Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
If we do not hit our goal we will be forced to close the site.

Current status: https://keepboardsalive.com/

Annual subs are best for most impact. If you are still undecided on going Ad Free - you can also donate using the Paypal Donate option. All contribution helps. Thank you.

Rescue 116 Crash at Blackrock, Co Mayo(Mod note in post 1)

1…4546485051…136

Comments

  • #1412
    Gaoth Laidir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,262 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    naughto wrote: »
    Was it foggy weather that night

    Surface visibility was 3000 m at nearby Belmullet but visibility would be much less than that at their reported altitude of 220 ft as cloudbase was 300 ft.


  • #1413
    elastico
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭elastico


    selectamatic wrote: »
    A poster here was basically laughed at by some for proposing a similar theory about a week ago.

    Some of the self proclaimed "experts" around here looking a bit silly right now. As are those calling others "keyboard investigators"

    The helicopter was last known to be flying at 220ft and shortly after collided with an obstacle of similar height not shown on its charts.


  • #1414
    Cianmcliam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 715 ✭✭✭Cianmcliam


    scuby wrote: »
    If true that blackrock is not in the nav system, that's utterly heart breaking.... surely though the AIS beacon and lighthouse light would have been an alert to them?

    Unless they specifically checked the beacon, would it be possible it may have been considered as just another beacon from a sea vessel?


  • #1415
    Kerrydude1981
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,192 ✭✭✭✭Kerrydude1981


    Esel wrote: »
    How is it possible that the EGPWS did not have Blackrock in its database?


    They said something about the software not been updated


  • #1416
    Nekarsulm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,293 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    So its possible this island is not on the database. What else is missing?



    dzbORzC.jpg


  • Advertisement
  • #1417
    cosanostra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 888 ✭✭✭cosanostra


    Gaoth Laidir wrote: »
    I had mentioned it about my Skydemon app. Still, I would expect that this crew's systems would have all pertinent information available.

    Who supplies the various systems with the info?


  • #1418
    elastico
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭elastico


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    Irish Lights did say previously that the lighthouse was functioning and was still functioning after the crash, would it not have been visible?

    Bear in mind the lights are designed for mariners, not aviators, so at 280ft the beam would be pointing down.

    In any case the interval is something like 14 seconds, so not something you would see too easy when pointing down on a murky night, while flying at speed.


  • #1419
    Panrich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,033 ✭✭✭Panrich


    How many times would one of the rescue helicopters have flown a similar route to land at Blacksod? If Blackrock was not on the maps, then was it dumb luck that nobody hit it previously and surely it was flown over in good visibility and known about by crews?


  • #1420
    OffalyMedic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭OffalyMedic


    Donal55 wrote:
    Any truth in the rumour that the Aer Corp EAS system has been curtailed lately to daytime flights only? Thanks

    Air Corp can fly at night and have night vision goggle on board for all crew but they cannot transport a patient after sunset.


  • #1421
    elastico
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭elastico


    Panrich wrote: »
    How many times would one of the rescue helicopters have flown a similar route to land at Blacksod? If Blackrock was not on the maps, then was it dumb luck that nobody hit it previously and surely it was flown over in good visibility and known about by crews?

    As I understand it should have been flying at 4000 ft beginning its decent, but for some reason was flying at 220ft 12km from landing point. That bit makes no sense.


  • Advertisement
  • #1422
    Cianmcliam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 715 ✭✭✭Cianmcliam


    elastico wrote: »
    As I understand it should have been flying at 4000 ft beginning its decent, but for some reason was flying at 220ft 12km from landing point. That bit makes no sense.

    It does though when the cloud base was at 300ft.


  • #1423
    Gaoth Laidir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,262 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    elastico wrote: »
    As I understand it should have been flying at 4000 ft beginning its decent, but for some reason was flying at 220ft 12km from landing point. That bit makes no sense.

    No, I think it started its descent much earlier than that.


  • #1424
    HighLine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭HighLine


    elastico wrote: »
    As I understand it should have been flying at 4000 ft beginning its decent, but for some reason was flying at 220ft 12km from landing point. That bit makes no sense.

    Exactly what I was about to type. The reason for the low altitude will hopefully be discovered in the investigation.


  • #1425
    selectamatic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,156 ✭✭✭selectamatic


    naughto wrote: »
    Was it foggy weather that night

    Very thick cloud cover and sorta misty but still it was not too bad at that altitude (circa 300ft)

    I always go outside to spot helicopters passing over the house with binoculars. That particular night I couldn't even see the lights of r116. It would've been at around 4000ft though as I'm located near enough knock airport.


  • #1426
    elastico
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭elastico


    Cianmcliam wrote: »
    It does though when the cloud base was at 300ft.

    Not 12km from where it is supposed to land, from what I have read it should have been at approx. 4000 ft and starting a gradual decent to black sod.


  • #1427
    Gaoth Laidir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,262 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    Flight visibility would be a lot less than the reported surface visibility. It's also possible that cloudbase at Blackrock was lower than the 300 ft reported at Belmullet.


