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Rescue 116 Crash at Blackrock, Co Mayo(Mod note in post 1)

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Comments

  • #2132
    Gaoth Laidir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,261 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    elastico wrote: »
    As speculation is not allowed am I right in saying all of the below is pretty much factual.

    1/ Shortly after leaving Dublin tracking showed R116 proceeded pretty much in a straight line all the way to blackrock lighthouse and helipad

    2/ Tracking does not show it at any point in its journey proceeding in straight line towards blacksod lighthouse and helipad

    It flew in the general direction of Blacksod Bay, flying close to Blacksod itself and then on to BlackRock. The notion that its flight set out only for Blackrock right from Dublin is wrong imo. It's a fairly straight path alright but it just as much flew towards Blacksod as anywhere else.


  • #2133
    prunudo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,105 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Ocean Challenger looks to be as close to Blackrock as I've seen on marine traffic. Dive boat also on scene with Granuaile still to the north. Hopefully the conditions are allowing a lift.


  • #2134
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    jackboy wrote: »
    Assumptions have no place in an investigation. It's all about building facts until the cause is proven or not. Unfortunately sometimes the cause is never found.

    we know that the initial pronouncement regarding mechanical conditions is not an assumption. what we dont know is what else therefore was a or the contributing factor or factors

    to suggest that given the ability the recover the craft , the telemetry data and cockpit voice recorder that we will not get an answer in this situation beggars belief


  • #2135
    Gadgetman496
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,455 ✭✭✭Gadgetman496


    359d792497.PNG

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



  • #2136
    elastico
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭elastico


    Gaoth Laidir wrote: »
    It flew in the general direction of Blacksod Bay, flying close to Blacksod itself and then on to BlackRock. The notion that its flight set out only for Blackrock right from Dublin is wrong imo. It's a fairly straight path alright but it just as much flew towards Blacksod as anywhere else.

    The facts speak for themselves. Tracking shows a direct path towards blackrock all the way.

    There is nothing "notional" about it.


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  • #2137
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Gaoth Laidir wrote: »
    It flew in the general direction of Blacksod Bay, flying close to Blacksod itself and then on to BlackRock. The notion that its flight set out only for Blackrock right from Dublin is wrong imo. It's a fairly straight path alright but it just as much flew towards Blacksod as anywhere else.

    Thats not the case. The course as has been previously setup , brought them directly to Blackrock, and south of Blacksod. IN this era of precise navigation, this was either the intended destination or something was seriously amiss


  • #2138
    ScrewYou
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭ScrewYou


    BoatMad wrote: »
    Thats not the case. The course as has been previously setup , brought them directly to Blackrock, and south of Blacksod. IN this era of precise navigation, this was either the intended destination or something was seriously amiss

    It was posted earlier, but discarded by the mods.
    A standard radar let down to Blacksod follows the exact pattern that R116 performed.


  • #2139
    prunudo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,105 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Lifting equipment attached to wreckage of Rescue 116
    http://www.rte.ie/news/connacht/2017/0402/864539-helicopter-rescue-116/

    Interesting wording at end of report saying they'll focus on human behaviour, navigational equipment and procedural issues.


  • #2140
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    jvan wrote: »
    Ocean Challenger looks to be as close to Blackrock as I've seen on marine traffic. Dive boat also on scene with Granuaile still to the north. Hopefully the conditions are allowing a lift.

    Looking like a lift alright. Hopefully it'll be done today. Conditions very windy out there. :-(


  • #2141
    elastico
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭elastico


    jvan wrote: »
    Lifting equipment attached to wreckage of Rescue 116
    http://www.rte.ie/news/connacht/2017/0402/864539-helicopter-rescue-116/

    Interesting wording at end of report saying they'll focus on human behaviour, navigational equipment and procedural issues.

    Its a disgrace that the national broadcaster is now engaging in "armchair speculation" very inappropriate.


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  • #2142
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    ScrewYou wrote: »
    Head over to the Rotorheads forum on PPRuNe for some good info that isn't censored to maintain a safe space for snowflakes.

