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Rescue 116 Crash at Blackrock, Co Mayo(Mod note in post 1)

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,454 ✭✭✭Gadgetman496


    Heard a local radio interview this morning and learned that Captain Mark Duffy lived in Athenry and worked out of Abbeyknockmoy Co Galway as a pilot for business man Declan Ganley.

    Declan had the height of respect for Mark and said he was a highly qualified and professional pilot in which he trusted his life on almost a daily basis over the two year period he worked for him before leaving to join the Coast Guard.

    He also said Mark was meticulous when it came to safety checks of the craft and systems prior to every flight and referred to all the crew of R116 by saying that anyone who flew out to see in the dead of night to save the lives of others were national heroes. Declan Ganley was en-route to Captain Duffy’s funeral when he took the interview.

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,591 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    RIP Captain Mark Duffy

    000dd641-800.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,351 ✭✭✭Cloudio9


    Heard a local radio interview this morning and learned that Captain Mark Duffy lived in Athenry and worked out of Abbeyknockmoy Co Galway as a pilot for business man Declan Ganley.

    Declan had the height of respect for Mark and said he was a highly qualified and professional pilot in which he trusted his life on almost a daily basis over the two year period he worked for him before leaving to join the Coast Guard.

    He also said Mark was meticulous when it came to safety checks of the craft and systems prior to every flight and referred to all the crew of R116 by saying that anyone who flew out to see in the dead of night to save the lives of others were national heroes. Declan Ganley was en-route to Captain Duffy’s funeral when he took the interview.

    Yes I follow him on Twitter and could see he was very upset. Thought this was quite touching: https://twitter.com/declanganley/status/841745768386035712


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 527 ✭✭✭de biz


    Mark got his first commercial flying job in Ireland with Bryan Carpenter's Westair who managed Declan Ganleys 206.
    Mark was a good operator from the outset,focussed and a pro.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,454 ✭✭✭Gadgetman496


    Plans to tilt the wreckage of Coast Guard Rescue Helicopter 116 using inflatable lifting bags are being abandoned due to inclement conditions at sea.

    Spring tides have complicated already difficult diving conditions around Blackrock Island in Co Mayo in recent days.

    Search co-ordinators now plan to lift the wreckage to the surface using a hoist over the weekend, when swells ease.

    A specially equipped boat is travelling to north Mayo to take part in the operation.

    It will be positioned directly above the aircraft, so the five-tonne wreckage can be taken from the water.

    Naval Service divers will assist in the effort, which will allow for the inspection of an area below the helicopter that has been inaccessible since the crash over two weeks ago.

    Search teams want to see if they can find any trace of the two missing crew members, Paul Ormsby and Ciarán Smith, in this location.

    The wreckage will be lifted entirely from the water and brought ashore.

    It will be assessed by the Air Accident Investigation Unit, which is charged with identifying the causes of the fatal crash.

    Naval Service divers attached specially designed lifting bags to the helicopter earlier this week but an effort to raise the wreckage in this manner proved impossible.

    Source: RTE

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,942 ✭✭✭Danbo!


    Source: RTE

    Seeing footage of the wreckage being brought ashore will be some sombre viewing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 908 ✭✭✭scuby


    The following was posted by "the skipper" magazine ...hope they can finally find the remaining crew ..


    Ocean Challenger tug has left Castletownbere to assist in recovery of #Rescue116 wreckage

    The 35 metre Ocean Challenger tug, operated by Bere Island based salvage experts Atlantic Towage & Marine, has departed Castletownbere Harbour tonight bound for Blacksod Bay to assist in the operation to recover the main wreckage of Rescue 116 and according to Marine Traffic is expected on scene over the weekend to join the Naval Diving Team currently on site..

    Search co-ordinators have indicated that they now plan to lift the wreckage to the surface using the Ocean Challenger and other vessels on scene over the weekend when swells ease.

    Naval Service divers will assist in the effort, which will allow for the inspection of an area below the helicopter that has been inaccessible since the crash over two weeks ago.

    Plans to move the wreckage of Coast Guard Rescue Helicopter 116 using inflatable lifting bags were abandoned in recent days due to the large swell conditions at sea.

    The mid sized tug will be positioned directly above the site, so the five-tonne wreckage can be taken from the water from a depth of 40 metres.

    In 2014 Atlantic Towage & Marine successfully retrieved the 4 tonne keel of the yacht Rambler 100 from a depth of 75 metres off the Fastnet Rock in similar conditions to the Rescue 116 accident site at Blackrock island..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,454 ✭✭✭Gadgetman496


    She's on her way.


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    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    I think the change in tactics is to be welcomed. It looks like a formidable machine.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,991 ✭✭✭sword1


    Granuaile is probably better suited to the recovery but the lads in the tug have the experience of this type of work.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    Tenger wrote: »
    This has been brought up a couple of times already. The sense is that CHC has a contract for 4 SAR choppers with a 5th as a reserve. Multiple crews to operate each airframe. So currently there are still 4 in the fleet. The contract will no doubt have a clause about maintaining cover after an incident like this.
    The issue that was raised previously was, as SAR S-92s are so specialised in terms of equipment/fit out a new build is probably easier/cheaper than acquiring and upgrading an inservice airframe.

