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Attack outside UK Houses Of Parliament — No speculation — Read 1st post

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Comments

  • #1892
    222233
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,114 ✭✭✭222233


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    Assuming that the women are innocent civilians, I would consider those deaths to be murder. What do you think?

    So in that theory they would then go and kill the people who killed their women and children right, if those people were also muslims?


  • #1893
    Widdershins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    I wonder if the West stopped killing innocent people in North Africa would terrorism decrease or increase? To answer my own question, I think it would decrease. Perhaps the West could start there in their quest to deal with terrorism.

    I have been quoting you almost verbatim throughout, do I need to press the Quote button in order for you to recognise what you yourself typed? You could also re-read your own comments that I am referring to, since they're not that far back in the thread.

    I'm suspecting a bit of almost trollish self amusement about this now.


  • #1894
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,392 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Depp wrote: »
    Agree with this it definitely helps them but I dont think that losing it would hurt them that much.

    Perhaps. Still, the murder of innocent people by Western forces should stop regardless.


  • #1895
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,392 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Widdershins wrote: »
    I have been quoting you almost verbatim throughout, do I need to press the Quote button in order for you to recognise what you yourself typed? You could also re-read your own comments that I am referring to, since they're not that far back in the thread.

    I'm suspecting a bit of almost trollish self amusement about this now.

    I don't like having words put in my mouth. I asked you three times to provide any evidence for your claims. You have provided none. That is because there is none. Best let it go now.


  • #1896
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,392 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    222233 wrote: »
    So in that theory they would then go and kill the people who killed their women and children right, if those people were also muslims?

    When innocent people are killed, ideally, those that kill them should be brought to justice. What do you think?


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  • #1897
    222233
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,114 ✭✭✭222233


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    When innocent people are killed, ideally, those that kill them should be brought to justice. What do you think?

    Ya but if the terror attacks they are committing in Europe are about justice I'm assuming they practice the same at home (if they are from a different country)


  • #1898
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,392 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    222233 wrote: »
    Ya but if the terror attacks they are committing in Europe are about justice I'm assuming they practice the same at home (if they are from a different country)

    I have no idea other than what I read/hear/see on the media. Based on that information, most of the attacks are committed by disaffected people (usually born in Europe) who have been radicalised. I doubt if they had a clue about events in the Middle East other than being fed propaganda.


  • #1899
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    Well, perspective is everything. That is how suspected al Qaeda members were brought to the US.
    Ireland facilitated their transportation.
    You might not think that this qualifies Ireland to be a target but in the minds of al Qaeda members it may well do.
    How exactly did Ireland facilitate their transportation?
    Where's the proof that the relevant authorities knew about this and let it happen?
    Commercial aircraft have the right to refuel in our airports.
    As do military aircraft subject to certain conditions.

    Also have ISIS or any other terrorist organisation ever used these alleged incidents as justification for possible attacks?


  • #1900
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,392 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    jackofalltrades wrote: »
    How exactly did Ireland facilitate their transportation?
    Where's the proof that the relevant authorities knew about this and let it happen?
    Commercial aircraft have the right to refuel in our airports.
    As do military aircraft subject to certain conditions.

    Also have ISIS or any other terrorist organisation ever used these alleged incidents as justification for possible attacks?

    You don't remember it? Here's an article that will explain the controversy. Plenty more if you Google.

    Regarding your Isis question, not yet to my knowledge.


  • #1901
    Widdershins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    Just a thought. On Sharia law and its strength in the UK. While I was not insinuating that saudi style punishments are typical in britain, it has since occurred to me that the killing of the Muslim shopkeeper, Asad Shah from Glasgow, was Sharia punishment in action. He was murdered for disrespecting the Prophet.

    The Muslims I know weren't surprised, and there were even warnings posted by other Muslims, on his rambling Youtube videos in which he claimed to be a prophet. Some of them stated that he was clearly ill and shouldn't be held responsible for what he was saying. Others tried to warn him not to keep saying these things. When the news broke, a Muslim friend said that the reason was known by other Muslims, and Asad was known for what it later transpired he was killed for.


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  • #1902
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    You don't remember it? Here's an article that will explain the controversy. Plenty more if you Google.
    Oh I remember the details alright, but I just don't see anything that shows the state was complicit in allowing these flights.
    Regarding your Isis question, not yet to my knowledge.
    That's what I thought, it only seems to be brought up by Clare Daly and the likes.


  • #1903
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,392 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    jackofalltrades wrote: »
    Oh I remember the details alright, but I just don't see anything that shows the state was complicit in allowing these flights.

    That's what I thought, it only seems to be brought up by Clare Daly and the likes.

    All of the evidence points to the Irish government turning a blind eye to what was happening. The European Parliament, the Council of Europe and the UN expressed concern about these stopovers.

    However, in all of this, perception is what matters. If al Qaeda believe that some of their members were transported to the US via Ireland, then they may choose to see Ireland as a target.


