Bus Eireann

BuilderPlumber · 27-03-2017 07:16AM

TrustedApple wrote: »

I work in IT and have fairly OK wages as a Sap coder. I do not think i am higher then someone else because I work in IT. I just tell people any it college course is not for everyone and you have to like computers to be able to do well In them.

But with any job you can be trained to do it.

But thanks to. The bus today I can't get to work at all and no taxi will bring me down from my house to my office woop de do. The joys of working 9km from your office.

So I am. Due to start at 8 and I prob won't get in to at at lest 11 and will have to work to 8 this evening all thanks to the bus drivers and taxi drivers.

Just f great.....

Of course not all IT workers think they are above other workers. There are some workers in all professions who look down on others and think they are better.

This description of your situation is PRECISELY the reason this strike needs to be rendered illegal and/or alternative buses serving BE routes made legal. Ireland needs to cop itself on wrt things like this. Anything short of a terrorist incident or natural disaster should not interrupt public services like buses. Simple as. That this thing is allowed go on 3/4 days so far without any emergency legislation dealing with it makes me wonder what type of a country is this. This strike needs to be made an illegal activity or else other buses or the army should be told to serve the routes.

TrustedApple · 27-03-2017 07:37AM

It's just a joke like the way the government won't do anything about it. As these is 3 company's in cork that have buses running for there staff Apple, vox pro and emc but as I don't work for one of them no free bus.

Like I am pro making the buses run by perv company's as if my company changes something I have to agree to if or be showed the door. The company I work for is rebranding and I have a new contact with a few things changed and if I did not agree I be giving the door and I am sorry but that is the proper way of dealing with thinks as unions are just a huge pain the ass.

knipex · 27-03-2017 07:47AM

PeadarCo wrote: »

How is the fact that private companies have completely out competed expressway. That's the bit of bus eireann having trouble it actually makes a profit on its PSO routes.
.

And the solution is to give BE more money from the taxes paid by the employees of the private operators so that their competitor can actually compete with them and put their own jobs at risk.

Its simple really..

suicide_circus · 27-03-2017 08:03AM

Can I suggest that the building of the National Children's Hospital be scrapped and these much needed funds redirected to Bus Eireann and RTE to keep these vital employees in the style to which they are accustomed?

TrustedApple · 27-03-2017 08:51AM

suicide_circus wrote: »

Can I suggest that the building of the National Children's Hospital be scrapped and these much needed funds redirected to Bus Eireann and RTE to keep these vital employees in the style to which they are accustomed?

Stop I was in small claims court on friday where one of the 2fm djs boyfriend was fighting a shop over her engagement ring and it was priceless as I am like your on nearly 200k a year and you fight over a stupid ring?

AlmightyCushion · 27-03-2017 09:48AM

end of the road wrote: »

not cost effective and the only thing to be gained would be increased subsidy and fares to insure a profit can be made from the most loss making of routes.

What makes you come to this conclusion? If we look at non PSO routes, private operators are running on routes that Bus Eireann are running on. Bus Eireann are usually more expensive and even still are not able to make a profit on these routes whereas private operators are. There are no subsidies and fares are lower with private operators on these routes so if anything fares and subsidies would likely fall.

TheDoctor · 27-03-2017 10:05AM

Are they still on strike?

You'd hardly notice. Not missed at all.

TheDoctor · 27-03-2017 10:06AM

Are they still on strike?

You'd hardly notice. Not missed at all.

knipex · 27-03-2017 10:11AM

end of the road wrote: »

not cost effective and the only thing to be gained would be increased subsidy and fares to insure a profit can be made from the most loss making of routes.

The loss making routes are commercial non PSO routes where they (in the main) compete with private operators who can make a profit.

The initial complaint from the unions was that the transport authority allowed too much competition and shouldn't have issued licenses to private operators on these routes. How dare they let a private operator compete where they could be more cost efficient.

This whole PSO \ subsidy this is a red herring.. The company makes a profit on the subsided routes and loses money on the commercial activities. In fact they loose so much money that it more than wipes out the profits.

The unions want a higher subsidy to make a higher profit so they can cover the losses from the commercial activity....

devnull · 27-03-2017 10:34AM

end of the road wrote: »

it doesn't matter how much copy and pasting you do or how many times you do it, i have explained where i am coming from in relation to the uk via the fact tendered routes exist there.

It doesn't matter how much you keep saying the same thing without substantiating it, it still does not make your initial claims true, you come out with the same lines all of the time but in a in-depth discussion about your claims you quickly run into trouble.

As I said before, tendered services exist in the UK but services only go out to tender when the commercial market decides it cannot service them as opposed to Ireland where services from day one were deemed as need in PSO because BE/DB said so rather than the market saying so.

