Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

flasher0030 · 19-05-2017 02:35PM

Robeman wrote: »

I think you are missing the point Flynn was making

All team have their "process" which will cover match preparation and also post match activity.

At the moment Flynn refers to Mayo Squad (if working within a process) should have been

- Warming down or
- Interacting with fans

If squad was supposed to be warming down then Flynns point well made. AOS avoiding the hard work and going after personal glory.

If squad was supposed to be interacting with fans at that time then Flynn is totally out of line. AOS is to be commended for doing what he was supposed to be doing and rest of squad should be condemmed for not doing what they were supposed to do and ignoring fans

Also possible that "process" not in place at that moment and squad could do what they liked. In which case 29 decided that best thing they could do at that moment was a warm down while 1 decided to interact with fans. All were doing what they saw as most important for them. In this case nobody should be condemmed for anything but we can all have our opinions on choices made.

Hard work!!! A warm down???

It doesn’t matter what “process” is planned, making a spontaneous decision to make a positive difference in the lives of 20 kids, is more important than a warm down.

Even the word process may lend itself to part of the mentality issue that faces Mayo GAA. It just sounds so robotic.

MayoAreMagic · 19-05-2017 02:50PM

The main issue with the whole Bernard Flynn 'revelations', is that we aren't really getting any context on it. Was it a huddle where a serious message was being delivered? Or was it simply someone saying 'lads, don't forget there is dinner laid in in such a place and we are meeting again tomorrow to watch back the video'.
Did AOS skip the warm-down altogether? Or was he only on for the last 15 minutes anyway?
Does Flynn know the answers to these things himself before he came to his conclusion?
There isn't enough info to go off.

Fr Tod Umptious · 19-05-2017 03:34PM

keane2097 wrote: »

Don't think those two positions are irreconcilable are they? I'd be inclined to agree that there's not much between Kerry and Mayo - I'd probably make us slight favs in an AI SF but it's the toss of a coin.

Dublin are ahead of both of us but I still think we have a good chance of beating them again later in the year.

We're all around the same, but I have a fancy that Kerry could win it this year - is that a problematic position?

Of course it's not a problematic position, of course they could win but they would likely have to get past two very good teams in Mayo and Dublin to do so.

So what is your optimism based on?

A win and a draw v Dublin in the league ?

The win in the final coming by a point after a free hitting the post.

Kerry are a team that is rebuilding

The team that won the league had 4 novices on it, Shannahan, Barry, Savage and McCarthy.

There is no guarantee that those guys will be as good at championship.

The RTE website has the following in an article today

Ultimately though, Dublin and Kerry are ahead of the rest as things stand

I think this is a stretch, Dublin certainly are a better team, but not Kerry.

They only got to the league final on points difference.

Had they not got to that final, or had they lost it in extra time, I doubt the above would be written.

By the way this debate may be more suited to the championship thread rather than the Mayo one.

The Talking Bread · 19-05-2017 03:46PM

Robeman wrote: »

I think you are missing the point Flynn was making

All team have their "process" which will cover match preparation and also post match activity.

At the moment Flynn refers to Mayo Squad (if working within a process) should have been

- Warming down or
- Interacting with fans

If squad was supposed to be warming down then Flynns point well made. AOS avoiding the hard work and going after personal glory.

If squad was supposed to be interacting with fans at that time then Flynn is totally out of line. AOS is to be commended for doing what he was supposed to be doing and rest of squad should be condemmed for not doing what they were supposed to do and ignoring fans

Also possible that "process" not in place at that moment and squad could do what they liked. In which case 29 decided that best thing they could do at that moment was a warm down while 1 decided to interact with fans. All were doing what they saw as most important for them. In this case nobody should be condemmed for anything but we can all have our opinions on choices made.

Your posts are so uninformed, senseless, deliberately provocative and bizzare I have gone beyond the point of being irritated by them and have entered a mentality where I enjoy them!
Christ on a bike!

Would you not prefer to engage in a normal debate/chat rather than deliberately trying to play the village 1diot here!

keane2097 · 19-05-2017 04:14PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Of course it's not a problematic position, but what is it based on?

A win and a draw v Dublin in the league ?

The win in the final coming by a point after a free hitting the post.