    Or P???????.ie if you want to find the kind of wild west gutterfest that the Mods are trying to avoid here.

    I haven't always agreed with the Mods on this thread. However, when I see elsewhere how bad and ugly posts can be when 'censorship' is practised with a light or no touch, I feel that in this thread, a fair balance is being achieved in a very emotion- filled environment.

    Just my 2¥ worth!


  • #2143
    smurfjed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,668 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    Elastico, not sure if you wrote that in jest, but what exactly do you want them to focus on in the investigation ?


  • #2144
    elastico
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭elastico


    TomOnBoard wrote: »
    Or P???????.ie if you want to find the kind of wild west gutterfest that the Mods are trying to avoid here.

    I haven't always agreed with the Mods on this thread. However, when I see elsewhere how bad and ugly posts can be when 'censorship' is practised with a light or no touch, I feel that in this thread, a fair balance is being achieved in a very emotion- filled environment.

    Just my 2¥ worth!

    Fair and balanced moderation is fine. What happened on this thread is a moderator decided to rule out "actions of the crew" right from the start and talk down in a very condescending fashion toward anybody he considered to be a "keyboard investigator" and for nearly 3 weeks proceeded to ban and censor anybody who didn't play along with his "alternative facts" which he constantly floated out about why the helicopter would overfly its destination by 12kms before turning back to land.


  • #2145
    elastico
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭elastico


    smurfjed wrote: »
    Elastico, not sure if you wrote that in jest, but what exactly do you want them to focus on in the investigation ?

    Yes it was written in jest!

    At this stage it seems the dogs barking in the street are discussing what actually happened and why, except on this thread thou shalt not suggest crew actions may have been involved.


  • #2146
    notharrypotter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,112 ✭✭✭notharrypotter


    From post 2141 what is a
    A standard radar let down to Blacksod


  • #2147
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    Ocean Challenger and An Gearoidin in tandem with each other are now moving east of the small island around Black Rock at a slow speed towards the Granuaile.


  • #2148
    ScrewYou
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭ScrewYou


    elastico wrote: »
    Fair and balanced moderation is fine. What happened on this thread is a moderator decided to rule out "actions of the crew" right from the start and talk down in a very condescending fashion toward anybody he considered to be a "keyboard investigator" and for nearly 3 weeks proceeded to ban and censor anybody who didn't play along with his "alternative facts" which he constantly floated out about why the helicopter would overfly its destination by 12kms before turning back to land.

    He's free to enforce his blinkered viewpoint not here, apparently.
    That's alright with me.. as long as he comes back on here and admits he was completely wrong when the facts come out (and not in the usual 37 paragraphs of waffle).

    Some how I reckon we'll be waiting a long time..


  • #2149
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72,849 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    elastico wrote: »
    Fair and balanced moderation is fine. What happened on this thread is a moderator decided to rule out "actions of the crew" right from the start and talk down in a very condescending fashion toward anybody he considered to be a "keyboard investigator" and for nearly 3 weeks proceeded to ban and censor anybody who didn't play along with his "alternative facts" which he constantly floated out about why the helicopter would overfly its destination by 12kms before turning back to land.

    There are places to discuss issues with moderation, on-thread is not one of them.

    I don't think I need to remind anyone of the rules again.

    Anyone who has issues with a specific poster can contact them by PM


  • #2150
    Means Of Escape
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,897 ✭✭✭Means Of Escape


    Most posters classed as "armchair speculators " on this thread have put forward educated proposals as to what occurred in this tragedy .

    It is worth remembering that former NTSB chief Greg Feith said that all investigators put forward theories after aircraft crashes and when the data and wreckage is gathered these intelligent theories can be either eliminated or examined further as to the cause of the crash .


  • #2151
    No Dispatch
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3 ✭No Dispatch


    TomOnBoard wrote: »
    Or P???????.ie if you want to find the kind of wild west gutterfest that the Mods are trying to avoid here.

