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Licensee query about landlord wanting money for guest

  • 20-03-2017 07:20PM
    #1
    Ciwaun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1 ✭


    Hi everyone, so I am currently living in a shared accommodation with 11 people (I know seems a lot) with 1 of them being the landlord. I am not sure my exact rights in this situation as the landlord lives in their own section of the house which has its own kitchen, sitting room, bedrooms etc. so is completely separate to our own section of the house. She has her own entrance to her side of the house so doesnt use the front door and we are only connected via a door she locks in the hallway. I am just mentioning this as I know there is different rights for rented accommodation where the landlord is living elsewhere and shared accommodation with the landlord but since we have our own side of the house she doesnt use what sort of rights do I have in this situation? I ask this as I recently had someone stay a week and leave but now the landlord is asking for money for their stay here as it was for a week. I am not sure if I have to pay or not in this situation as they were a guest here to me which the other housemates had no problem with. I do not have a written contract with her but she seems to try and cause problems to get more money. I was wondering does anyone know my rights in this situation or if anyone was ever in a similar situation before? Thank you to anyone who knows :)
    Tagged:


Comments

  • #2
    ED E
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,094 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    You're a licensee not a tenant as you describe it, giving severely reduced rights. Probably worth just paying up to save the hassle it will cause you especially if she's on site.


  • #3
    Buddy74
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 233 ✭✭Buddy74


    Maybe its better to check with http://www.threshold.ie/ - they will give the best direction to this issue. But to be honest I'd say if you have no contract in place the Landlord will probably win out.


  • #4
    Milly33
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,663 ✭✭✭Milly33


    Did this person stay in your own room etc, in that case I would think the landlord is chancing their arms.. I would ask the landlord to meet for a chat and state your case, and then ask the landlord for any future issues like this could they do up a lease or some agreements that should be kept in place...


  • #5
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,093 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    Might be worth asking here

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=633


  • #6
    Rodin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    Ciwaun wrote: »
    Hi everyone, so I am currently living in a shared accommodation with 11 people (I know seems a lot) with 1 of them being the landlord. I am not sure my exact rights in this situation as the landlord lives in their own section of the house which has its own kitchen, sitting room, bedrooms etc. so is completely separate to our own section of the house. She has her own entrance to her side of the house so doesnt use the front door and we are only connected via a door she locks in the hallway. I am just mentioning this as I know there is different rights for rented accommodation where the landlord is living elsewhere and shared accommodation with the landlord but since we have our own side of the house she doesnt use what sort of rights do I have in this situation? I ask this as I recently had someone stay a week and leave but now the landlord is asking for money for their stay here as it was for a week. I am not sure if I have to pay or not in this situation as they were a guest here to me which the other housemates had no problem with. I do not have a written contract with her but she seems to try and cause problems to get more money. I was wondering does anyone know my rights in this situation or if anyone was ever in a similar situation before? Thank you to anyone who knows :)

    Ask for a receipt so you can check the appropriate taxes are going to Revenue.


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  • #7
    James 007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 961 ✭✭✭James 007


    Milly33 wrote: »
    Did this person stay in your own room etc, in that case I would think the landlord is chancing their arms.. I would ask the landlord to meet for a chat and state your case, and then ask the landlord for any future issues like this could they do up a lease or some agreements that should be kept in place...

    Is there not a lease already with the tenant.
    Did the tenant ask if the landlord if they could have a guest to stay over.
    Perhaps the tenant, 'for any future issues like this' should ask the landlord first. Was the tenant 'chancing their arms' in order to avoid a guest paying for a hostel/hotel in the area.


  • #8
    Milly33
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,663 ✭✭✭Milly33


    The tenant is paying rent, so he should be allowed to have someone stay over.. In fairness if you had a guest coming to visit your house and they were staying a while would you not say they could stay with you... Unless it was cleary pointed out and written in the lease agreement that the tenant is not allowed to have people stay overnight, or if they do they will have to pay extra, then tis rubbish


  • #9
    biko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,060 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Galway county > Accommodation


  • #10
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,242 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Rodin wrote: »
    Ask for a receipt so you can check the appropriate taxes are going to Revenue.