  • #1904
    jackboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,075 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »

    However, in all of this, perception is what matters. If al Qaeda believe that some of their members were transported to the US via Ireland, then they may choose to see Ireland as a target.
    A lot of the recent attacks are just individuals acting alone with little planning. These could happen in any country and there is nothing that can be done to stop it. Eventually we will suffer one of these attacks.


  • #1905
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,392 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    jackboy wrote: »
    A lot of the recent attacks are just individuals acting alone with little planning. These could happen in any country and there is nothing that can be done to stop it. Eventually we will suffer one of these attacks.

    Agreed. Very possible, unfortunately.


  • #1906
    Beyondgone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Beyondgone


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    Agreed. Very possible, unfortunately.

    That chap who was driving the car might be looking Down/Up now, going "NOO! I was P***d off because my benefits were cut! How dare they say I was Daesh :confused::confused:??"

    I'm not one for snowflaking, quite the opposite actually, but it must be a bit of a bummer if you have dark skin and you go off on one, you get lumped straight in as "ISIS" and all your mates get arrested. Maybe he was just a header who happened to have "Asian" features?


  • #1907
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,392 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Beyondgone wrote: »
    That chap who was driving the car might be looking Down/Up now, going "NOO! I was P***d off because my benefits were cut! How dare they say I was Daesh :confused::confused:??"

    I'm not one for snowflaking, quite the opposite actually, but it must be a bit of a bummer if you have dark skin and you go off on one, you get lumped straight in as "ISIS" and all your mates get arrested. Maybe he was just a header who happened to have "Asian" features?

    Well, no.


  • #1908
    Beyondgone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Beyondgone


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    Well, no.

    Why No? You know why he did what he did? He left a note?


  • #1909
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,392 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Beyondgone wrote: »
    Why No? You know why he did what he did? He left a note?

    All the evidence points to radicalisation.


  • #1910
    Beyondgone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Beyondgone


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    All the evidence points to radicalisation.

    Or possibly he had his Benefits cut/couldn't access his kids/fell out with the girlfriend/was mentally unstable and went off on one? But, had brown skin, so became lumped in with "ISIS"?


  • #1911
    Widdershins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    Beyondgone wrote: »
    Or possibly he had his Benefits cut/couldn't access his kids/fell out with the girlfriend/was mentally unstable and went off on one? But, had brown skin, so became lumped in with "ISIS"?

    Terrorist attacks aren't handled by village policemen and there is a bit more than you seem to think in determining the motive. Maybe you could point out some cases where brown skinned people were framed for terrorist attacks, along with some evidence that people with grievances around social welfare or custody disputes have committed mass murder and their crimes claimed by Isil, who are consistent in claiming the acts of their soldiers and NOT claiming those that were not related.


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  • #1912
    mikeoneilly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 479 ✭✭mikeoneilly


    222233 wrote: »
    Can anyone link a source where a terrorist committed a suicide bombing because of "atrocities" committed by the West?

    It usually seems to be to the tune of - god is.., disbelievers, sharia law..

    I don't know about specific suicide bombings but there is evidence that they help al queda and the Taliban recruit members
    I read where one Taliban leader said he got 150 recruits after a drone strike.


    https://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/06/14/opinion/how-drones-help-al-qaeda.html

    https://www.google.ie/amp/www.thejournal.ie/drone-operators-airmen-open-letter-to-obama-carter-2455824-Nov2015/%3Famp%3D1


  • #1913
    Beyondgone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Beyondgone


    Widdershins wrote: »
    Terrorist attacks aren't handled by village policemen and there is a bit more than you seem to think in determining the motive. Maybe you could point out some cases where brown skinned people were framed for terrorist attacks, along with some evidence that people with grievances around social welfare or custody disputes have committed mass murder and their crimes claimed by Isil, who are consistent in claiming the acts of their soldiers and NOT claiming those that were not related.

    They all started out as village Policemen. Promotion didn't change who they are. If you want to "verify" their bona-fides, the Birmingham six had the "wrong" nationality at the time. The village Policemen convicted them. Maybe this loony had other reasons than "Isil" - what is that anyway?? The village Policemen may well have added 2 and 2 and gotten 5. Deliberately.


  • #1914
    Widdershins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    Beyondgone wrote: »
    They all started out as village Policemen. Promotion didn't change who they are. If you want to "verify" their bona-fides, the Birmingham six had the "wrong" nationality at the time. The village Policemen convicted them. Maybe this loony had other reasons than "Isil" - what is that anyway?? The village Policemen may well have added 2 and 2 and gotten 5. Deliberately.

    I think there is a dedicated forum for conspiracy theories.

    Isil is an acronym for Islamic state of syria and the levant. Do you know who they are? You do seem new to this?


  • #1915
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,259 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Widdershins wrote: »
    I think there is a dedicated forum for conspiracy theories.

