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German DTT to transition to DVB-T2 with HEVC compression

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Comments

  • #32
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    DVB-T2 needs different hardware compared to DVB-T
    On a PC that's not using a decoder in a tuner (most setups today), then you need HEVC codec support on your GPU. Very few PCs can manage H.264 / MPEG4, especially for HD, it's the GPU / Graphics card HW and driver that does the work.

    So answer is yes & no. It depends on capability of the Graphics Card and a suitable driver and HEVC codec.


  • #33
    Gerry Wicklow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,582 ✭✭✭Gerry Wicklow


    I should have said I already have a DVB-T2 tuner card and it's a high spec PC. I was more afraid HEVC would require (yet another) tuner upgrade.


  • #34
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,392 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Gerry Wicklow wrote: »
    I was more afraid HEVC would require (yet another) tuner upgrade.

    I don't think you'll have to worry about broadcast HEVC, only Germany to date have committed to using it for DTT. The UK has pretty much decided to continue using their existing standards, maybe post DD2 (7-11 yrs) and if there is a demand for more capacity then it might be a possibility but MPEG-4 is more likely as it should be in most home receivers by that time.


  • #35
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,392 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Current network operator Media Broadcast were awarded the new DVB-T2/HEVC transmission contract yesterday. Test transmissions are already underway in Berlin and Munich, in the Cologne-Bonn region from August.

    Construction of the new DVB-T2/HEVC nerwork begins in May 2016. Urban areas will be first converted. The public-service broadcasters plan to start their migration to DVB-T2 in the first quarter of 2017 and complete it by mid-2019.

    In Italy, the government has decreed that all receivers sold from Jan 1st 2017 must have on board DVB-T2/HEVC tuners even though there's no plan to switch from the current DVB-T/MPEG-4 standard.


  • #36
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,762 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    watty wrote: »
    I don't wish a future on my Grandchildren where all TV viewing is tracked and only available on broadband and nothing is "off-line".

    It is an interesting point, but I think you will find that your grand children will view live TV in much the same way I viewed my grandmothers Black & White TV when I was a kid, as an oddity.

    I look at my 5 and 2 year old nephews and all they watch is youtube and Nteflix on their moms iPad. It is all about on-demand viewing for them, no silly live TV.

    And I see that pretty widely with anyone under 30, they just don't want to sit around waiting for the show they want to watch right now. Live TV is increasingly becoming irrelevant to the new generations.

    Then you have the issue of hundreds of TV channels simply showing repeats of the same old shows (Friends, etc.) over and over again. +1 channels are completely irrelevant is this age of DVR's and on-demand. And to be honest the majority of non core channels (The E4, More4, ITV2's, etc.) are largely irrelevant and a massive waste of resources.

    If anything I think we are going to see a return to the days of a small number of core national channels (RTE, BBC, C4, etc.), showing unique live TV (sports, news, talk shows), with on-demand from Netflix, youtube, etc. for everything else.

    One or two muxes to efficiently carry these core channels seems like more then enough to me, the rest of the bandwidth can rightly be given over to mobile broadband services.

    Filling muxes with pointless +1 and repeat channels would be a massive waste of resources IMO.


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  • #37
    STB.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    Gerry Wicklow wrote: »
    I should have said I already have a DVB-T2 tuner card and it's a high spec PC. I was more afraid HEVC would require (yet another) tuner upgrade.

    Its not the tuner, its the CPU. AMD already have a x86 hardware based decoder for HEVC.

    For satellite/terrestrial/Combo boxes you would be looking for suitable hardware chips that support HEVC (eg Broadcom BCM7251). A lot of the current and recent E2 STBs wont do it. There are a few IPTV boxes emerging that support H265 (Polsky IPTV).

    There is also an IPTV/DVB-T combo - Air Ties 7410T.

    Air7410T_front.png

    and Pace (ZS4505) have a Satellite box that supports H265. It has 2GB Dual DDR3/DDR4 RAM!