As I stated to you before, how is it that in Glasgow there can be over 900 buses and well over 95% of those routes be run commercially and companies still buy their own buses every year and pay commercial rates for insurance, yet in Dublin, every single route is deemed as being nonviable and the company needs state insurance and free buses?

they can't do it for less as they have to make a profit. the wage bill is fine, it's the overtime that is the issue and that is being dealt with.

You do not think that overtime is part of the wage bill? And it is being dealt with? Not from the union side it isn't, they have been on strike for the last 4 days because it is being dealt with and they are refusing to deal with it themselves, or had that escaped your notice?

tendering of public services isn't about value to the tax payer. it's about driving down terms and conditions, privatizing profit and socialising losses and risk.

If it was about the things you say, they'd go for all out de-regulation, tendering gives the best of both worlds, it keeps regulation whilst at the same time preventing monopolies, be they public or private, all monopolies are bad for the consumer because they drive prices up, union power up to hold the country to ransom and taxpayer costs up.

not so be it. the bus eireann drivers earned the wage. if you can't get a similar wage that is your fault for not standing up. it's not the job of the bus eireann staff to be dragged down to your wage. the fact you can't get a good wage is not their problem or fault.

The old adage, everyone else who is paid more than us is overpaid, anyone who is paid the same as us, is paid the right pay, anyone who is paid less than us is underpaid.

devnull · 27-03-2017 10:37AM

suicide_circus wrote: »

Can I suggest that the building of the National Children's Hospital be scrapped and these much needed funds redirected to Bus Eireann and RTE to keep these vital employees in the style to which they are accustomed?

Don't worry, the planning board will help them with that, who are more concerned about some minor technicality or impact on the city and deem it more important than the health of the children in our country.

The trouble is as has been said, the kind of people who want tax money to be given to the BE workers, are the same ones who have issues paying taxes saying they won't pay because it's a stealth tax they can't afford.

chupacabra · 27-03-2017 11:33AM

TheDoctor wrote: »

Are they still on strike?

You'd hardly notice. Not missed at all.

Being stranded in Dingle with no private operators running weekday routes to Tralee, yeah id say i'm noticing at the moment

Bad timing for me but I guess I could have picked a worse spot to get stuck in.

scoey · 27-03-2017 11:33AM

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

Of course not all IT workers think they are above other workers. There are some workers in all professions who look down on others and think they are better.

This description of your situation is PRECISELY the reason this strike needs to be rendered illegal and/or alternative buses serving BE routes made legal. Ireland needs to cop itself on wrt things like this. Anything short of a terrorist incident or natural disaster should not interrupt public services like buses. Simple as. That this thing is allowed go on 3/4 days so far without any emergency legislation dealing with it makes me wonder what type of a country is this. This strike needs to be made an illegal activity or else other buses or the army should be told to serve the routes.

You really do sound like an utter lunatic talking about the army and calling unions terrorists(a few posts up), demanding strikes be made illegal etc.

devnull · 27-03-2017 12:01PM

Snippet from the Indo:
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/thousands-of-passengers-facing-chaos-as-strikers-get-support-from-dublin-bus-and-irish-rail-drivers-35567464.html

Solidarity TDs this morning said Bus Eireann should hire more workers than promote redundancy packages.

Deputy Mick Barry said: "Last week we heard the IDA state that it costs them €10,500 to create a job and that it costs Connect Ireland €4000 to do the same. The same Government that funds the IDA and Connect Ireland stands idly by while mass redundancies are planned in the semi state sector. The double standard is glaring.

knipex · 27-03-2017 12:07PM

devnull wrote: »

Snippet from the Indo:
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/thousands-of-passengers-facing-chaos-as-strikers-get-support-from-dublin-bus-and-irish-rail-drivers-35567464.html

Where did he get mass redundancies from ???

For Forks Sake · 27-03-2017 12:08PM

devnull wrote: »

Snippet from the Indo:
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/thousands-of-passengers-facing-chaos-as-strikers-get-support-from-dublin-bus-and-irish-rail-drivers-35567464.html

Mick Barry is stone barking mad.

For Forks Sake · 27-03-2017 12:09PM

knipex wrote: »

Where did he get mass redundancies from ???

Out of his arse, same place as his magical financial calcuations

AlmightyCushion · 27-03-2017 12:11PM

knipex wrote: »

Where did he get mass redundancies from ???

It's in the article.

It will discuss a management plan to cut 300 jobs through a voluntary redundancy programme. However, the company could go bust within a fortnight as it has roughly €7m in cash reserves but is losing €500,000 a day during the strike.

His suggestion is still beyond stupid.

knipex · 27-03-2017 12:13PM

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

It's in the article.

Oh I know that and I have no doubt he said it but which work of fiction did he pull it from ??

devnull · 27-03-2017 12:19PM

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Mick Barry is stone barking mad.

