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Update on the Quays cycle route

124

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  • #92
    Corca Baiscinn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 643 ✭✭✭Corca Baiscinn


    AlanG wrote: »
    Yes for the convention center but certainly not for the Point - nearly everyone I know realises you have little chance of getting home from the Point on public transport so they get a lift or drive. Its all well and good waiting around for a Luas back to town but when you get there most buses and trains have stopped running. This needs to be sorted out first. Last train to Blanchardstown and maynooth is 11:10, on sunday its 8:45. You would be mad to rely on public transport to get home.
    Regarding the convention center they also have to consider exhibitors and the key decision makers in business who generally arrive by car or van, without them there are no conventions.
    I would love to see most of the original plan implemented but they need to increase public transport frequency first. Not everyone lives within easy cycling distance of town.

    Think you're right re need for better PT in particular at night. if I lived in Maynooth I'd drive to Point too as Luas to Red cow is very slow and then I'd still have to drive. But the point is neither Option 7 of the Liffey Cycle Route nor the original plan to ban cars from going straight from Bachelor's Walk to Eden Quay would prevent cars accessing the Point, they would just have to take a diversion to do so. Ditto Convention Centre re set up etc. As Oivia Kelly says in her piece in today's IT DCC is obsessed with trying to keep everybody happy but it's not going to work


  • #93
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    PPC wrote: »
    What if the route was bus only during rush hours as it is on College Green? Even 0700-1900 would be a nice compromise for the Point.

    Not bus only; it is the government's stated intention to move a mass of people on to bikes for shorter journeys. Cutting off bike access during rush hour would cut off access to most bike commuters.


  • #94
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 53,222 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    one point ciaran cuffe made a couple of times today was about people driving into free parking spaces in the city centre (something which pat kenny did not pick up on) - i can't remember if he specifically said civil servants.
    has this ever been quantified?


  • #95
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    one point ciaran cuffe made a couple of times today was about people driving into free parking spaces in the city centre (something which pat kenny did not pick up on) - i can't remember if he specifically said civil servants.
    has this ever been quantified?

    There was a brief row in 2012 about this

    http://www.thejournal.ie/parking-levy-department-of-finance-budget-public-service-opw-427408-Apr2012/
    Government paying €10m a year on parking for public servants
    OPW says that renting a Dublin parking space costs the state an average €2,428 a year.

    Apr 24th 2012
    CORRESPONDENCE FROM from the OPW to the Public Accounts Committee last week showed that the government owns 9,479 parking spaces, of which 3,291 are in Dublin and the remaining 6,188 are “regional owned”.
    The document also shows that state rented 2,967 spaces in Dublin in February 2012, at an average cost per space of €2,428 a year.
    The OPW says these spaces carry an annual cost of €7.2 million. A further 1,608 spaces are being leased by the government outside of Dublin at an average cost per space of €710 and an annual cost of €1.14 million, bringing the total annual bill for parking space leasing to €8.34 million.
    However, the OPW also notes that it estimates that a further €2 million a year is spent on car parking costs
    (snip)

    Going back further, to 2008:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/civil-service-parking-ban-in-city-urged-1.1267620
    Civil service parking ban in city urged
    Mon, Jun 16, 2008
    Fiona Gartland

    SOME 60 per cent of cars parked in Dublin city centre’s shopping districts belong to civil servants, according to a study carried out by the Dublin City Business Association (DCBA).
    (snip)
    Tom Coffey, CEO of DCBA says traffic problems in the city centre would be solved if civil servants left their cars behind.


  • #96
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,352 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    AlanG wrote: »
    Yes for the convention center but certainly not for the Point

    A friend suffered a nasty injury when her bike was interfered with while locked to a lamppost at the Convention Centre. There is no provision for bike parking at that recently built venue - should have been a planning requirement.

    For Maynooth, the last 66 is 23.20 and a Nitelink runs on Friday and Saturday.


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  • #97
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,774 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    What's Maynooth or any suburban location for that matter, got to do with the discussion of a revised traffic plan / cycle lane for the North Quays?


  • #98
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,461 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I assume the assumption is those without direct public transport links. drive. Those will be who is effected by the reduced car capacity on the quays.