    ZX4505_large.jpg


  • #38
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,392 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    The German DVB-T2/HEVC minimum receiver requirements were published just recently. It's mostly based on the Nordig receiver spec which is also the basis for the Saorview receiver specification.

    http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2015/06/08/anga-com-2015-joint-initiative-for-german-dvb-t2-rollout/


  • #39
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,392 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Europe's first DVB-T2 HEVC set-top box has been launched in Italy, the TELE System TS6800. The box will retail for €60 and incorporates media player and recording via the USB port.

    What's unusual about this is there are no immediate plans to launch DVB-T2/HEVC encoded transmissions in Italy, unlike Germany where pilot transmissions start in Spring 2016.

    In 2012 the Italian government mandated that all DTT receivers sold wholesale from Jan 1st, 2015 had to incorporate a DVB-T2/HEVC tuner with 6 months to clear old DVB-T stock in retail outlets. This was postponed last Dec and the date pushed back by 18 months to July 2016/Jan 2017.


  • #40
    STB.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    The Cush wrote: »
    Europe's first DVB-T2 HEVC set-top box has been launched in Italy, the TELE System TS6800. The box will retail for €60 and incorporates media player and recording via the USB port.

    What's unusual about this is there are no immediate plans to launch DVB-T2/HEVC encoded transmissions in Italy, unlike Germany where pilot transmissions start in Spring 2016.

    In 2012 the Italian government mandated that all DTT receivers sold wholesale from Jan 1st, 2015 had to incorporate a DVB-T2/HEVC tuner with 6 months to clear old DVB-T stock in retail outlets. This was postponed last Dec and the date pushed back by 18 months to July 2016/Jan 2017.

    1 July 2016 is the deadline when they change to the DVB-T2 spec which they plan to use. As part of that spec it includes HEVC. Tele System are first to market.

    Samsung launched new SUHD Curved TV's in May. They are the JU/JS range with DVB-T2 and DVB-S2 and support HEVC. They are not €60 like the DTT boxes. Most of the android boxes on the market have supported the HEVC codec for some time.


  • #41
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,392 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    STB. wrote: »
    1 July 2016 is the deadline when they change to the DVB-T2 spec which they plan to use.

    Their changeover to DVB-T2 may be 6 or 7 years away. The regulator recently indicated they may overshoot the planned 2020 deadline for the release of the 700MHz band.


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  • #42
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,392 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    STB. wrote: »
    Samsung launched new SUHD Curved TV's in May. They are the JU/JS range with DVB-T2 and DVB-S2 and support HEVC... Most of the android boxes on the market have supported the HEVC codec for some time.

    Did I come across somewhere that Sony also has HEVC decoding on some of their TV range, in Germany maybe? The box above is basically the first dedicated (low cost) HEVC set-top box on the European market.


  • #43
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,392 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    The worlds first DVB-T2/HEVC HD mux will begin broadcasting in Germany on 31st May next from 36 sites covering large urban areas.

    The pilot-mux will carry a mix of 6 PSB/commercial HD channels, Das Erste, ZDF, RTL, Sat.1, ProSieben and VOX for a period of 1 year. The pilot-mux will cease next spring when the full 6 mux/40-45 HD channel service starts its rollout from the initial 36 sites plus other urban sites.

    http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2016/03/22/dvb-t2-to-launch-in-germany-on-may-31/


  • #44
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,392 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    The German DVB-T2/HEVC national pilot-mux switches on tomorrow.

    The 6 most popular channels will transmit in Full HD, 1920x1080p50, although much of the source material will be upscaled. Test transmissions running for the last few weeks from certain sites indicate a video bitrate of 3-4 Mbps per channel. Mux capacity is approx. 27.5 Mbps.