Kerry are a team that is rebuilding

The team that won the league had 4 novices on it, Shannahan, Barry, Savage and McCarthy.

There is no guarantee that those guys will be as good at championship.

The RTE website has the following in an article today

Ultimately though, Dublin and Kerry are ahead of the rest as things stand

I think this is a stretch, Dublin certainly are a better team, but not Kerry.

They only got to the league final on points difference.

Had they not got to that final, or had they lost it in extra time, I doubt the above would be written.

By the way this debate may be more suited to the championship thread rather than the Mayo one.

Well yeah I mean what else are we going to base it on if not recent performances. If we're going to leave out the last two games either team played against Dublin then Mayo are a team that huffed and puffed against Tyrone and lost to a Galway team that got buried by Tipperary last year, so you could have argued that their credentials were fairly shaky on that basis.

Realistically all three teams have proved pretty close to one another mostly in the last couple of years at Championship time. Dublin keep beating Mayo so are probably ahead of them, we just beat Dublin and drew with them when we should have won, so we're probably fairly close to Dublin.

I don't see anything out of whack in all of this.

Honestly I think this Mayo team have been on the slide (from a very high peak) since 2013. I think they were fantastic that year and have been gradually getting a bit worse since. If you were to accept that position for argument's sake then I think you would be inclined to put Kerry ahead of them by a touch, since I think Kerry are improving since 13/14. Beating Dublin in the league final isn't the basis of this argument, but it's not irrelevant either.

For the record I don't think this slide I see Mayo as being on is the sort of thing that would prevent them from winning the AI this year, they're basically a coin flip against both Kerry and Dublin.

danganabu · 19-05-2017 04:36PM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Your posts are so uninformed, senseless, deliberately provocative and bizzare I have gone beyond the point of being irritated by them and have entered a mentality where I enjoy them!
Christ on a bike!

Would you not prefer to engage in a normal debate/chat rather than deliberately trying to play the village 1diot here!

I suspect you may be giving our learned friend a little too much credit here!

The Talking Bread · 19-05-2017 04:37PM

danganabu wrote: »

I suspect you may be giving our learned friend a little too much credit here!

Unfortunately my faith in mankind can be naive at times

Fr Tod Umptious · 19-05-2017 04:50PM

keane2097 wrote: »

Well yeah I mean what else are we going to base it on if not recent performances. If we're going to leave out the last two games either team played against Dublin then Mayo are a team that huffed and puffed against Tyrone and lost to a Galway team that got buried by Tipperary last year, so you could have argued that their credentials were fairly shaky on that basis.

Realistically all three teams have proved pretty close to one another mostly in the last couple of years at Championship time. Dublin keep beating Mayo so are probably ahead of them, we just beat Dublin and drew with them when we should have won, so we're probably fairly close to Dublin.

I don't see anything out of whack in all of this.

Honestly I think this Mayo team have been on the slide (from a very high peak) since 2013. I think they were fantastic that year and have been gradually getting a bit worse since. If you were to accept that position for argument's sake then I think you would be inclined to put Kerry ahead of them by a touch, since I think Kerry are improving since 13/14. Beating Dublin in the league final isn't the basis of this argument, but it's not irrelevant either.

For the record I don't think this slide I see Mayo as being on is the sort of thing that would prevent them from winning the AI this year, they're basically a coin flip against both Kerry and Dublin.

I've been writing Mayo off since the AI loss in 2013

The one point win v Roscommon in 2014 looked like the start of it.

But it did not happen that year

In 2016 it looked like the Galway game was the end of it, and half time in the Fermanagh game, but they got closer than ever.

I've stopped writing them off at this stage

Barring catastrophic injuries I can't see any reason why they can't get as close to winning it this year as they did last year.

Blackjack · 19-05-2017 04:57PM

danganabu wrote: »

I suspect you may be giving our learned friend a little too much credit here!

far too much credit in bold.

keane2097 · 19-05-2017 04:58PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I've been writing Mayo off since the AI loss in 2013

The one point win v Roscommon in 2014 looked like the start of it.

But it did not happen that year

In 2016 it looked like the Galway game was the end of it, and half time in the Fermanagh game, but they got closer than ever.