  • #99
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,461 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I mainly use the train and a lot of the time people struggle to get standing room on it. No way could it handle any sort of increased demand.


  • #100
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Again from five years ago - can't find anyone writing about the public service parking spaces this year

    https://www.joe.ie/uncategorized/government-spends-e10m-on-parking-spaces-35257
    Anyway, according to data that was sent to the Public Accounts Committee by the Office of Public Works, the State already owns a decent 9,500 parking spaces. However, the Government has said that this number is not enough, so to remedy the problem, 2,967 spaces are being rented in Dublin at a cost of €2,428 EACH.

    Wow. Forget the car – for that amount of money you could just pay someone to carry you to work. You’d get there without any strenuous effort on your part and you wouldn’t be doing any damage to the environment with all those deadly CO2 emissions.

    The State is also planning to rent another 1,608 parking spaces in various other parts of the country at a cost of €710 each.

    If these plans go forward, the total bill will be in the €8.34million range. Another €2million is reportedly set aside to improve already-existing parking facilities.

    Again, that’s a LOT of money on parking.


  • #101
    PPC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭PPC


    Chuchote wrote: »
    Not bus only; it is the government's stated intention to move a mass of people on to bikes for shorter journeys. Cutting off bike access during rush hour would cut off access to most bike commuters.

    I was just talking about motorised vehicles, as per College Green.
    Cyclists would continue as normal.


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  • #102
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 53,222 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Kaisr Sose wrote: »
    What's Maynooth or any suburban location for that matter, got to do with the discussion of a revised traffic plan / cycle lane for the North Quays?
    because that's part of the argument about who the north quays should cater to.


  • #103
    HivemindXX
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭HivemindXX


    Chuchote wrote: »
    Again from five years ago - can't find anyone writing about the public service parking spaces this year

    https://www.joe.ie/uncategorized/government-spends-e10m-on-parking-spaces-35257

    I don't really understand why this keeps being brought up. I can see why it is hard to find solid data on this 'problem'. Every private sector company I have worked for has had free parking for their employees. A lot of those have been right in the city centre. This doesn't seem like much of a scandal.


  • #104
    HivemindXX
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭HivemindXX


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    because that's part of the argument about who the north quays should cater to.

    The north quays should be kept as it is so that people who want to get home to Maynooth from the point late at night without having to use a park and ride or take a detour? Sorry, no.


  • #105
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 53,222 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    exactly. but it plays into the hands of the point depot. it strengthens their hand - whether you agree with them on it or not - when their customers are legitimately able to claim that PT is not a viable (or not as viable an) option for them, so they have to drive.


  • #106
    Corca Baiscinn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 643 ✭✭✭Corca Baiscinn


    HivemindXX wrote: »
    I don't really understand why this keeps being brought up. I can see why it is hard to find solid data on this 'problem'. Every private sector company I have worked for has had free parking for their employees. A lot of those have been right in the city centre. This doesn't seem like much of a scandal.

    I think there is a difference between private companies providing free parking and Government Departments doing the same.
    The difference is particularly acute just now. The Government already had policies (Smarter Travel 2009) that are supposedly aimed at changing travel behaviour in urban areas to favour public transport and active travel. Not only that, but since the passing of the Climate Bill in December 2015 and ratification of the Paris Agreement in November 2016 it has a legal obligation to reduce emissions or face substantial fines from the EU. The Draft Climate Mitigation Bill was published on March 15th and Minister Naughten said on RTE this am that the actual bill will be published in the next few weeks. We are legally obliged to have it enacted by mid-June.
    The Draft said that LONG-TERM there was a need for a National Parking Policy so I guess those Civil Servants and Car-Park owners are safe for a while yet but there is certainly a contradiction between saying on one hand, "Yes , we must reduce CO2 emissions" and on the other hand saying "of course we're happy to pay €X million per annum for staff parking". That's, leaving out the fact that thee are also Gov policies on air-pollution!


  • #107
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    HivemindXX wrote: »
    I don't really understand why this keeps being brought up. I can see why it is hard to find solid data on this 'problem'. Every private sector company I have worked for has had free parking for their employees. A lot of those have been right in the city centre. This doesn't seem like much of a scandal.

    I've never worked for a private company with free parking, at least not in Dublin city centre.