    The 4 commercial channels transmit encrypted but FTV with the appropriate Freenet-TV branded receiver/CI+ Irdeto module until next spring. Once the pilot-mux switches over to a full 6 mux operation next spring viewers of the commercial channels will be required to subscribe approx. €5 per month after an initial free 3 month viewing period. A Freenet-TV CI+ module for a TV costs approx. €79 which includes the 3 month credit for next spring. The 3 Public Service muxes, carrying approx. 20 HD channels will remain FTA.

    http://www.digitalfernsehen.de/Neuer-Standard-DVB-T2-HD-nimmt-offiziellen-Pilotbetrieb-auf.139982.0.html


  • #45
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,392 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Quick parameter comparison between the German DVB-T2 pilot mux and the UK's DVB-T2 HD mux

    DVB-T2 Mux|Video|Modulation|GI|Code Rate|Bitrate Mbps
    UK|MPEG-4|256QAM|1/128|2/3|40
    Germany|HEVC|64QAM|1/16|2/3|27.6

    The Germany mux parameters are a trade-off between capacity and robust coverage. The requirement is for a minimum of indoor and portable coverage.
    The 3 public service muxes which launch next year will likely have a lower capacity, 22 Mbps, but provide for robust mobile reception. The current pilot mux parameters will likely continue for the 3 commercial muxes next year.

    The lower capacity will be compensated for by using the highly efficient HEVC codec. The coding gain is at least 50% when compared with MPEG-4, half the bitrate for the same video quality.
    The Cush wrote: »
    The 4 commercial channels transmit encrypted but FTV with the appropriate Freenet-TV branded receiver/CI+ Irdeto module until next spring. Once the pilot-mux switches over to a full 6 mux operation next spring viewers of the commercial channels will be required to subscribe approx. €5 per month after an initial free 3 month viewing period. A Freenet-TV CI+ module for a TV costs approx. €79 which includes the 3 month credit for next spring. The 3 Public Service muxes, carrying approx. 20 HD channels will remain FTA. The 3 Public Service muxes, carrying approx. 20 HD channels will remain FTA.

    March 29th 2017 is the official start date for the new DVB-T2 6 mux network.

    In conjunction with the launch of the new network the FTV period for the commercial channels ends on March 28th, from March 29th the free 3 month period begins once activated by selecting a commercial channel for viewing following which a monthly subscription will be required to continue viewing.

    http://www.presseportal.de/pm/119899/3345038
    http://www.digitalfernsehen.de/DVB-T2-HD-Weitere-Details-zu-Freenet-TV.140187.0.html


  • #46
    Impetus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,667 ✭✭✭Impetus


    The Cush wrote: »
    The German DVB-T2/HEVC national pilot-mux switches on tomorrow.

    The 6 most popular channels will transmit in Full HD, 1920x1080p50, although much of the source material will be upscaled. Test transmissions running for the last few weeks from certain sites indicate a video bitrate of 3-4 Mbps per channel. Mux capacity is approx. 27.5 Mbps.

    The 4 commercial channels transmit encrypted but FTV with the appropriate Freenet-TV branded receiver/CI+ Irdeto module until next spring. Once the pilot-mux switches over to a full 6 mux operation next spring viewers of the commercial channels will be required to subscribe approx. €5 per month after an initial free 3 month viewing period. A Freenet-TV CI+ module for a TV costs approx. €79 which includes the 3 month credit for next spring. The 3 Public Service muxes, carrying approx. 20 HD channels will remain FTA.

    http://www.digitalfernsehen.de/Neuer-Standard-DVB-T2-HD-nimmt-offiziellen-Pilotbetrieb-auf.139982.0.html

    HD is crap. 4K is decent. Can be done with new codecs using the same bandwidth as HD. 8k would be nice, but few TVs etc available. I am photographing / videoing everything in 4K or better at the moment. 4k/UHD TVs are cheap. No reason why UHD should not be available on DTT, as in France. With latest CODECs they take up the same spectrum to deliver a far better picture. It puts constrained, (high speed internet + 4K video) cable providers out of business. Roll on fiber for everybody as well as 4K and 8K. Ireland has a third world attitude towards innovation - unless it comes from a multi-national who serves a global rather than Irish market.