    I haven't always agreed with the Mods on this thread. However, when I see elsewhere how bad and ugly posts can be when 'censorship' is practised with a light or no touch, I feel that in this thread, a fair balance is being achieved in a very emotion- filled environment.

    Just my 2¥ worth!

    What you've got on this thread, due to the moderation, is a list of RIP's, copy and pastes of media reports, and updates of ships positions.

    No input allowed about SAR and heli ops.


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  • #2152
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    Ocean Challnger now appears stationery close to Granuaile, in shelter north of Blackrock.


  • #2153
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Means Of Escape wrote: »
    Most posters classed as "armchair speculators " on this thread have put forward educated proposals as to what occurred in this tragedy .

    It is worth remembering that former NTSB chief Greg Feith said that all investigators put forward theories after aircraft crashes and when the data and wreckage is gathered these intelligent theories can be either eliminated or examined further as to the cause of the crash .

    Huge difference between highly qualified professional air accident investigators and people on the internet bashing their heads off a keyboard in an effort to be nearly right in one of their theories. Huge difference.


  • #2154
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    No Dispatch wrote: »
    What you've got on this thread, due to the moderation, is a list of RIP's, copy and pastes of media reports, and updates of ships positions.

    No input allowed about SAR and heli ops.

    So you say in your very first post! Well done for breaking your cherry on such a contentious topic..:D


  • #2155
    elastico
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭elastico


    Gadgetman496 wrote: »
    I was wondering if bold text means anything here at Boards (like capital letters mean shouting), or is it simply an over usage of Prosodic stress?

    Bold text means exactly what it says.

    That you have been a bold boy or girl.


  • #2156
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    No Dispatch wrote: »
    Huge difference indeed.
    But have you ever paused to think that some of the posters might know a bit more than you do?

    of course, but you're assuming that either you or they know more than I do.


  • #2157
    Christy Browne
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭Christy Browne


    No Dispatch wrote: »
    Ooohhhh, that's a paddling.

    Of course it is, and the mods won't notice a shred of irony when they hand it out.


  • #2158
    elastico
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭elastico


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Huge difference between highly qualified professional air accident investigators and people on the internet bashing their heads off a keyboard in an effort to be nearly right in one of their theories. Huge difference.

    Collectively I would say the contributors to this and other threads have more knowledge than the professional investigators involved in this one.

    I have seen commercial pilots, people involved in the S61, engineers working on S92's, UK SAR and RAF professionals, people involved in ground operations etc. etc. adding information.

    It was never a case of "one of their theories" it was always leading toward one conclusion, which even at this point I believe is classified as "armchair speculation" around here so I won't be mentioning it.

    As recently as this morning a 100% FACTUAL screenshot that I posted was deleted. How much more factual information has been deleted along the way I wonder.


  • #2159
    Gadgetman496
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,455 ✭✭✭Gadgetman496


    Would the Information they have from the black box\voice recorder indicate if any terrain proximity alarms were active?

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



  • #2160
    No Dispatch
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3 ✭No Dispatch


    elastico wrote: »
    Collectively I would say the contributors to this and other threads have more knowledge than the professional investigators involved in this one.

    I have seen commercial pilots, people involved in the S61, engineers working on S92's, UK SAR and RAF professionals, people involved in ground operations etc. etc. adding information.

    It was never a case of "one of their theories" it was always leading toward one conclusion, which even at this point I believe is classified as "armchair speculation" around here so I won't be mentioning it.

    As recently as this morning a 100% FACTUAL screenshot that I posted was deleted. How much more factual information has been deleted along the way I wonder.


    I agree.
    In fact, I'll just come out and say that this was classic CFIT.
    That may not sit well with some of the over eager censors here, but some of us woke up, smelt the coffee, and live in the real world.


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  • #2161
    CardinalJ
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭CardinalJ


    elastico wrote: »
    Collectively I would say the contributors to this and other threads have more knowledge than the professional investigators involved in this one.

    I genuinely laughed at that.

    EDIT - I'm finding it funnier as time goes on.


This discussion has been closed.
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