrote: »
    with no helmet or hi-viz

    Not sure why that bit is relevant?

    I remember being on a Dublin Bike with a guy shouting at me from a van for not wearing a hi viz. Nice sunny day it was :pac:

    I think there is a belief amongst some that helmets and hi viz are mandatory.


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  • #42
    Green Peter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Green Peter


    Pawwed Rig wrote:
    I think there is a belief amongst some that helmets and hi viz are mandatory.

    Pawwed Rig wrote:
    I remember being on a Dublin Bike with a guy shouting at me from a van for not wearing a hi viz. Nice sunny day it was

    Pawwed Rig wrote:
    Not sure why that bit is relevant?


    If you don't see the value in them now you probably soon will if you are still around afterwards!


  • #43
    Mac-Chops
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 320 ✭✭Mac-Chops


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    Not sure why that bit is relevant?

    I remember being on a Dublin Bike with a guy shouting at me from a van for not wearing a hi viz. Nice sunny day it was :pac:

    I think there is a belief amongst some that helmets and hi viz are mandatory.

    Well if you add it with earphones in, breaking a red and swerving around pedestrians, then there's a few too many boxes left unchecked there for my liking. Pedestrians won't see much crossing the road looking at their phones either mind, hi-viz or not.

    Personally, in the city centre at rush hour at least, (enforcement aside) I think both should be mandatory.

    I had been using neither and was given a helmet as a gift and got a lightweight jacket myself at the weekend and feel better for it.


  • #44
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,947 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    The efficacy of helmets and hiviz is a frequent source of passionate (and tedious) debate.

    We have megathreads for both, linked in the Charter sticky at the top of main Cycling page.


  • #45
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 53,181 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Mac-Chops wrote: »
    I think both should be mandatory.
    you do realise this would be one of the worst things to happen to cycling in ireland - both re numbers partaking, and safety for those left cycling?


  • #46
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,947 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    And bringing them up is about the worst thing that could happen to this thread!


  • #47
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,575 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Doctor Bob wrote: »
    Jan Gehl.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/dublin-needs-more-benches-less-pandering-to-cars-says-expert-1.1920733

    He's right about the benches.


  • #48
    Tea drinker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭Tea drinker


    Feckofff wrote: »
    The same is true for cars, Why not only activate the green light after the car has arrived at the junction and had been waiting for at least 90sec.

    Oh wait that would be ridiculous!

    But apparently fine for pedestrian!

    Car is king right. More traffic and faster traffic is what this city needs.

    Dublin has grown tremendously in the past few decades, the public transport is expensive and simply won't do in many cases. People drive from the suburbs or neighbouring counties to their jobs. It is what it is, we are where we are etc.
    Cars are a huge fact of life here, and many won't let their kids walk to school as the schools are too far away or because the parents are scared of traffic or paedophiles etc. I don't have an answer to the problems. Better urban planning and public transport can't be substituted with lights and fines etc.
    It took many decades to get here, not going to improve overnight.


  • #49
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,947 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Tea drinker wrote: »
    Dublin has grown tremendously in the past few decades, the public transport is expensive and simply won't do in many cases. People drive from the suburbs or neighbouring counties to their jobs. It is what it is, we are where we are etc.

    Actually, a lot of journeys aren't all that long:
    http://irishcycle.com/2016/12/26/4-of-7-excuses-why-ireland-cant-copy-cycling-in-the-netherlands/

    ~40% or so under 4km. Just over half of journeys are 6km or less.

    Just because we have a lot of long-distance commuters doesn't mean short journeys do not make up a large part of total journeys.


  • #50
    Rezident
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,840 ✭✭✭Rezident


    average_runner wrote: »
    On the corner of Westmoreland st beside the Londis, three gardai were stopping cyclists and pedestrians that broke red lights. It was good to see as it's a real danger zone there. This was at 545pm.

    They'll have stopped by 7:45 and won't do it again for years. Just unfortunate for the 0.1% that got caught. Normal service has already resumed.


  • #51
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,774 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    Arcade_Tryer wrote: »
    Indeed. Though there is a significant difference between walking out in front of traffic, and walking out well before traffic is within collision range. It would be ridiculous for pedestrians to be expected to obey lights at all times when crossing the road. If you need to take evasive action on a busy city centre street every time a pedestrian walks out in front of you, then perhaps you're going too fast for the conditions?

    I was actually going slow and still had to take evasive action. Having to take evasive action is the point of what I wrote. I did everything right. You have no reason to even speculate as to my speed from what I wrote. It's actually a baseless comment.

    As for the former, pedestrians should always make sure it's safe to cross, wherever they are. It's not hard to do and some patience would help in a lot of cases.