I've stopped writing them off at this stage

Barring catastrophic injuries I can't see any reason why they can't get as close to winning it this year as they did last year.

It will be really interesting if Kerry and Mayo meet as expected in the SF.

I have this notion the last couple of years that Mayo were better equipped for Dublin than we were, but that if it was Mayo against Kerry we would still have the edge. It's a sort of boxing, 'styles make fights' thing.

What do you think of Dublin's trajectory at the moment? I expected them to destroy both Kerry and Mayo last year (even after the SF I thought they would destroy Mayo), but it didn't happen in either case. Their league form has been patchy this year.

It might be a case that them dropping back towards Mayo and Kerry is the most significant shift of the lot.

danganabu · 19-05-2017 04:59PM

Blackjack wrote: »

far too much credit in bold.

That's why we need a 'sarcasm' or 'irony' font/smilie

Fr Tod Umptious · 19-05-2017 05:28PM

keane2097 wrote: »

It will be really interesting if Kerry and Mayo meet as expected in the SF.

I have this notion the last couple of years that Mayo were better equipped for Dublin than we were, but that if it was Mayo against Kerry we would still have the edge. It's a sort of boxing, 'styles make fights' thing.

What do you think of Dublin's trajectory at the moment? I expected them to destroy both Kerry and Mayo last year (even after the SF I thought they would destroy Mayo), but it didn't happen in either case. Their league form has been patchy this year.

It might be a case that them dropping back towards Mayo and Kerry is the most significant shift of the lot.

Mayo Kerry will be intriguing based on what happened in 2014
Bad and all that the loss in the replay was it was only compounded by the fact that Donegal beat Dublin the next day and what you were looking at was a far less daunting prospect in a AI final than earlier expected

And as we have discussed there is nothing between them this year, mind you Mayo have a bit of work to do to get past Galway in a few weeks (if they get that far), after that they should be OK to at least the QF.

Last year I said it here a few times that I thought from the Donegal game on Dublin looked more like their 2012 form than anything else, they did not have the same bite as they had in previous years

And to be honest that has continued into the league, now whether they were willing to sacrifice the league for the sake of 3 in a row I?m not sure, but it?s something to keep in mind

seligehgit · 19-05-2017 06:19PM

Robeman wrote: »

I think you are missing the point Flynn was making

All team have their "process" which will cover match preparation and also post match activity.

At the moment Flynn refers to Mayo Squad (if working within a process) should have been

- Warming down or
- Interacting with fans

If squad was supposed to be warming down then Flynns point well made. AOS avoiding the hard work and going after personal glory.

If squad was supposed to be interacting with fans at that time then Flynn is totally out of line. AOS is to be commended for doing what he was supposed to be doing and rest of squad should be condemmed for not doing what they were supposed to do and ignoring fans

Also possible that "process" not in place at that moment and squad could do what they liked. In which case 29 decided that best thing they could do at that moment was a warm down while 1 decided to interact with fans. All were doing what they saw as most important for them. In this case nobody should be condemmed for anything but we can all have our opinions on choices made.

Oh for the love of God Jesus wept,Aidan O Shea is to be commended for signing autographs for young children,what on earth in the way of personal glory is there in that?

Apologies to all regular posters that I felt the need to reply but I can't let that go,such a mean spirited comment.For some who dislike Aidan O Shea he can't win no matter what he does.I solely judge him on what he does on the football pitch.

seligehgit · 19-05-2017 06:44PM

Robeman wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/ciaran-whelan-there-is-a-huge-wave-of-fear-coming-from-mayo-and-kerry-need-a-lot-of-things-to-fall-their-way-35731256.html

Another interesting article in the independent written by Ciaran Whelan particularly piece on Mayo. Maybe fear is not quite the correct word but he has captured the sentiment of Mayo GAA. The realisation is out there that Mayo will not win this year and that this squad and manager will never deliver. Every one will go through the motions this year but the belief is gone.

The silent majority ignored what they knew to be a wrong last year in the belief that this squad would deliver no matter what. All Ireland selection was a wake up call and their beliefs were shattered.

Even on this forum one can sense the loss of faith even among the most diehard of current squad supporters. Looking back over posts since Alll Ireland there seems to be no one declaring on this forum that this will be Mayo's year and that we will win. No one and I mean no one I have spoken to both in the county and outside of it Mayo supporter and non Mayo supporter believe that we will win.