    Netflix 4K and youtube 4k are the only shows in town in Ireland. Even then, most Irish ISPs shape traffic to cause video buffering - exercising their monopoly, while the dumb customers and the politicians they elect stand idly by. Bowing to the new Lord Castlemain, the new bandwidth dictator, blow-in. Monopolist. Eir remains airheaded in the fiber stakes, especially in urban areas. As do their 'competitors'. Fiber is cheap to install in rural areas. Fiber is cheap to install in urban areas too, if the cost is shared among multiple providers using a single fiber connection to each house. Meanwhile RTE's feed from whatever source is appallingly poor.


  • #47
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,392 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Impetus wrote: »
    HD is crap. 4K is decent. Can be done with new codecs using the same bandwidth as HD. 8k would be nice, but few TVs etc available. I am photographing / videoing everything in 4K or better at the moment. 4k/UHD TVs are cheap. No reason why UHD should not be available on DTT, as in France. With latest CODECs they take up the same spectrum to deliver a far better picture.

    The codecs are available but the equipment to allow a rapid changeover isn't in people's homes, the spectrum isn't available without removing existing services. The UHD-1 standard, which uses the HEVC codec, hasn't been finalised yet, likely to be 2019 before manufacturers incorporate the full final standard. For 8K we're looking into the next decade with a new modulation system beyond DVB-T2 and new codecs according to industry experts.

    Germany is now launching the most advanced DTT spec network in the world but isn't considering UHD at this time. France recently transitioned it's DTT network from a mixed SD/HD, DVB-T MPEG2/4, 8 mux configuration to a mostly HD, DVB-T MPEG4, 6 mux configuration, no UHD, basically a long way from terrestrial UHD. Italy are mandating HEVC in their receivers from this year IIRC but have no plans for UHD, instead it's likely to be used to replace 700MHz spectrum capacity within the next 6 years.


  • #48
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,160 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The Cush wrote: »
    For 8K we're looking into the next decade with a new modulation system beyond DVB-T2 and new codecs according to industry experts.
    Will that even be possible I wonder? At the time that DVB-T2 was developed, it was claimed that T2 is near the Shannon limit.


  • #49
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,392 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Karsini wrote: »
    Will that even be possible I wonder?.

    This is just one of the areas the global FOBTV association of broadcasters, manufacturers, network operators, standardization organizations, research institutes and others worldwide have been working on since 2011 with the aim of developing next generation terrestrial broadcasting systems.


  • #50
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,392 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    FOBTV members, the DVB Project, published it's report on the long term vision for terrestrial broadcasting late last year. This is what the report says on a spectral efficient (physical layer) replacement for DVB-T2 and encoding efficiency beyond HEVC.

    https://www.dvb.org/resources/public/whitepapers/cm1621r1_sb2333r1_long-term-vision-for-terrestrial-broadcast.pdf
    With respect to the physical layer, DVB-­‐NGH, a recent DVB-­‐TM-­‐NGT Study Mission and ATSC 3.0 have all shown that after DVB-­‐T2 significant steps can still be made in terms of spectral efficiency. In the NGT Study Mission Report the related technologies were separated into two complexity profiles, a Low and a Higher Complexity Profile (LCP/HCP).

    - The achievable gains between 14% and 96% with the Low Complexity Profile (LCP) and between 94% and 261% for the Higher Complexity Profile (HCP) reflect a major step in spectral efficiency which can be used to help address the challenges and need for more capacity for the Terrestrial Broadcast platform as new use cases progressively materialize.

    - The ATSC 3.0 physical layer standard is significantly more efficient than DVB-­‐T2 and therefore builds a sound alternative to the latter.
    Whether from MPEG or from others sources, it seems likely that a next generation, standardized CODEC would reach the market to replace / extend HEVC around between 2023 (anticipated for standard publication) and 2025 (initial mass market products).