  • #108
    mr spuckler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,127 ✭✭✭mr spuckler


    Chuchote wrote: »
    I've never worked for a private company with free parking, at least not in Dublin city centre.

    i currently do and would get a free parking space if i requested it. it was also the case in my prior workplace. most of the people who currently have them live within an easy public transport commute with a couple pretty much following the luas route by car...


  • #109
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    And it's not taxed as Benefit-in-Kind?


  • #110
    mr spuckler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,127 ✭✭✭mr spuckler


    I just asked someone who has one and was told no.


  • #111
    HivemindXX
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭HivemindXX


    Chuchote wrote: »
    I've never worked for a private company with free parking, at least not in Dublin city centre.

    I'm surprised. Every company I have worked for has had free parking and lots of it. This is not to say that they have enough parking for every employee but certainly for a large percentage if not all of them. I guess not every civil servant gets a space either. Who do you think parks in all those spaces under every office building in the city centre?


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  • #112
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    It really seems a no-brainer for a carbon action to either stop providing free parking spaces, or tax them as benefit-in-kind.


  • #113
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,774 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    because that's part of the argument about who the north quays should cater to.

    People from Maynooth that may wish to go the the NCC or Three Arena outside of peak traffic volume hours? I thought it was about providing a sustainable traffic management /flow solution for the area in general with particular emphasis is priorotising public transport? Obviously the joined up thinking approach would also be prioritising public transport infastructure updrades and improving network frequency and connectivity across the city and extended area so as to work in tandem with traffic calming measures within city. Can't see that happening anytime soon though.


  • #114
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 53,222 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i was reading about a company recently - may not have been in ireland, though - which decided to award staff who *didn't* drive in. end result is the same as charging, in a sense, but less divisive.


  • #115
    Corca Baiscinn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 643 ✭✭✭Corca Baiscinn


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i was reading about a company recently - may not have been in ireland, though - which decided to award staff who *didn't* drive in. end result is the same as charging, in a sense, but less divisive.

    There are also countries including Belgium afaik which give you a km allowance for cycling as well as operating a subsidised Bike to Work scheme.


  • #116
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,774 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    Chuchote wrote: »
    And it's not taxed as Benefit-in-Kind?

    The Finance Bill of 2009 had some provision to levy of €200 on those that have parking provided by their employer in designated urban areas but it's not a success as Revenue don't know who provides parking and where the spaces are.

    Goombeen Fiscal thinking! It's totally uncollectable. I have a space but I cycle. I get the bus. I walk. I get a lift.....I work from home 3 days a week...

    http://www.revenue.ie/en/practitioner/law/bills/archive/finance-no2-bill-2008/parking-levy-guidance.html


  • #117
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 53,222 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    speaking of the carbon cost - as someone who works from home three days a week typically - i wonder where the balance lies, considering that when i work from home i've to heat a house that would otherwise not need heating, instead of going into a building which is already heated (or cooled).
    it's certainly cheaper for me to cycle into work on a cold day than to work from home.


  • #118
    Corca Baiscinn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 643 ✭✭✭Corca Baiscinn


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    speaking of the carbon cost - as someone who works from home three days a week typically - i wonder where the balance lies, considering that when i work from home i've to heat a house that would otherwise not need heating, instead of going into a building which is already heated (or cooled).
    it's certainly cheaper for me to cycle into work on a cold day than to work from home.

    Interesting point especially as you would cycle to work so no CO2 on way!: But you don't really heat the whole house though, do you ? Have you heating zones, loads of insulation and a decent BER?


  • #119
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Deedsie wrote: »
    Can you imagine the uproar? Some civil servants where I work have free parking. I work for a private company on the same site.

    Meanwhile the world is crumbling under our feet because of carbon overproduction…


  • #120
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 53,222 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Corca Baiscinn wrote: »
    Have you heating zones, loads of insulation and a decent BER?
    heh. i have 11 zones. for a 50s house, insulation is reaonably good (we bought it off a chap who worked for the SEAI) - BER i can take or leave. total heating bill over the last year was approx. €700.

    problem for me is that the room i use when working from home is probably the one with the worst insulation.


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  • #121
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,507 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Can't those poor souls from Maynooth use the port tunnel if they really must drive? It operates well below capacity at night.


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