The sooner we are out of this championship the sooner we can start rebuilding for the next multi year assault on the title. We will beat Sligo and we will beat Galway \ Roscommon after which we will lose to Kerry or Dublin. No All Ireland and a wasted year.

My critics on this site (and they are many) can switch me off and totally ignore what I am saying but this does not change the fact that the business as usual practised by Mayo Board past 60 years has failed and failed miserably, this past two years particularly when the talent was there (which is not always the case).

Firstly we need to professionalise the County Board. Before we think about next manager we need a professional Mayo GAA CEO. Someone like Willie Ruane who has had a very benificial impact on Connacht Rugby. The money is there to get someone like him. We are shelling out a ?1 million plus a year on team management \ squads and getting nothing in return. Professional management will give us a better return on our investment.

In some respects Mayo have overachieved by being No 3 this past 5\6 years due to absence of some traditional powers like Meath, Cork and Galway. Some or all of these will come back in next few years making it harder to be no 3 never mind no 1. Winning an All Ireland is going to get harder after this year for Mayo.

We have to change to get a different result. Sticking our heads in the sand or ignoring\belittling different points of view within Mayo GAA family will not progress Mayo to winning an AI.

We need to grow up and stop our annual blaming of the media, referees, unsporting fellows on other teams, and the absence of the mythical extra forward who can score regularly from play in big games. Kerry and Dublin generally win AI's every decade because they adapt, they moderise, they try new things, they attract good players and good administrators. They are professionals at winning All Irelands we are amateurs.

The Title of this Board is Mayo GAA Discussion. A discussion is the action or process of talking about something, typically in order to reach a decision or to exchange ideas: I would ask some of you what are you doing on a discussion board if the only ideas you want to exchange are those which are identical to you own.

Most regular posters as you so eloquently put it do not go around blaming the media,referees and poor sportmanship.You obviously do not read the posts here regularly.We're man enough to take our beating and accept we were beaten by a better team.

I think it's the overt negativity of your posting that gets up posters goats.With your attitude we might as well withdraw some the championship.Thank God that's not the attitude of the majority of Mayo people because if and when Sam does cross the Shannon into Ballaghderreen it will make it all the sweeter.Real supporters support their team unconditionally through thick and thin.

You are correct,Mayo supporters are realistic about our prospects this year like every other year.I am hopeful of a titanic All Ireland semi final clash with Kerry which I believe we've a fighting of winning.After that I'm not so sure or optimistic.

Your idea re the replicating the set up in Connacht Rugby with a CEO is interesting and would likely be a vast improvement on the current anachronistic administrative configuration.

But that is not where the real problem lies.The problems lie on the football pitch.The lack of quality forwards comfortable off either foot is amongst the fine margins we're lacking to get over the line,a certain softness down the centre which has coughed up crucial goals.In addition I think we need to focus to a greater degree on the quickest route to scores..quick,direct footpassing.Evidently some erroneous sideline decisions,sometimes you need that little bit of luck.

Bottom line is our footballers up to now have not been good enough to get over the line.

danganabu · 19-05-2017 07:01PM

seligehgit wrote: »

Oh for the love of God Jesus wept,Aidan O Shea is to be commended for signing autographs for young children,what on earth in the way of personal glory is there in that?

Apologies to all regular posters that I felt the need to reply but I can't let that go,such a mean spirited comment.For some who dislike Aidan O Shea he can't win no matter what he does.I solely judge him on what he does on the football pitch.

You just know for a fact that if the opposite had happened AOS would be slaughtered for refusing to sign autographs or pose for photos :rolleyes:

Coillte_Bhoy · 19-05-2017 07:11PM

Seems there were two 50 min games, he played the first one and did the warmdown etc, came on for a few minutes at the end of the second game. Flynn has made a complete tit of himself

blinding · 19-05-2017 07:36PM

danganabu wrote: »

You just know for a fact that if the opposite had happened AOS would be slaughtered for refusing to sign autographs or pose for photos :rolleyes:

He should have strapped a few kids to his back for the warm down......He just doesn't get the commitment thing........