    Can we just stop with this, every single thread that somebody has an issue with a landlord no matter how big or small and people are out saying 'call revenue' 'call revenue' like every landlord is a tax evading slumlord. If it was that rampant, revenue would audit a lot more of them.


  • #11
    JuliusCaesar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,887 ✭✭✭JuliusCaesar


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Can we just stop with this, every single thread that somebody has an issue with a landlord no matter how big or small and people are out saying 'call revenue' 'call revenue' like every landlord is a tax evading slumlord. If it was that rampant, revenue would audit a lot more of them.

    You have to admit that a landlady living in a house with ELEVEN tenants/licencees, with a locked door between them sounds well dodgy and reminiscent of recent headlines.

    Firstly IF this is a licencee situation, then she must surely (with ELEVEN licencees) be earning well over the 14k per annum allowed for it to be tax free. Even if it is tax free, it needs to be declared to Revenue. If she earns over the 14k, then she should be paying tax.

    Secondly, IF they are tenants, then they should have a contract which state the requirements - the duties and responsibilities of both tenant and landlady - very clearly. If they are tenants, and she is declaring the income to the Revenue, then she has nothing to fear - she should just supply them each with a contract.



    Anyone who is paying their tax has nothing to fear from the Revenue.



    PS They can only audit landlords who they know of. People who are not declaring their income.... how can Revenue find them??


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  • #12
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,773 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Rodin wrote: »
    Ask for a receipt so you can check the appropriate taxes are going to Revenue.

    Do you think revenue will just hold the line and get back to you if you ring them up and say, I gave my landlady a 100euro extra did she declare it.

    If absolutely nothing else the LL does not need to make a return on money earned this year until the end of the year so they wouldn't even be due to pay taxes yet.

    It's like primary school reading some of this run to revenue stuff, "teacher teacher I got called a name"
    Milly33 wrote: »
    The tenant is paying rent, so he should be allowed to have someone stay over.. In fairness if you had a guest coming to visit your house and they were staying a while would you not say they could stay with you... Unless it was cleary pointed out and written in the lease agreement that the tenant is not allowed to have people stay overnight, or if they do they will have to pay extra, then tis rubbish

    The op is a licensee and therefore is only allowed do what the homeowner allows. There is no entitlement to have someone stay over.


  • #13
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,811 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Rodin wrote: »
    Ask for a receipt so you can check the appropriate taxes are going to Revenue.

    How exactly would getting a receipt enable you to do that?

    Answer: it wouldn't, and is irrelevant to the OP's question.


  • #14
    the_syco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,308 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    James 007 wrote: »
    Is there not a lease already with the tenant.
    OP is not a tenant, landlord doesn't need to give the OP a lease.
    Rodin wrote: »
    Ask for a receipt so you can check the appropriate taxes are going to Revenue.
    The landlord could just decide to boot the OP out on a whim. The OP has to pick their battles, and that's not one of them.


  • #15
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,050 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    the_syco wrote: »
    OP is not a tenant, landlord doesn't need to give the OP a lease.


    The landlord could just decide to boot the OP out on a whim. The OP has to pick their battles, and that's not one of them.

    O/p is a tenant. There is a separate dwelling. O/p should complain to the RTB and get the place registered. After that she should look for the money back.


  • #16
    El Tarangu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭El Tarangu


    JuliusCaesar wrote: »


    PS They can only audit landlords who they know of. People who are not declaring their income.... how can Revenue find them??


    Just on this point - unless the licencees/tenants are paying in cash, revenue will know about it. If you have several thousand euro a month being lodged to your account that isn't obviously a salary, revenue will definitely be getting in touch with you.


  • #17
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,773 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    O/p is a tenant. There is a separate dwelling. O/p should complain to the RTB and get the place registered. After that she should look for the money back.

    The op is living under the same roof as the LL with an internal access door which the LL I assume goes in and out of regularly. The op is not a tenant.

    It like saying a person is a tenant of their bedroom because it's behind a door.
    El Tarangu wrote: »
    Just on this point - unless the licencees/tenants are paying in cash, revenue will know about it. If you have several thousand euro a month being lodged to your account that isn't obviously a salary, revenue will definitely be getting in touch with you.