    This morning a young lady pushing her young child decided not to wait for green and dashed out in front of me, and cars moving off after a green light. The cars beeped her too as they had to stop. Perhaps they were going too fast? Yea, it's everybody's fault except the lady who showed little or no regard for the safety of the child.


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  • #52
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    Actually, a lot of journeys aren't all that long:
    http://irishcycle.com/2016/12/26/4-of-7-excuses-why-ireland-cant-copy-cycling-in-the-netherlands/

    ~40% or so under 4km. Just over half of journeys are 6km or less.

    Just because we have a lot of long-distance commuters doesn't mean short journeys do not make up a large part of total journeys.

    Half of all car journeys in Ireland are under 2km

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/50-use-cars-for-travel-under-2km-345755.html

    It could happen fast; look at how New York and London changed within a couple of years. Even LA is now opening a nice-looking protected (by reflective bollards) bike lane.

    I walked home from localish shops with a friend today; we were walking for around half an hour, and around 100 cars passed us. I was looking at how many people were in each. Two had more than one person in them.

    We've gone like the Easter Islanders; cars are our Long Ears.


  • #53
    Mac-Chops
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 320 ✭✭Mac-Chops


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    The efficacy of helmets and hiviz is a frequent source of passionate (and tedious) debate.

    We have megathreads for both, linked in the Charter sticky at the top of main Cycling page.

    Noted.

    I came to this particular thread to post re importance of cyclists not jumping red lights and gave examples of recent occasions when I witnessed this happening which almost caused an accident.

    I seemingly gave too many details as to what the cyclist was/wasn't wearing and hit a sore point. My bad. :)


  • #54
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,947 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Well, I'm not a mod, and I certainly don't want to tell other posters what they can or cannot mention, but it's worth noting that those particular questions are more vexed than many might realise, and bringing them up usually generates more heat than light.


  • #55
    plodder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,954 ✭✭✭plodder


    Interesting thread in the legal forum yesterday. Could have happened at the same location.

    Pedestrian being charged with "endangering traffic".

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057747478

    “Fanaticism is always a sign of repressed doubt” - Carl Jung



  • #56
    newport2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,620 ✭✭✭newport2


    fxotoole wrote: »
    They should be stopping drivers that break those lights as well. A few years back I was crossing at those lights. I had a green man so I was 100% entitled to cross there. A car came speeding towards me, and missed me by centimetres. I'd say he was doing about 60kph at the time. Idiot driver not paying attention to the road*

    *I say this as a driver myself.

    They should put cameras on the busiest traffic lights, with a snapshot of the car's registration taken for every car that breaks it. The problem would pretty much disappear overnight once the fines start arriving in the post. And I say this as primarily a motorist. Too many drivers take amber as a signal to accelerate. If people know they will be fined each time they break a light, then they won't break them. Impossible for Garda to enforce this on a manual basis, they can't be everywhere all the time.


  • #57
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 53,181 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    newport2 wrote: »
    Too many drivers take amber as a signal to accelerate.
    it's not them i'm worried about!


  • #58
    jive
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,762 ✭✭✭jive


    newport2 wrote: »
    They should put cameras on the busiest traffic lights, with a snapshot of the car's registration taken for every car that breaks it. The problem would pretty much disappear overnight once the fines start arriving in the post. And I say this as primarily a motorist. Too many drivers take amber as a signal to accelerate. If people know they will be fined each time they break a light, then they won't break them. Impossible for Garda to enforce this on a manual basis, they can't be everywhere all the time.

    Cyclists break red lights more blatantly, motorists break lights more often; the double standard is hilarious online where people crib about cyclists. It's alright though, similar to food dropped on the floor, you've a few seconds after the light goes red in which to just blaze on through.

    Red light cameras would make a world of difference, even just random enforcement as seen in the OP. Speed vans on the same roads at the same times aren't much of a deterrent for anything only stopping speeding on a 500m stretch of road in the proximity of the van.


  • #59
    I love Sean nos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭I love Sean nos


    Moflojo wrote: »
    Whatever about the cyclists, I'd be interested to hear how the conversations with the pedestrians went. What could Gardaí accuse them of doing wrong?
    "See you in court guard" and walk off. There's no FPN. All you're doing is generating a load of paperwork.

    Strange that this happened on the same day as the PAC was examining the Garda Training College yet again. Almost like it wasn't a coincidence.


  • #60
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    I love Sean nos wrote: »
    "See you in court guard" and walk off. There's no FPN. All you're doing is generating a load of paperwork.

    Strange that this happened on the same day as the PAC was examining the Garda Training College yet again. Almost like it wasn't a coincidence.

    And if you call a garda because someone's done something that endangers you, and the garda says "See you in court, citizen"?


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  • #61
    I love Sean nos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭I love Sean nos


    Chuchote wrote: »
    And if you call a garda because someone's done something that endangers you, and the garda says "See you in court, citizen"?
    What? :confused:


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