He'd be in trouble for that too...mind....

Stoner · 19-05-2017 07:50PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote:

I think this is a stretch, Dublin certainly are a better team, but not Kerry.

I'd agree. I did agree that Mayo have an issue beating Kerry. But really why do we all think that , because Kerry beat Mayo by after a replay a couple of years ago?

I think Kerry's change of game plan would suit Mayo. It may have closed a gap with the Dubs but it has done the opposite rwt Mayo.

IMO and shared by others, Mayo are the number one team when it comes to in your face football. The closer Kerry get to Ulster style football, the more likely a Mayo win.

blowitupref · 19-05-2017 07:55PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

So by that logic it is, because in 2013 London won after a replay.

Similar as in 2013 Leitrim won 3 league games which included a win over london, while London won just one league game in 2013 just like this year.

London won that 2013 championship meeting after the replay and one the main reasons why they did was because Emlyn Mulligan went off injured after 16 minutes.

As for this Sunday i'm expecting a comfortable nine point for Mayo probably something like 1 20 to 1 11. Mayo really should be scoring 3 or 4 goals against this Sligo team that are so poor defensively under Niall Carew but Mayo going by your own league logic aren't the best for scoring goals.

Fr Tod Umptious · 19-05-2017 08:10PM

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Seems there were two 50 min games, he played the first one and did the warmdown etc, came on for a few minutes at the end of the second game. Flynn has made a complete tit of himself

That's just hilarious if it is true.

The Talking Bread · 19-05-2017 08:11PM

https://twitter.com/ColmGannon/status/865224735839461376

jr86 · 19-05-2017 09:56PM

keane2097 wrote: »

Honestly I think this Mayo team have been on the slide (from a very high peak) since 2013. I think they were fantastic that year and have been gradually getting a bit worse since.

Yeah I fully agree with this, 2013 was Mayo at their absolute peak. Obliterated everyone till the final, which I still haven't gotten over by the way. 2014 made heavy weather against poor Roscommon and Cork teams, 2015 should have been well beaten by Dublin first day out and fell away completely after the Dublin goal the second day. Last year beaten by Galway and fell over the line against an overhyped Tyrone who missed a sitter goal chance in the second half which probably would have won it

Ironically though, last year really was the best chance. It's the only time since 96 I can say Mayo were the better team in an All Ireland final (the first game).

Beffs · 19-05-2017 10:27PM

seligehgit wrote: »

Apologies to all regular posters that I felt the need to reply but I can't let that go,such a mean spirited comment.For some who dislike Aidan O Shea he can't win no matter what he does.I solely judge him on what he does on the football pitch.

Which is sweet FA in All Ireland semi finals and finals. Hence all the criticism of him. It won't end until he starts to produce the goods, the way Keegan and O'Connor do consistantly. It's how sport works.

Bernard Flynn is the Pennys version of Joe Brolly, but Tomas O'Se certainly isn't. Blaming the media for pointing out AO'S's shortcomings as a leader or a big game player, doesn't absolve him of those shortcomings.

seligehgit · 19-05-2017 10:55PM

Beffs wrote: »

Which is sweet FA in All Ireland semi finals and finals. Hence all the criticism of him. It won't end until he starts to produce the goods, the way Keegan and O'Connor do consistantly. It's how sport works.

Bernard Flynn is the Pennys version of Joe Brolly, but Tomas O'Se certainly isn't. Blaming the media for pointing out AO'S's shortcomings as a leader or a big game player, doesn't absolve him of those shortcomings.

I've pointed out Aidan O Shea's shortcomings re big game performances on numerous occasions.Who on earth has said the media aren't entitled to adjudicate on his big match performances?

This whole discussion kicked off about Bernard Flynn criticising Aidan O Shea for daring to sign a few autograph for kids whilst his colleagues were warming down.

Some people have an issue with Aidan O Shea outside of the fact that he has not brought that big match day performance,they seem to really dislike him.

km79 · 19-05-2017 11:10PM

Beffs wrote: »

Which is sweet FA in All Ireland semi finals and finals. Hence all the criticism of him. It won't end until he starts to produce the goods, the way Keegan and O'Connor do consistantly. It's how sport works.