    Well it actually may take a random audit (or being reported) for revenue to know. Revenue don't trawl through bank accounts they don't have time nor would they be allowed to id imagine. The bank won't alert revenue unless its large cash lodgements so unless you are selected for audit revenue may not find out. Just to say I'm not condoning it or saying you will get away with it, in fact lodging undeclared money is stupid but revenue don't just monitor people's bank accounts either.


  • #18
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,050 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Mike Panicky Zen wrote: »
    The op is living under the same roof as the LL with an internal access door which the LL I assume goes in and out of regularly. The op is not a tenant.

    It like saying a person is a tenant of their bedroom because it's behind a door.



    Well it actually may take a random audit (or being reported) for revenue to know. Revenue don't trawl through bank accounts they don't have time nor would they be allowed to id imagine. The bank won't alert revenue unless its large cash lodgements so unless you are selected for audit revenue may not find out. Just to say I'm not condoning it or saying you will get away with it, in fact lodging undeclared money is stupid but revenue don't just monitor people's bank accounts either.

    There are 2 dwellings under one roof. Door or no door the second dwelling should be registered. A landlord keeps a key of the door of every dwelling which is let, whether or not they live under the same roof. It doesn't make it any less of a dwelling. There are cases where a bedroom has been held to be a dwelling.


  • #19
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,773 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    There are 2 dwellings under one roof. Door or no door the second dwelling should be registered. A landlord keeps a key of the door of every dwelling which is let, whether or not they live under the same roof. It doesn't make it any less of a dwelling. There are cases where a bedroom has been held to be a dwelling.

    There is a big difference between a LL having the key to the house where a tenant renting and having an internal door. A internal door makes it the same dwelling, same address you can be sure, most likely the same esb and gas supply etc etc. You cannot just stand at one end of a house and say its a separate dwelling to the other end of the house because there is a door in the hall way.

    The op is living in the same house as the LL simple as that.


  • #20
    the_syco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,308 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    O/p is a tenant. There is a separate dwelling.
    Ciwaun wrote: »
    Hi everyone, so I am currently living in a shared accommodation with 11 people (I know seems a lot) with 1 of them being the landlord. I am not sure my exact rights in this situation as the landlord lives in their own section of the house which has its own kitchen, sitting room, bedrooms etc. so is completely separate to our own section of the house. She has her own entrance to her side of the house so doesnt use the front door and we are only connected via a door she locks in the hallway.
    No. Although the landlord has their rooms, it is connected to the OP's shared area via an internal door, thus not separate dwelling. Thus, the OP is a licensee.


  • #21
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,050 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    the_syco wrote: »
    No. Although the landlord has their rooms, it is connected to the OP's shared area via an internal door, thus not separate dwelling. Thus, the OP is a licensee.

    Two kitchens means two dwellings. If the o/p can't go into the other dwelling, which he can't then the LL lives in a separate dwelling. O/P should complain to the RTB.


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  • #22
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,773 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    Two kitchens means two dwellings. If the o/p can't go into the other dwelling, which he can't then the LL lives in a separate dwelling. O/P should complain to the RTB.

    Two kitchens most certainly does not mean two dwellings. The op being able to enter the other side of the house is irrelevant, the owner can enter their side as they please, it's the same house no amount of saying it isn't will change that.

    Do you think if I put a cooker in my bedroom if living with an home owner that I can claim I now have a seperate dwelling?


  • #23
    JuliusCaesar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,887 ✭✭✭JuliusCaesar


    El Tarangu wrote: »
    Just on this point - unless the licencees/tenants are paying in cash, revenue will know about it. If you have several thousand euro a month being lodged to your account that isn't obviously a salary, revenue will definitely be getting in touch with you.

    Strangely enough, Revenue do NOT know this.

    It would be a total infringement of any privacy laws for the bank to pass on your account information to Revenue. Do you seriously think the banks are writing to Revenue saying - "suspicious income on this account"? It could be anything - your brother repaying a loan you gave hime a few years ago, your cousin buying you out of a house you both inherited, by instalments. The bank neither know nor care UNLESS they suspect you're a criminal... and are lodging your ill-gotten gains from robbing banks into their bank. I'm joking, I think there's some threshold of lodging above a certain high amount.


    Anyway, that's right off-topic.

    I would advise the OP to disregard any advice here as none of us seems to know for sure or be an expert.

    OP, take yourself off to the local Citizen's Advice - you don't actually have to be an Irish citizen :-) - and get some proper advice. The posts here might give you a clue as to what questions to ask.