    As I understand it, solely from reading stuff, effectively the service requires 5 machines to be provided, so that 4 will always (statistically) be available for 24/7 operation. The 5th machine then 'slots in' to the available machine roster if one of the 4 operational machines is taken out of service for planned maintenance or urgent repair.

    As soon as planned maintenance or urgent repair is needed on one the the current 4 machines, operational capability will be reduced to 75%, even though we need 100%. This needs to be resolved sooner rather than later.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,584 ✭✭✭✭Steve


    sword1 wrote: »
    Granuaile is probably better suited to the recovery but the lads in the tug have the experience of this type of work.

    I would agree.

    A bit confused by this tbh, the tug is not designed for lifting, just pushing / pulling ships in a harbor.

    They are not even stable in open water.

    I've been on one, I know.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    TomOnBoard wrote: »
    As I understand it, solely from reading stuff, effectively the service requires 5 machines to be provided, so that 4 will always (statistically) be available for 24/7 operation. The 5th machine then 'slots in' to the available machine roster if one of the 4 operational machines is taken out of service for planned maintenance or urgent repair.

    As soon as planned maintenance or urgent repair is needed on one the the current 4 machines, operational capability will be reduced to 75%, even though we need 100%. This needs to be resolved sooner rather than later.

    I don't think any one would even dream of arguing with this sentiment, the reality is that while the search for the missing crew is ongoing, I would hope that the relevant contract managers within the Coastguard will have been having discussions and negotiations with the management of CHC to ensure that there will be no ongoing risk to the level of service that can be provided.

    Having said that, a replacement S92 with the correct specification to take on the task is not something that is sitting on a shelf somewhere, so with the best will in the world, there is going to be a period of time when the full cover of 5 airframes will not be available. It is possible that CHC have a S92 airframe that can be moved in to cover the gap, but even if one is available, it will probably have to have retrofit work carried out to make it compatible with the rest of the fleet. I am sure that everyone involved will be doing all they can to ensure that the issue is addressed as quickly as possible.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,991 ✭✭✭sword1


    Steve wrote: »
    I would agree.

    A bit confused by this tbh, the tug is not designed for lifting, just pushing / pulling ships in a harbor.

    They are not even stable in open water.

    I've been on one, I know.

    Mainly there for there knowledge I would think. Presume they are bringing airbags, compressors up with them. Granuaile has a 20tonne crane so once it is on the surface it should be straight forward


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,584 ✭✭✭✭Steve


    sword1 wrote: »
    Mainly there for there knowledge I would think. Presume they are bringing airbags, compressors up with them. Granuaile has a 20tonne crane so once it is on the surface it should be straight forward

    Maybe, I'm sure the coordinators know best. I'm still a bit confused though - Granuaile has all the lifting equipment needed, a tug does not. The tug can pull 55,000kg horizontally but doesn't have the buoyancy to do it vertically.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    Steve wrote: »
    Maybe, I'm sure the coordinators know best. I'm still a bit confused though - Granuaile has all the lifting equipment needed, a tug does not. The tug can pull 55,000kg horizontally but doesn't have the buoyancy to do it vertically.

    Just did a bit of research there that might help. The Ocean Challenger used to be the Thrax up to February this year when it changed hands. If you look at the photo of the Thrax here ( https://www.fleetmon.com/vessels/thrax_9085209_42405/?language=en ) she seems to have a crane ahead of the deck area. Someone seems to believe that her lifting capacity is up to the required task.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    I suspect that the tug is being deployed because it has very fast acting and very powerful positioning capability that looks like it will be needed to ensure that they can stay "on station" over the wreckage regardless of what the swell and currents are doing. The impression I've gained from comments is that the Granuaile does not have the same level of station keeping ability, so putting it too close in is a risk they don't want to take.

    Totally in the area of speculation, I wonder if the Ocean Challenger will be relatively closely coupled to the Granuaile to keep her on station for the lifting, with the tug's power providing the position holding that otherwise would not be possible. Having said that, Ocean Challenger has been used previously for a similar lift, based on comments previously, so the team on site clearly believe that this option will give them a capability that is not present on site at the moment.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,454 ✭✭✭Gadgetman496


    In 2014 Atlantic Towage & Marine successfully retrieved the 4 tonne keel of the yacht Rambler 100 from a depth of 75 metres off the Fastnet Rock in similar conditions to the Rescue 116 accident site at Blackrock island..

    I'm sure they know they can lift the five-tonne wreckage of R116.

    The ROV has a fair bit of weight cut off too from earlier reports.

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,584 ✭✭✭✭Steve


    I can find out for sure but it will take a day or two, Pretty sure that crane would not be up to lifting 5000kg+ from the sea floor in open sea.