    DVB should plan and prepare to adopt such new standard codec (estimated DVB standard adoption date of 2024).

    Such new codec would need to provide a 30-­‐50% gain against HEVC, which would in itself directly, and may easily, provide a large part of the required performance improvement as evaluated in the supply & demand model desired improvement of 1x to 2,3x with median value of 1,8x).


  • #51
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,392 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    The Cush wrote: »
    Italy are mandating HEVC in their receivers from this year IIRC but have no plans for UHD, instead it's likely to be used to replace 700MHz spectrum capacity within the next 6 years.

    "As of January 1st, the sale of TV sets with DVB-T/MPEG-2 or MPEG-4 encoding is no longer allowed in Italy.

    Retailers can market only TV sets with tuner compatible with the new second-generation digital terrestrial standard DVBT-2/HEVC, which allows for more efficient use of frequencies by an estimated 30 per cent compression of the signal    ."

    http://advanced-television.com/2017/01/05/only-dvb-t2hevc-tv-sets-on-sale-in-italy/


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  • #52
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,392 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Croatia also planning the switch to DVB-T2 H.265/HEVC

    Croatia to switch to DVB-T2 standard in 2019
    Sunday 8 January 2017

    The Croatian Regulatory Authority for Network Industries (Hakom) has confirmed to T-Portal that Croatia should switch from DVB-T/MPEG-2 to the DVB-T2 H.265/HEVC digital TV standard in early 2019. Currently, work is under way on the strategy for the transition of digital terrestrial television to the DVB-T2 system and it should be adopted in 2017. However, the transition period could last for two years (from 2019 to 2021) to give the public enough time to get the necessary STB devices and/or new TVs.

    https://www.telecompaper.com/news/croatia-to-switch-to-dvb-t2-standard-in-2019--1178704


  • #53
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,392 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Germany has started the transition to DVB-T2/HEVC tonight.

    The old DVB-T/MPEG2 network began switching off at various sites at 11:00pm (incl. the DVB-T2/HEVC pilot mux) and by midday 69 sites covering 55m people will be covered by the new network. The transition will be done in 4 phases (29 Mar and 8 Nov 2017, Mar and Nov 2018), completing in mid-2019.

    Of the 69 sites switching over today only 43 will carry the 3 commercial pay-TV muxes (€69 pa/€5.75 pm). At completion only 61 sites covering approx. 61m/80% of the population carry the commercial muxes.

    Almost all channels will be in Full HD (1920x1080p/50) with 3 in qHD (960x540p/50). Mux parameters vary so capacities vary, the PSB muxes will be 18.2 & 22 Mbit/s respectively ensuring robust nationwide coverage and the 3 commercial muxes 27.6 Mbit/s. The equivalent UK DVB-T2 HD mux has a capacity of 40 Mbit/s.

    The transition also clears the 700 Mhz band to make way for mobile services in 2019. The band made €1,000,445,000 at auction last summer


  • #54
    byte
    Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 19,225 Mod ✭✭✭✭byte
    byte


    I'm kind of surprised that they're going for 1080p over 1080i and perhaps some UHD channels instead.


  • #55
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,392 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    byte wrote: »
    I'm kind of surprised that they're going for 1080p over 1080i and perhaps some UHD channels instead.

    A single UHD channel would consume 15-25 Mbit/s i.e. up to an entire DVB-T2/HEVC mux using German parameters. UHD on terrestrial TV will require much more efficient HEVC encoders or a new high efficient codec, a future H.266 standard maybe.

    1080p is a no brainer with HEVC, most German muxes are carrying 5 or 6 1080p HD channels at bitrates between 3.5-4 Mbit/s.

    At the same time these mux parameters allows for robust indoor, portable and mobile reception.


  • #56
    byte
    Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 19,225 Mod ✭✭✭✭byte
    byte


    Indeed, you're quite right. I didn't think the numbers through at all.


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