Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VIII: May the Fourth Star Be With You!

Former Former wrote: »

I guess what we've seen in the last few weeks is that the experience that so many posters here think is a load of bollocks might actually count for something after all.

Well yes, if everybody considers your point of view to be the definitive one. Which obviously you do.

Sexton's experience counted for nought in Friday's match.

I don't really think people are overlooking experience...maybe at times you overlook form FF?

Johnny Short Drummer wrote: »

I don't think anyone would have had a problem with any or all of those guys starting. The former two surely would have if they were fit and I think most people were surprised Toner was left out.

Yeah, and they would have made a huge difference up front where we got absolutely embarrassed in the tight on our own ball. Likely a difference between winning and losing.

But I suppose a long-term benefit from the game will be that guys like Conan will be taking a step further to becoming players like them.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Is the point not that our experienced guys were missing on Friday? Heaslip/SOB/Toner etc?

Any team would miss Heaslip and SOB but other key experienced players did not deliver.
Let's not gloss over this fact.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Noone is glossing over that fact. Our pack was understrength and inexperienced and played like it.

Ahh. We have moved from talking about the team to talking about the pack. Not sure when that happened but.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

FF was clearly talking about the experience that the team was missing. All of the experienced players we're missing currently are in the pack... Except Kearney I guess.

And I'm talking about experienced players on the pitch.
Anyway life's to short. I'm out.

Buer wrote: »

I wonder if Ulster want to buy it out.

Seriously, he's right up there for me in terms of my least favourite players now. His talent to performance ratio is shocking. Couldn't have given less of a damn tonight.

I do think we failed to do our due diligence on him though. The guy is an utterly embarrassing kicker. We can't have been aware of that when signing him.

swiwi_ wrote: »

Hard to do due diligence when his final season at the canes involved 2 minutes at the end of each match.

I've been shocked at his kicking out of hand though. Pretty damn average. Don't rate McGrath too highly either yet, bit of a weak spot for Leinster, but he does definitely seem a better player than Gibson park.

Worth noting that JGP is at the end of a very, very long season having come directly from SR up here. I know he didn't play much down there, but I'm sure he could still use a break. Can't kick for crap though, we learned that early on from him. McCarthy should be looking at that spot as a real opportunity for him now.

As for McGrath, I like him myself. Still needs to do some work on his basics but some of the other parts of his game are excellent.

Former Former wrote: »

I guess what we've seen in the last few weeks is that the experience that so many posters here think is a load of bollocks might actually count for something after all.

swiwi_ wrote: »

Sexton's experience counted for nought in Friday's match.

OldRio wrote: »

And I'm talking about experienced players on the pitch.
Anyway life's to short. I'm out.

I think it's less about actual experience in and of itself. It's more about the type of leadership that players bring. Sexton has always been the mouthy, cranky type. He demands a lot from those around him even if he isn't delivering himself. That can help push certain types of players. But sometimes you need the calm head as well. Someone who relaxes players a little. That's the thing about team sports. Sometimes guys need a kick up the ass, sometimes they need a reassuring voice.

For the opening 10-15 minutes it was all Leinster. We were comfortably the better team. But as the game wore on and Scarlets got their scores we were almost snatching at the game and making silly mistakes while doing so. Sextons "kick up the ass" approach probably only made those inexperienced lads that bit more anxious. Nacewa didn't seem to deliver much in that regard which would be my biggest worry. A steady voice like Heaslip telling the lads to calm it down, bring it back to some more basic things like hitting rucks and going around the fringes was sorely missing.

Leaders like that are rarely just uncovered in a week or a month. They are made over time. Hopefully this game will lead to guys like Molony taking that stuff on. I said at the start of the season that it was a season too early for a lot of the younger guys. Missing a lot of the cooler, more experienced heads at this stage of the season proved that in many ways.

awec wrote: »

Neil Francis article in the indo today that you'll all probably want to avoid to keep your sanity.

I think the general gist is the Leinster ladyboys are back.

I'll stop you at Neil Francis!



Ultimately we may gain from this loss, yes we really missed Jamie in the last few weeks, but the younger guys like Conan and Ruddock will hopefully learn from this. In retrospect I don't think Molony starting paid off, as he was pretty much anonymous and maybe Dev's presence in an inexperienced pack may have helped. Hopefully though he will learn from this and it will benefit us down the line. It's a **** way to end what was a good season though it may pay big dividends going forward, if the players have it in them to kick on from here.

awec wrote: »

Underneath it all his points are probably valid, it's just the way he puts it across is trying too hard to be controversial.

A couple of his points in the middle around leadership and experience are. The general gist of the article is sensationalist nonsense. He talks about how bad Leinster have been in knock out games this season and last, talking specifically about the 2 1/2 bad games and ignoring the 2 1/2 good games. He talks about us being lazy. We're really not. It wasn't laziness that cost us. The irony being that his conclusion came, not from detailed analysis, but a lazy attempt at such.

I always chuckle at Francis when he makes these claims. He is entitled to and he's probably right in some of what he says. When it came to the crunch, we were found wanting and we can't dress that up (aside from in a dress and heels, apparently).

But Francis was the laziest git in the world who would go completely missing when the going got tough. It would be like Peter Clohessy writing an article on the need for referees to crack down on foul play. He is blessed that he hasn't played in 20 years and many readers/commenters can't recall seeing him on the field.

Former Former wrote: »

The weekend's results mean that we will definitely be in Tier 2 of the Champions Cup draw, as will Sarries so we cannot be drawn against them - bit of a silver lining there for yiz.

Christ. There's potentially going to be a stinker of a group coming up for someone. I suppose it will be offset a little by the Scarlets now a likely top seed.

Monpellier and Castres crashing out at the weekend won't be fun trips for anyone either though. Can see there being a couple of really brutal groups coming up.

Again, get an Italian team in your group and you're going to be almost guaranteed qualification. The other three pools could be very difficult.