    I could be wrong, that's only my opinion.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,584 ✭✭✭✭Steve


    I suspect that the tug is being deployed because it has very fast acting and very powerful positioning capability that looks like it will be needed to ensure that they can stay "on station" over the wreckage regardless of what the swell and currents are doing. The impression I've gained from comments is that the Granuaile does not have the same level of station keeping ability, so putting it too close in is a risk they don't want to take.

    Totally in the area of speculation, I wonder if the Ocean Challenger will be relatively closely coupled to the Granuaile to keep her on station for the lifting, with the tug's power providing the position holding that otherwise would not be possible. Having said that, Ocean Challenger has been used previously for a similar lift, based on comments previously, so the team on site clearly believe that this option will give them a capability that is not present on site at the moment.
    Granuaile can keep position +/- 1-5m unaided .

    I'm guessing the tug is there to aid a ship or barge receive the wreckage and bring it ashore.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,454 ✭✭✭Gadgetman496


    Any possibility it will be used to pull the craft to a position that the Granuaile can safely lift it from?

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    The RTE-sourced report posted by Gadgetman a page ago said "It will be positioned directly above the aircraft, so the five-tonne wreckage can be taken from the water."


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭elastico


    Those are file photos of the tug. My guess is a larger crane has been placed on the deck in the meantime.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    I suspect that the tug is being deployed because it has very fast acting and very powerful positioning capability that looks like it will be needed to ensure that they can stay "on station" over the wreckage regardless of what the swell and currents are doing. The impression I've gained from comments is that the Granuaile does not have the same level of station keeping ability, so putting it too close in is a risk they don't want to take.

    Totally in the area of speculation, I wonder if the Ocean Challenger will be relatively closely coupled to the Granuaile to keep her on station for the lifting, with the tug's power providing the position holding that otherwise would not be possible. Having said that, Ocean Challenger has been used previously for a similar lift, based on comments previously, so the team on site clearly believe that this option will give them a capability that is not present on site at the moment.

    Just to clarify, earlier reports seemed to refer to the company (Atlantic Towing) having performed a similar lift previously, not the Ocean Challenger.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,454 ✭✭✭Gadgetman496


    TomOnBoard wrote: »
    Just to clarify, earlier reports seemed to refer to the company (Atlantic Towing) having performed a similar lift previously, not the Ocean Challenger.

    Atlantic Towage are the company that own the Ocean Challenger and the company that successfully performed a similar lift, so I'd imagine if they sent the Ocean Challenger to the recovery site they believe she's up to the task.

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    Atlantic Towage are the company that own the Ocean Challenger and the company that successfully performed a similar lift, so I'd imagine if they sent the Ocean Challenger to the recovery site they believe she's up to the task.

    Agreed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Boaty


    The lift is outside the capacity of the 20 tonne crane of the le Granuaile
    The helicopter weight is approx 5 tonnes, a quick Google tells me that the volume of the cabin of an S92 is roughly 24m3. 1m3 of water is 1 tonne, I'll let you do the math.

    The salvage company will have the equipment and the knowledge to get the fuselage up safely and without destroying it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,170 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    There are Dutch firms that exist solely to lift the likes of the Cost Concordia and tankers that ground themselves. Lifting it wont be a challenge for the pros.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,376 ✭✭✭mulbot


    I suspect that the tug is being deployed because it has very fast acting and very powerful positioning capability that looks like it will be needed to ensure that they can stay "on station" over the wreckage regardless of what the swell and currents are doing. The impression I've gained from comments is that the Granuaile does not have the same level of station keeping ability, so putting it too close in is a risk they don't want to take.

    Totally in the area of speculation, I wonder if the Ocean Challenger will be relatively closely coupled to the Granuaile to keep her on station for the lifting, with the tug's power providing the position holding that otherwise would not be possible. Having said that, Ocean Challenger has been used previously for a similar lift, based on comments previously, so the team on site clearly believe that this option will give them a capability that is not present on site at the moment.

    So speculation is ok on the thread now?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,261 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    Boaty wrote: »
    The lift is outside the capacity of the 20 tonne crane of the le Granuaile
    The helicopter weight is approx 5 tonnes, a quick Google tells me that the volume of the cabin of an S92 is roughly 24m3. 1m3 of water is 1 tonne, I'll let you do the math.

    The salvage company will have the equipment and the knowledge to get the fuselage up safely and without destroying it.

    Guys, I think the team know what they're doing so let's leave them at it. I thought this sort of speculation was not allowed. Just having "been on a tug" doesn't qualify someone to make a judgement on such a complicated process as this.

    Just on the 24 tonnes, they will not be lifting all of this. As the wreckage is submerged and not sealed then the water inside it will simply flow out of it during the lift. As I said before, the effect of pulling an object like this through water will be roughly a doubling of its weight. Then add a margin for extra forces due to currents, etc.


This discussion has been closed.
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