Bernard Flynn is the Pennys version of Joe Brolly, but Tomas O'Se certainly isn't. Blaming the media for pointing out AO'S's shortcomings as a leader or a big game player, doesn't absolve him of those shortcomings.

I am one of cillians biggest fans
But he has not produced anymore consistently than O shea in finals and arguably semi finals
Keegan yes I agree with that
Fact is mayo have lost lots of finals so very very few have produced consistently

Beffs · 19-05-2017 11:27PM

seligehgit wrote: »

I've pointed out Aidan O Shea's shortcomings re big game performances on numerous occasions.Who on earth has said the media aren't entitled to adjudicate on his big match performances?

This whole discussion kicked off about Bernard Flynn criticising Aidan O Shea for daring to sign a few autograph for kids whilst his colleagues were warming down.

Some people have an issue with Aidan O Shea outside of the fact that he has not brought that big match day performance,they seem to really dislike him.

Him, personally? No.They dislike an under performing athlete getting bigged up into something that he's not, by an adoring media and fan base, who want a hero to hang their hats on. It just doesn't sit well with a lot of people.

seligehgit · 20-05-2017 12:12AM

Beffs wrote: »

Him, personally? No.They dislike an under performing athlete getting bigged up into something that he's not, by an adoring media and fan base, who want a hero to hang their hats on. It just doesn't sit well with a lot of people.

TBH I believe with some it is personal,there can be quite a bit of jealousy around an inter county footballer with all the so called prestige and advantages same can offer.

People can't have it both ways,he's bigged up by the media yet the one of the most criticised footballers in the country.The so called adoring media are the same media who tear strips off of him.I'm not sure if you live in Mayo but there is plenty of the so called fan base who would'nt be his biggest fan to put it at it's most diplomatic.

The rest,well they're the hard core fan base who recognise the sacrifices that our amateur inter county footballers put in for little real reward.Training multipile times a week hail,rain or snow,commuting oftentime long distances to same,enduring injuries that will affect their quality of life in later years,family,work and social life restrictions.All in an as yet unsuccessful quest for Sam Maguire and a Celtic Cross medal whilst trying to end the suffering of a largely supportive fanbase.So whence Aidan O Shea starts getting a salary I'll be coming down on him with a ton of bricks,whilst he's an amateur and I'm a keyboard warrior who would not be fit to lace his boots I think be a tad more circumspect in my criticism of the man.

So forgive me if I get a little antsy about an article criticising a player for daring to make a few young supporters day.

I saw it in today's Mayo Advertiser,great news Cillian O Connor is now back working in the county,one less player with a long commute from the capital.

Stoner · 20-05-2017 01:05AM

km79 wrote:

I am one of cillians biggest fans But he has not produced anymore consistently than O shea in finals and arguably semi finals Keegan yes I agree with that Fact is mayo have lost lots of finals so very very few have produced consistently

The difference is Keegan usually concentrates on looking after one man. He'll also get on the end of a move for the odd goal, Cillian while a reasonable forward from play can be kept reasonably quite, he'll have good days mostly he scores from frees some of which he wins himself.

But in AOSs defense no teams double up on Cillian or Keegan, they do with AOS. So arguably he's taking two defenders attention in big profile games where he's in the forward line.

Teams go out of their way to keep him quiet, it doesn't help him that some of the very willing forwards around him simply can't score so this brings the focus on him even more.

jr86 · 20-05-2017 07:42AM

Bar the Dublin saga in 2015 when has oshea actually not "delivered" in a semi?

And even then he was played out of position and doubled up on as Stoner alluded to

It's a little pathetic this personal vendetta people have against someone they don't even know personally. These people must really have no lives

jr86 · 20-05-2017 07:43AM

Stoner wrote: »

The difference is Keegan usually concentrates on looking after one man. He'll also get on the end of a move for the odd goal, Cillian while a reasonable forward from play can be kept reasonably quite, he'll have good days mostly he scores from frees some of which he wins himself.

But in AOSs defense no teams double up on Cillian or Keegan, they do with AOS. So arguably he's taking two defenders attention in big profile games where he's in the forward line.

Teams go out of their way to keep him quiet, it doesn't help him that some of the very willing forwards around him simply can't score so this brings the focus on him even more.

Fantastic post.

Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

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