  • #1428
    Negative_G
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,415 ✭✭✭Negative_G


    elastico wrote: »
    As I understand it should have been flying at 4000 ft beginning its decent, but for some reason was flying at 220ft 12km from landing point. That bit makes no sense.

    You make a good point.

    While it is without question now that they were performing a cloud break procedure, the question must be asked as to why they were flying so low while so far away from their destination. What hasn't been mentioned yet is whether they were still descending as they passed 220 or in level flight.

    We know the S92 is not capable of using the pad at Black Rock and that they had no intention of using it from their RT.

    Considering that the DA for a CAT 1 ILS is 200 feet it seems very strange to me that they would be flying so low in order to achieve VMC. I know I am not comparing like with like here but it is an worth looking at.

    Company ops manual will undoubtedly state a DA for this procedure and I would be surprised if it is anywhere near 200ft.


  • #1429
    Coil Kilcrea
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 215 ✭✭Coil Kilcrea


    Gaoth Laidir wrote: »
    I had mentioned it about my Skydemon app. Still, I would expect that this crew's systems would have all pertinent information available.

    If it's correct information, it's simply unbelievable. With all the available technology, brilliantly trained aviators in first rate equipment couldn't see where they were going?

    I've learned a great deal from this discussion here and the knowledge shared. And through it, my admiration for the skill of the pilots, the capability of the equipment and the sophistication of the processes used increased by the day.

    It's simply tragic beyond words.


  • #1430
    2forjoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 464 ✭✭2forjoy


    Hopefully the bodies are recovered soon . the divers have 8 minutes


  • #1431
    mulbot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭mulbot


    2forjoy wrote: »
    Hopefully the bodies are recovered soon . the divers have 8 minutes

    Why only 8?


  • Advertisement
  • #1432
    2forjoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 464 ✭✭2forjoy


    mulbot wrote: »
    Why only 8?
    The Navy divers working in pairs will have an eight-minute limit on the seabed to minimise decompression requirements, and will use several local boats, including the Gearoidín and Ros Anne skippered by local fishermen

    the Irish Times


  • #1433
    Cianmcliam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 715 ✭✭✭Cianmcliam


    Coil Kilcrea wrote: »
    If it's correct information, it's simply unbelievable. With all the available technology, brilliantly trained aviators in first rate equipment couldn't see where they were going?

    I've learned a great deal from this discussion here and the knowledge shared. And through it, my admiration for the skill of the pilots, the capability of the equipment and the sophistication of the processes used increased by the day.

    It's simply tragic beyond words.

    The EGPWS is the very last resort though, even with it missing in the database it should surely have been on the maps so nothing should be flying anywhere near it unless planning to land you would think.


  • #1434
    mulbot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭mulbot


    2forjoy wrote: »
    the Irish Times

    Hmmmm.technical divers can stay down a lot longer than that at the depth. Let's hope they recover the bodies.


  • #1435
    Coil Kilcrea
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 215 ✭✭Coil Kilcrea


    2forjoy wrote: »
    the Irish Times

    Is that per dive?
    How soon can they go back down?
    Doesn't give them an awful lot of time in difficult conditions.


  • #1436
    The_Wanderer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,111 ✭✭✭The_Wanderer


    elastico wrote: »
    As I understand it should have been flying at 4000 ft beginning its decent, but for some reason was flying at 220ft 12km from landing point. That bit makes no sense.

    What if they had Blacksod and Blackrock mixed up in the FMC? Considering the direct track from Dublin to Blackrock they took. This is the bit I cannot understand completely missing Blacksod, but looping over Blackrock twice (the second time being fatal).


  • #1437
    elastico
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭elastico


    Bear in mind the EGPWS not showing black rock may yet be a red herring.


  • #1438
    Gaoth Laidir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,262 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    Cianmcliam wrote: »
    The EGPWS is the very last resort though, even with it missing in the database it should surely have been on the maps so nothing should be flying anywhere near it unless planning to land you would think.

    Yes, the moving map is still the primary means of navigation, you would imagine. The question still remains if/how exactly Blackrock was portrayed on it.


  • #1439
    Coil Kilcrea
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 215 ✭✭Coil Kilcrea


    Cianmcliam wrote: »
    The EGPWS is the very last resort though, even with it missing in the database it should surely have been on the maps so nothing should be flying anywhere near it unless planning to land you would think.

    I fully agree. And if I recall correctly didn't someone here confirm that the crew had maps? A rock with a lighthouse must surely be known to experienced aviators.


  • #1440
    Gaoth Laidir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,262 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    If the onboard weather radar had a downward tilt then at such a low altitude would it fail to detect terrain until it was too late?


  • Advertisement
  • #1441
    horsefarm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 222 ✭✭horsefarm


    Kerrydude1981 wrote: »
    They said something about the software not been updated

    Its a terrifying thought. Its not like a car sat nav not being updated to show a new road network. Its an island that has ALWAYS been there!


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement