Anti Pike sign in Oughterard.

twin_beacon · 18-05-2017 3:12pm #1

Seen this on facebook.
I don't live near Corrib, but I fish it for Pike and Ferox at different stages of the year. I have launched boats in the past from Oughterard, spent money in the shops and pubs there, and hired guides from the general area in the past.
I seen that image on facebook a week or two ago, it left a bad taste in my mouth, but I ignored it. However, and actual sign, on the road into Oughterard is a different story. I think I will be spending more time on Lough Ree and Lough Derg in the coming years, and spend my money in their local economies.

thefisherbuy · 18-05-2017 3:54pm

Have seen that around a heap around Facebook, Funny thing is that there's actually 26 pike in the picture .. just makes me laugh they think that pike fishing in general doesn't bring in any money... there's nothing you can do with thick minded people they won't change their mind that they are wrong..

ardinn · 18-05-2017 6:00pm

Since I opened my website, I have also opened a facebook page, my target audience and people I friended in the beginning was anyone with a fish in their profile picture. I now have 1200 friends with fishy profile pictures.

Now, what has that got to do with the above? I get an AWFUL lot of info on every stretch of water around the country. That image has appeared numerous times and different debates occur depending on who's profile page your on and what sort of fishing they do.

The most noticable thing in all of this, be it sea, coarse, or game fishing, is everyone has an issue with IFI, Incompetence, bad management and agenda's all form part of the issues. Im sure there is a middle ground that can be found for corrib management, but, with trout and pike anglers turning on one another, there will never be time to approach the ifi with suggestions, options, and best practice for the continued success of the lakes around the country.

Im not sure who put up the signs, but it is a bit insulting to pike anglers. I would think it is more of a dig at the IFI and its management than a hatred for pike or pike anglers.

I have seen a few representative bodies for different areas but im coming of the opinion we, as combined clubs and anglers, need to get a properly functioning representative body and agree on the needs of everyone, then, challenge the IFI so real change can occur. The only thing I see happening now is arguments between the groups and an inability to come up with a solution. If there is such a body then they arent doing their job, as I have never been asked to join or sign anything, I'm fishing in various forms for 20 years!

Thats a bit of a ramble but I hope you get what im saying, We need to sort our own house out, then go about turning ifi inside out as one group! And I think if any group of people can do this, anglers can. We are probably the most passionate group of conservationists alive and I dont know of anyone who wouldnt like to be involved!

thefisherbuy · 18-05-2017 6:03pm

ardinn wrote: »

Since I opened my website, I have also opened a facebook page, my target audience and people I friended in the beginning was anyone with a fish in their profile picture. I now have 1200 friends with fishy profile pictures.

Now, what has that got to do with the above? I get an AWFUL lot of info on every stretch of water around the country. That image has appeared numerous times and different debates occur depending on who's profile page your on and what sort of fishing they do.

The most noticable thing in all of this, be it sea, coarse, or game fishing, is everyone has an issue with IFI, Incompetence, bad management and agenda's all form part of the issues. Im sure there is a middle ground that can be found for corrib management, but, with trout and pike anglers turning on one another, there will never be time to approach the ifi with suggestions, options, and best practice for the continued success of the lakes around the country.

Im not sure who put up the signs, but it is a bit insulting to pike anglers. I would think it is more of a dig at the IFI and its management than a hatred for pike or pike anglers.

I have seen a few representative bodies for different areas but im coming of the opinion we, as combined clubs and anglers, need to get a properly functioning representative body and agree on the needs of everyone, then, challenge the IFI so real change can occur. The only thing I see happening now is arguments between the groups and an inability to come up with a solution. If there is such a body then they arent doing their job, as I have never been asked to join or sign anything, I'm fishing in various forms for 20 years!

Thats a bit of a ramble but I hope you get what im saying, We need to sort our own house out, then go about turning ifi inside out as one group! And I think if any group of people can do this, anglers can. We are probably the most passionate group of conservationists alive and I dont know of anyone who wouldnt like to be involved!

There is alot of problems with IFI staff especially higher end of it.. TO be honest alot of them on the ground are sound lads.. Its the management that are the problem imop.. even though I've met a few thick ifi on the ground... Id like if they would treat all fish the same not to prefer this fish over that etc etc.

kildare lad · 18-05-2017 7:36pm

Them lads in the west of ireland couldnt care less if everything except trout and salmon where eradicated from our waters.what chance has angling in this country with the ifi at the wheel, when the ifi sent 1200 coarse fish from sheelin this year to be incinerated, kinales only a boat ride from sheelin. Why not put them in there??they claim they have no money to relocate them, but they can spend 10's of thousands gill netting. I no lads from a pike club who offered to re locate them out of there own pocket, but they were turned down. The EA in england stocked half a million fish last year. How many fish did the IFI stock last year?? its probably minus if u counted all the fish theyve killed with nets

ardinn · 18-05-2017 8:03pm

kildare lad wrote: »

Them lads in the west of ireland couldnt care less if everything except trout and salmon where eradicated from our waters.what chance has angling in this country with the ifi at the wheel, when the ifi sent 1200 coarse fish from sheelin this year to be incinerated, kinales only a boat ride from sheelin. Why not put them in there??they claim they have no money to relocate them, but they can spend 10's of thousands gill netting. I no lads from a pike club who offered to re locate them out of there own pocket, but they were turned down. The EA in england stocked half a million fish last year. How many fish did the IFI stock last year?? its probably minus if u counted all the fish theyve killed with nets

If thats true, that needs to be reported by the media - That's Fúcking shocking!

18-05-2017 8:09pm

Could someone explain the poster? I dont understand it

Are they asking people to stop introducing pike to the water?

How is fishing for pike bad for trout?

Thanks

kildare lad · 18-05-2017 8:10pm

Nothings shocks me anymore with the IFI...Sure the fish used to sent off to be made into cat food.
And yet they still managed to relocate 3500 pike, that articles from the year 2000. this year they killed 150 pike on sheelin and the IFI couldnt relocate even 1 pike
. http://www.irishtimes.com/news/felines-fed-on-surplus-pike-from-lough-sheelin-1.299113

ardinn · 18-05-2017 8:19pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Could someone explain the poster? I dont understand it

Are they asking people to stop introducing pike to the water?

How is fishing for pike bad for trout?

Thanks

Trout anglers dont want pike in the corrib basically as pike reproduce 25 times faster and eat trout!

Thats my very basic understanding of it but someone else can go into the intricate details!

18-05-2017 8:28pm

ardinn wrote: »

Trout anglers dont want pike in the corrib basically as pike reproduce 25 times faster and eat trout!

Thats my very basic understanding of it but someone else can go into the intricate details!

Thanks for that
So the people behind this campaign want to get rid of all the pike? Sounds a bit extreme
So protect Corrib trout, but not corrib pike?
Were pike recently introduced?

kildare lad · 18-05-2017 8:38pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Could someone explain the poster? I dont understand it

Are they asking people to stop introducing pike to the water?

How is fishing for pike bad for trout?

Thanks

the way they see it is Pike = bad guy, trout= good guy. they blame pike for falling trout stocks. if you are on facebook go to the irish pike societys page.they brought out a report using data obtained from the IFI showing that alto pike numbers haved dropped with the use of gill nets, so have trout numbers dropped too.
If they are so worried about protecting trout, they should return them instead of killing them. Also a lot of streams that trout swim up to spawn are overgrown. thats due to run off from farms. Yet theres no pressure being put on the farmers to clean up there act. Pike are being made a scapegoat. The same people who were on facebook supporting gillnetting, if u went on to there facebook pages, there was dead trout all over the place. the trout were not killed by pike but by them.. i still cant get my head around the stupidity and ignorance!!

thefisherbuy · 18-05-2017 10:17pm

Yes to be fair if they released the fish they caught it would do a bit but keeping one for the pan the odd is perfectly fine.. another thing is that all these spawning streams they made the quality better were all dried up their with two weeks of sunishine no wonder why the spawning streams are ruined..

twin_beacon · 19-05-2017 8:48am

ardinn wrote: »

Trout anglers dont want pike in the corrib basically as pike reproduce 25 times faster and eat trout!

Thats my very basic understanding of it but someone else can go into the intricate details!

Thats what they are trying to imply, however the amount of eggs laid alone is not a good metric to base this on. You also need to give a figure of how many of those eggs actually hatch and the survival rate of the fry the eggs produce.
To the average non angler, that sign implies that pike numbers are increasing 25 times faster than trout, which is not the case.

Deleted User wrote:

Were pike recently introduced?

Pike and trout have lived side by side in Corrib (and most other Irish lakes, with some exceptions, usually in isolated mountain areas) since before records began. For years lots of trout anglers in the west claim that pike were introduced, but in 2013 a study found they were native. http://www.fisheriesireland.ie/Press-releases/new-study-reveals-pike-native-to-ireland.html

thefisherbuy wrote: »

There is alot of problems with IFI staff especially higher end of it.. TO be honest alot of them on the ground are sound lads.. Its the management that are the problem imop.. even though I've met a few thick ifi on the ground... Id like if they would treat all fish the same not to prefer this fish over that etc etc.

100% agree. I have got involved with IFI in the past, and I'm currently working with them trying to get some projects up and running. The staff on the ground are great, I honestly can't fault them.

gumbo1 · 19-05-2017 9:26am

The sign has been doing the rounds for a few weeks now. Basically Oughterard trout anglers want everyone, including ifi to kill of the pike. They are doing a good enough job of it themselves with their catch and kill comps being held regularly during the season. As stated above, pike and trout have lived in the same waters for centuries and created a natural balance in the ecosystem. Some backwards thinking fools reckon that the trout numbers and sizes will increase if all the pike are removed, which is wrong. There'll still be the same amount of fly and larva in the lake but more trout competing for them which in turn will lead to smaller weights of the fish. A pike wouldn't go for a healthy trout as they are too fast and pike are ambush predators so the sick or weak ones would be taken leaving only the big healthy ones. As the op said, he's going to take his money elsewhere from now on. How many people will feel that in their pocket? The tackle shop owner. The petrol station. The local pub, maybe. The guides. And that's only from 1 angler. If everyone who fish's for pike where to take their money away from Oughterard it wouldn't be long before places start to close down due to lack of interested anglers.
That trout club need to sort themselves out and realise the damage they are trying to do not only themselves and the community but to what mother nature has taken care of for centuries.

thefisherbuy · 19-05-2017 10:34am

gumbo1 wrote: »

The sign has been doing the rounds for a few weeks now. Basically Oughterard trout anglers want everyone, including ifi to kill of the pike. They are doing a good enough job of it themselves with their catch and kill comps being held regularly during the season. As stated above, pike and trout have lived in the same waters for centuries and created a natural balance in the ecosystem. Some backwards thinking fools reckon that the trout numbers and sizes will increase if all the pike are removed, which is wrong. There'll still be the same amount of fly and larva in the lake but more trout competing for them which in turn will lead to smaller weights of the fish. A pike wouldn't go for a healthy trout as they are too fast and pike are ambush predators so the sick or weak ones would be taken leaving only the big healthy ones. As the op said, he's going to take his money elsewhere from now on. How many people will feel that in their pocket? The tackle shop owner. The petrol station. The local pub, maybe. The guides. And that's only from 1 angler. If everyone who fish's for pike where to take their money away from Oughterard it wouldn't be long before places start to close down due to lack of interested anglers.
That trout club need to sort themselves out and realise the damage they are trying to do not only themselves and the community but to what mother nature has taken care of for centuries.

Seen that comment myself on Facebook.. Everyone who posted about them being completely wrong got their comments took down, That comment I really laughed at.. " looking forward to catching a 20lb ferox" probably not many left now.. remember that welsh lad who killed a massive ferox 2 years ago.. not many left now, If caught they would be killed.. Even Seen them saying pike aren't native..

twin_beacon · 19-05-2017 11:13am

gumbo1, I agree with everything you said.

From the image you attached, Pike is the biggest issue Corrib has ever faced? Seriously?
What about Lagarosiphon? According to IFI, zebra muscles are attaching themselves to these plants, so instead of having the zebras just on the bottom of the lake, they are now existing throughout the water column, so their density per square meter is much higher, allowing them to filter more water.

There has also been an explosion of coarse fish in Corrib in the last 10 years. As the water in the lake is very rich with food, there really are some massive roach, bream and hybrids in there. We know this as some ended up in the gill nets designed for the pike. It does make sense though, reduce pike numbers, and the prey fish numbers increase.

"Pike Management" costs IFI over 100k a year on average. I have no issue with them spending 100k a year on improving trout stocks, if it was proven to work. There as be no dramatic increase in trout numbers since they started pike culling. Now with the increased coarse fish numbers in the lake, by removing pike, they are doing a lot more harm than good.

thefisherbuy wrote: »

Seen that comment myself on Facebook.. Everyone who posted about them being completely wrong got their comments took down, That comment I really laughed at.. " looking forward to catching a 20lb ferox" probably not many left now.. remember that welsh lad who killed a massive ferox 2 years ago.. not many left now, If caught they would be killed.. Even Seen them saying pike aren't native..

from their facebook page:
"The Oughterard Anglers and Boatmen Association has always supported and will continue to support pike management on Lough Corrib for the foreseeable future. Over the last twelve months, the Oughterard Committee has reviewed both national and international scientific literature with respect to pike biology and behaviour. We are of the firm belief that pike management (gill netting & electrofishing) are critical to the sustainability of Lough Corrib and the Owenriff system as salmonid fisheries."

One of my mates asked for a reference to the "international scientific literature". His comment was deleted, and he was blocked from the page.

Reedsie · 19-05-2017 2:37pm

The Crucial Role of Predators: A New Perspective on Ecology
Scientists have recently begun to understand the vital role played by top predators in ecosystems and the profound impacts that occur when those predators are wiped out. Now, researchers are citing new evidence that shows the importance of lions, wolves, sharks, and other creatures at the top of the food chain.
- Yale.edu

What Happens When the Top Predator Is Removed From an Ecosystem?
Top predators are the animals that occupy the position at the top of a food web. Examples of top predators include sharks and wolves. Top predators play an important role in maintaining the balance and biodiversity of an ecosystem. If the top predator is removed from the delicate balance of any particular ecosystem, there may be disastrous effects for the other plants and animals that inhabit the environment.
- Sciencing.com

There are so many studies and examples of where the loss of the apex predator leads to a temporary increase in prey which is totally unsustainable and can have disastrous effects on an eco-system.
There are loads of reports of an large increase in roach and coarse fish in these 'managed' lakes. These are feeding on the same things trout are. Competing more. Eating much more than they have in the past.

"Once a population overshoots the long-term carrying capacity of its habitat it is only a question of time until it declines, or even collapses or crashes (i.e., declines precipitously), but usually not before damaging its habitat and reducing the ability of that habitat to support future generations."

kildare lad · 19-05-2017 3:45pm

Lads, you could have all the evidence, scientific research etc, and you till wouldn't be able to change there mind. The evidence is there, its taken from the IFI's own stock surveys on the lake and still you cant change there mind. All coarse fish are vermin in their eyes and that'll will never change. the sad thing is the same mindset is in some members of the IFI too.There was an argument on facebook between a corrib angler and a piker, the corrib lad was spouting the usual crap " corribs over run with pike" " kill them all" " theyre eatin all the trout" .

Someone went on to his facebook page and got a pic of him holding up to two dead trout of 5 or 6 lb. They posted the pic of him and wrote underneath " are you sure its the pike eating all the trout" and he replied " i can keep any fish over the legal size ". You can never change that mindset. He sees that as dinner, where as id see that as removing 2 big trout from the ecosystem, who wont be able to spawn, lay two or three times as many eggs as smaller trout, and pass on their good genetics. I can legally kill pike up to 50cm but never will. That the difference between us and them.

Btw ive no problem keeping the odd fish for the pot. Ive done so before and i keep a few roach every now and then for deads.

demanufactured · 19-05-2017 5:14pm

Absolute cavemen.
No idea how an ecosystem works and only interested in one thing.

ColmEm · 19-05-2017 6:04pm

Feel free to share.

idnkph · 19-05-2017 6:27pm

How can there be catch and kill competitions? Is it not illegal to kill more than one pike over 22 inches?
How can the competitions be held if there are laws against it?

Bikerguy · 19-05-2017 6:38pm

idnkph wrote: »

How can there be catch and kill competitions? Is it not illegal to kill more than one pike over 22 inches?
How can the competitions be held if there are laws against it?

I agree here..but i guess they can make exceptions as they are IFI..... like they can make lakes private aka not fishing allowed the same way they can make rule "kill them all". I am disappointed.... relocation would be natural choice or not allowing to take any trout for a season or two will defo increase the stock.

gumbo1 · 19-05-2017 7:11pm

idnkph wrote: »

How can there be catch and kill competitions? Is it not illegal to kill more than one pike over 22 inches?
How can the competitions be held if there are laws against it?

It's called a section 51 exemption. They have to apply to IFI for this and more often than not they get it, be it through a friend or neighbour of one of the club's committee.
IFI would be better off improving water quality and accessibility to lakes and rivers rather than culling pike just because that's the mindset they inherited when they started fishing.

idnkph · 19-05-2017 8:05pm

Losing battle for all us pikers so. And some lads in this country blame it eastern euro buddies for the decline when it's actually or very own IFI

kildare lad · 20-05-2017 1:01pm

they're both to blame. And waterways ireland for cutting the reeds during spawning times on the canals. thankfully thats stopped

thefisherbuy · 20-05-2017 1:12pm

idnkph wrote: »

Losing battle for all us pikers so. And some lads in this country blame it eastern euro buddies for the decline when it's actually or very own IFI

I agree but IFI are only gill netting on some of "trout lakes" some of our lakes where I used to fish are totally ruined by "people" used to be a lake that hold 20's lucky to get a fish over double digits now.. if they were doing that with salmon then the ifi would care..

twin_beacon · 22-05-2017 11:31am

They are at it again, more propaganda.
https://www.facebook.com/OughterardAnglersAssociation/

Keeping the divide between trout anglers, and pike anglers alive and well.
As an all rounder, that fishes for both species (as well as many more), its really annoying to see whats going on in those lakes.

Last year Matt Hayes was very vocal against the gill netting of the managed trout lakes. Matt has a following of just shy of 190k people on facebook, so he speaks to a very large audience. Shortly after his campaign, the IFI facebook page got a lot of comments from UK and European anglers that had planned an Irish angling holiday, but changed their plans in protest to the gill netting.
I feel for small guest houses and B&Bs that suffered because of this.

TD Éamon Ó Cuív supports the Oughterard Anglers Association, maybe this actually needs to be brought up in the Dail. FF don't have a great track record of protecting fish, a lot of the gill netted pike and coarse fish from the midlands lakes ended up in Albert Reynold's dog food factory.

demanufactured · 22-05-2017 1:51pm

Jesus's the mentallity of some of these eejits.
"pike out - trout in"
"put the pike in a pike only lake"

They really don't have the first clue about fishery management....
If they really want a trout only lake then they should stock corrib with rainbows... Because they won't have many trout left if they keep knocking them all on the head.

thefisherbuy · 22-05-2017 3:55pm

You can't even say anything to them lads.. there's some "pike anglers" saying kill all trout sure your only lowering yourself to their level, you can't even state facts it goes in one ear and out the other.. there's not much you can do with them there stuck back in the ages.

twin_beacon · 22-05-2017 4:29pm

Lough Ree? Good luck with that. Lough Ree is a perfect example of a mixed fishery, and throws specimens of all species every year.
It recently seen a newspaper article from the roscommon/athlone area in 1997, I took a pic of it with my phone, must try and dig it out. In the article, athlone anglers were talking about low trout numbers in Ree, what did they blame it on? Water quality, and issues with the feeder streams.
20 years later, and 60 miles west, they are still blaming pike.

kildare lad · 22-05-2017 4:41pm

Theres been a fella on facebook the last few days, spewing all the usual ****e on all the trout pages. pike are this blah blah blah. Anytime anyone wrote back stating facts they were blocked and deleted. They've even stooped so low as sayin, this is the worse threat the corrib has ever faced. The corrib is massive, how did the trout survive before gillnetting??

Just look at canals for example, straight,featureless, shallow enough bodies of water. Nowhere for prey fish to hide. And yet pike never managed to eat themselves out of existance. In fact, before the poaching happened we had the best canal fishing in the world, All the places the english used to came over to fish had good stock of pike and very good stocks of coarse fish. And yet these cave men in galway think on a lake the size of the corrib that pike are gonna eat all the trout.they need there head examined. Its noting but hatred for pike thats driving this.

Id love to know how many trout are killed on the corrib every year

Anti Pike sign in Oughterard.

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