  • #24
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    JuliusCaesar wrote: »
    Strangely enough, Revenue do NOT know this.

    It would be a total infringement of any privacy laws for the bank to pass on your account information to Revenue. Do you seriously think the banks are writing to Revenue saying - "suspicious income on this account"? It could be anything - your brother repaying a loan you gave hime a few years ago, your cousin buying you out of a house you both inherited, by instalments. The bank neither know nor care UNLESS they suspect you're a criminal... and are lodging your ill-gotten gains from robbing banks into their bank. I'm joking, I think there's some threshold of lodging above a certain high amount.


    Anyway, that's right off-topic.

    I would advise the OP to disregard any advice here as none of us seems to know for sure or be an expert.

    OP, take yourself off to the local Citizen's Advice - you don't actually have to be an Irish citizen :-) - and get some proper advice. The posts here might give you a clue as to what questions to ask.

    They have to ask the source of any lodgement over €1500. They also have to report suspicious patterns. Revenue can make a bank give account details on anyone.


  • #25
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,773 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    They have to ask the source of any lodgement over €1500. They also have to report suspicious patterns. Revenue can make a bank give account details on anyone.

    If its bank transfer then they know the source, it's only cash lodgements that arise suspicion but it's even with cash it will take more than 1500, that's a very small amount of money and a bank wouldn't think twice about it.


  • #26
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    Mike Panicky Zen wrote: »
    If its bank transfer then they know the source, it's only cash lodgements that arise suspicion but it's even with cash it will take more than 1500, that's a very small amount of money and a bank wouldn't think twice about it.

    Banks don't think. I have been questioned about 2k in cash.


  • #27
    stimpson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,707 ✭✭✭stimpson


    Mike Panicky Zen wrote: »
    Two kitchens most certainly does not mean two dwellings. The op being able to enter the other side of the house is irrelevant, the owner can enter their side as they please, it's the same house no amount of saying it isn't will change that.

    Do you think if I put a cooker in my bedroom if living with an home owner that I can claim I now have a seperate dwelling?

    From the actual Rent a Room scheme rules on revenue.ie
    4.2 Self-contained unit
    It is not possible to let an entire residence because the room or rooms that are let must form part of the residence and the residence must be occupied by the individual receiving the rent as his/her sole or main residence. The room or rooms can comprise a self-contained unit within the residence such as a basement flat or a converted garage attached to the residence. However, a self-contained unit that is adjacent to the residence but not actually attached to it cannot qualify for the relief.


  • #28
    El Tarangu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭El Tarangu


    JuliusCaesar wrote: »
    Strangely enough, Revenue do NOT know this.

    It would be a total infringement of any privacy laws for the bank to pass on your account information to Revenue. Do you seriously think the banks are writing to Revenue saying - "suspicious income on this account"?


    It has happened to me personally, for a fairly small sum of money.

    If OP's landlord is receiving 11 lodgements each month of several hundred euro from 11 different personal accounts, Revenue will know about it. Rendering one poster's suggestion about contacting the taxman moot.


  • #29
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,773 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    El Tarangu wrote: »
    It has happened to me personally, for a fairly small sum of money.

    If OP's landlord is receiving 11 lodgements each month of several hundred euro from 11 different personal accounts, Revenue will know about it. Rendering one poster's suggestion about contacting the taxman moot.

    They won't know unless they audit the person. There is no other mechanism for them to find out. Money transfers are traceable so the bank don't need to get involved in finding out the source nor are they obliged to notify revenue that's only for cash.

    If revenue were getting involved for every person who has sums of money being transferred to their account regularly they would need half the country working for them.


  • #30
    PMBC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭PMBC


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    There are 2 dwellings under one roof. Door or no door the second dwelling should be registered. A landlord keeps a key of the door of every dwelling which is let, whether or not they live under the same roof. It doesn't make it any less of a dwelling. There are cases where a bedroom has been held to be a dwelling.

    You could also check the planning status of the accommodation, online or at the planning offices - is there permission for two separate units, is one a granny flat, garage converted without Planning Permission? The big concern with this sort of arrangement is safety in the event of a fire.
    Agree with other replies - take the hit/discuss and/or with your cohabitants


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