    A conspiracy theory would be something fantastic that is unlikely to have happened.
    As what the poster has described has happened many times before it is hardly a conspiracy theory.
    I can see why they might want to exaggerate an involvement by ISIL.
    'Reds under the bed' etc kept the arms business busy for years.

    That is not to say the above is the case, but it should always be a consideration given the history of the UK.


  • #1916
    Widdershins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    A conspiracy theory would be something fantastic that is unlikely to have happened.
    As what the poster has described has happened many times before it is hardly a conspiracy theory.
    I can see why they might want to exaggerate an involvement by ISIL.
    'Reds under the bed' etc kept the arms business busy for years.

    That is not to say the above is the case, but it should always be a consideration given the history of the UK.

    Should always be a consideration given the UK's history? In that case islamist terrorism should always be a consideration, given the history of Islamist terrorism!
    And yes, it is a conspiracy, because there is no evidence!


  • #1917
    Beyondgone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Beyondgone


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    A conspiracy theory would be something fantastic that is unlikely to have happened.
    As what the poster has described has happened many times before it is hardly a conspiracy theory.
    I can see why they might want to exaggerate an involvement by ISIL.
    'Reds under the bed' etc kept the arms business busy for years.

    That is not to say the above is the case, but it should always be a consideration given the history of the UK.
    If I loudly declare my (however false) allegiance to ISIS and go off and do severe harm to people on O'Connell St while roaring "Allah Uh Akbar!" - do I become an ISIS warrior? Despite the fact I was annoyed by some other trivial stuff but lacked perspective and had seen some videos? I think the whole "Isis/Al Quaeda" thing is a tiny bit too convenient. A catch all for the disaffected.


  • #1918
    Widdershins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    Beyondgone wrote: »
    If I loudly declare my (however false) allegiance to ISIS and go off and do severe harm to people on O'Connell St while roaring "Allah Uh Akbar!" - do I become an ISIS warrior? Despite the fact I was annoyed by some other trivial stuff but lacked perspective and had seen some videos? I think the whole "Isis/Al Quaeda" thing is a tiny bit too convenient. A catch all for the disaffected.

    Perhaps you should ask them, I'm not a recruiter. Essentially, yes, but it wouldn't happen because ''disaffection'' doesn't typically induce an urge to go on a homicidal rampage culminating in martyrdom. Whereas Islamism has an 'illustrious' history of it. As to why you'd bother declared your ''however false'' allegiance before topping a crowd and the yourself, is a mystery I'm sure only your unique way of thinking can decrypt.
    I'm sure there are people who also think ''the whole isis/al quaeda thing'' is ''a bit too convenient'' in the CT forum. Along with the ones who same the same about the holocaust.


  • #1919
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Beyondgone wrote: »
    If I loudly declare my (however false) allegiance to ISIS and go off and do severe harm to people on O'Connell St while roaring "Allah Uh Akbar!" - do I become an ISIS warrior? Despite the fact I was annoyed by some other trivial stuff but lacked perspective and had seen some videos? I think the whole "Isis/Al Quaeda" thing is a tiny bit too convenient. A catch all for the disaffected.

    I nearly did the O Connell Street/Allah Akbar thing last Tuesday when I put out my recycling bin instead of my general waste one. Damn infidels!


  • #1920
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,259 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Widdershins wrote: »
    Should always be a consideration given the UK's history? In that case islamist terrorism should always be a consideration, given the history of Islamist terrorism!
    And yes, it is a conspiracy, because there is no evidence!

    Yes, everything should be considered and a rational conclusion reached.

    There are huge dividends for certain activities if you keep people living in heightened fear.
    The Rooskies aren't a threat since the USSR broke up bar some posturing and playing taunt. And to me there always has to be a big bad entity out there.

    What 'evidence' have you actually seen and examined BTW?
    Did you immediately think the Birmingham 6 were innocent or did you just trust everything you were fed by a police and justice system that turned out had concocted the whole thing?


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  • #1921
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Khalid Masood told friend ‘I want some f***ing blood, I want to kill someone’ before converting to Islam in prison

    Friend says convict tried to find ‘inner peace’ in Islam after bouts of rage and violence


    The Westminster attacker converted to Islam in prison, it has emerged, as police continue to piece together the journey of Khalid Masood from “all-round nice guy”, to violent criminal, to terrorist.

    The 52-year-old served several prison sentences for offences ranging from grievous bodily harm, to assault and possession of an offensive weapon dating back to his teenage years.

    Violent episodes peppered his life, with one friend recalling Masood admitting he had dreams “about killing someone” 16 years before he murdered four people outside the Houses of Parliament.

    Click here for full article

    Some info on the attacker. He wasn't Asian despite some of the early reports (people really need to take early reports on this things with a grain of salt, as they are often wrong), and he was a convert, and born in the UK. Had a history of violence, and been in and out of prison for years.

    He was probably radicalized via the Internet, which is an increasing problem, not just with ISIL, but other violent far right movements, for example Dylann Roof was similarly radicalized by white supremacist material online.


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