Jobs for the boys.

jimmycrackcorm · 27-03-2017 12:22PM

end of the road wrote:

it would have to be a lot more then they pay bus eireann though as they have a duty to insure the private company makes a profit for running the route.

end of the road wrote:

the current subvention isn't enough to allow for a good profit for private operators, who we have a duty to insure make a profit should we expect them to operate routes that should be operated by a state company.

end of the road wrote:

not cost effective and the only thing to be gained would be increased subsidy and fares to insure a profit can be made from the most loss making of routes.

You keep reiterating this rubbish. At one point the state owned Aer Lingus and regularly had to fund it as it too was run as an inefficient semi state. Now it is well able to stand on its own feet, make a profit, pay employees good salaries and passengers get good fares.

Argue all you want that you can't compare air travel to bus travel but It's just a blind attitude to ignore the simple fact private operators can run better services with a PSO for routes that deem it, make a profit, and it would still be cheaper than doing it with BE.

You're also conveniently ignoring the fact that currently the PSO subvention has been increased, which is a worse scenario than suggesting a private operator might make a little profit.

TrustedApple wrote:

But thanks to. The bus today I can't get to work at all and no taxi will bring me down from my house to my office woop de do. The joys of working 9km from your office.

Get yourself a bike. You'll do that distance in less than a half hour.

knipex wrote:

And the solution is to give BE more money from the taxes paid by the employees of the private operators so that their competitor can actually compete with them and put their own jobs at risk.

Sarcasm? I can't tell.

knipex · 27-03-2017 12:30PM

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Sarcasm? I can't tell.

In a normal world but based on some comments I am starting to wonder

Vic_08 · 27-03-2017 12:36PM

It will discuss a management plan to cut 300 jobs through a voluntary redundancy programme. However, the company could go bust within a fortnight as it has roughly €7m in cash reserves but is losing €500,000 a day during the strike.

How does a bus company that is not operating any services or paying any staff below management grade spend €500,000 a day?

This is €91 million a year that they are supposedly spending outwith staff costs, maintenance costs and operating costs.

New savings plan = stop spending this money.

Of course that €500k figure could be a complete lie, as is so much of the supposed facts put out by BE management.

devnull · 27-03-2017 12:41PM

Vic_08 wrote: »

How does a bus company that is not operating any services or paying any staff below management grade spend €500,000 a day?

I wonder if they are including the amount which they are not getting in PSO or are paying back in PSO for non delivered services in the €500k a day? That won't make it all up, but will make up a big chunk of cash.

There would also be other accruals contracts that BE has entered into with third parties that they would still need to pay, unless they have clauses in such contracts that say if BE are on strike the contractors don't get paid, which is unlikely.

There will always be some fixed costs in any business spread over the course of the year whether you are on strike or not.

Winterlong · 27-03-2017 12:43PM

The insurance cost of their fleet and public liability insurance for their terminals alone must be massive.

knipex · 27-03-2017 12:57PM

Vic_08 wrote: »

How does a bus company that is not operating any services or paying any staff below management grade spend €500,000 a day?

This is €91 million a year that they are supposedly spending outwith staff costs, maintenance costs and operating costs.

New savings plan = stop spending this money.

Of course that €500k figure could be a complete lie, as is so much of the supposed facts put out by BE management.

Overhead consist of more than wages. Rent, insurance, lease costs, depreciation etc etc.

Plus loss of revenue, forfeiture of PSO and the lack of income from the areas of the company that did actually make a profit..

BoatMad · 27-03-2017 12:57PM

Winterlong wrote: »

The insurance cost of their fleet and public liability insurance for their terminals alone must be massive.

dont CIE self insure

and of course technically they get fined by the NTA for every day they fail to provide contracted services

devnull · 27-03-2017 01:02PM

BoatMad wrote: »

and of course technically they get fined by the NTA for every day they fail to provide contracted services

Technically not fined, just not paid.

Vic_08 · 27-03-2017 01:15PM

knipex wrote: »

Overhead consist of more than wages. Rent, insurance, lease costs, depreciation etc etc.

Plus loss of revenue, forfeiture of PSO and the lack of income from the areas of the company that did actually make a profit..

Most BE property is owned, they self-insure, none of the fleet is leased, depreciation is a paper cost whereas the fleet purchases are already paid for.

If the overall service is losing as much as they claim then not running all of it will cost less than business as usual.

PSO is €33m, that still leaves nearly €60m they are apparently spending on things that are not wages (except management and hangers-on) or directly attributed to day to day operations.

BoatMad · 27-03-2017 01:18PM

devnull wrote: »

Technically not fined, just not paid.

there is a provision to fine operators that do not provide contracted services

Bus Eireann

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