Rescue 116 Crash at Blackrock, Co Mayo(Mod note in post 1)

smurfjed · 20-03-2017 08:23PM

The S-92 FDR/CVR is one box called a Multi-Purpose Flight Recorder, commonly referred to as a "combi-unit", manufactured by Penny and Giles in the United Kingdom

Some may find this interesting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cougar_Helicopters_Flight_91

cosanostra · 20-03-2017 08:26PM

The_Wanderer wrote: »

Can anybody post some previous tracks of SAR craft landing at Blacksod?

The near identical tasking they were on on the 8th would be very interesting although wind direction and weather in general would change approach etc

smurfjed · 20-03-2017 08:26PM

Enhanced Ground Warning System (EGPWS)
Offshore Platform and Rig Approach
Enhanced Emergency Floatation System (EFFS- sea state 6)
Automatically Deployable Emergency Locater Transmitter (ADELT)

Its interesting to read the level of equipment in that helicopter.

Irish Steve · 20-03-2017 08:31PM

smurfjed wrote: »

Some may find this interesting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cougar_Helicopters_Flight_91

Makes for very sobering reading. Thanks for posting the link

ED E · 20-03-2017 08:57PM

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Is there a CVR on board or only a FDR?

From the Wiki link:

The S-92 FDR/CVR is one box called a Multi-Purpose Flight Recorder, commonly referred to as a "combi-unit", manufactured by Penny and Giles in the United Kingdom.

Cianmcliam · 20-03-2017 09:21PM

One thing about the timeline that would be helpful to clear up, early on in the investigation it was reported they were trying unsuccessfully to contact R118 and asked Shannon to try contacting them as well. Could the track out past Black Rock be explained by the attempt to contact R118 or had that been established already?

challengemaster · 20-03-2017 09:38PM

Cianmcliam wrote: »

One thing about the timeline that would be helpful to clear up, early on in the investigation it was reported they were trying unsuccessfully to contact R118 and asked Shannon to try contacting them as well. Could the track out past Black Rock be explained by the attempt to contact R118 or had that been established already?

There was no contact established with R118. If you listen to the Shannon ATC starting at 00:08, you will hear the following conversation. This is as best as I could transcribe it, given the bad audio quality in parts (and my lack of aviation background) so please note it might not be 100% word for word perfect. The audio file can be found here, if you wish to listen for yourself.

-Shannon rescue 116
-rescue 116 shannon
-contact with rescue 118
-I can try do a relay anyway
-rescue 118 shannon
-rescue 118 shannon
-contact LH8231 shannon
-Shannon LH8231 yes
-Can you do a relay for me to rescue 118 and ask him his approximate present position and his ETA for the vessel
-Okay so its callsign rescue 118 and you want a present position and ETA for the vessel
-Confirm, present position and ETA for the fishing vessel hes going out to
-Okay, what freq
-He should be on 122.980
-Rescue 118 Rescue 118 relay from lufthansa cargo
-Rescue 118 this is a relay from Shannon Lufthansa Cargo calling 118 on 122.98
- Shannon, No contact
-No contact, okay, thanks for trying
-Rescue 116, No comms from the Rescue 118, last I saw on radar he was about 100 miles west of your position now
-Roger copy that thanks....
-Thanks

LH8231 was much further west than blackrock at the time and couldn't reach R118

Also Shannon ATC was still trying to reach Rescue 116 at 1.35am, and moments after Shannon called, Rescue 118 made contact with Shannon ATC to notify them they were 100 miles west of blacksod just starting their return.
Shannon ATC asked them if they had any contact with R116, R118 replied with "negative".

Coil Kilcrea · 20-03-2017 09:42PM

Cianmcliam wrote: »

One thing about the timeline that would be helpful to clear up, early on in the investigation it was reported they were trying unsuccessfully to contact R118 and asked Shannon to try contacting them as well. Could the track out past Black Rock be explained by the attempt to contact R118 or had that been established already?

I could be mistaken but I thought a Lufthansa airliner had relayed some communications to R118. And to your point on timeline, had R118 proceeded West to effect the medevac before R116 arrived on station to provide top cover? Given the distance and time necessary to reach the trawler, there's surely an SOP that determines the timelines and distances to effect maximum cover.

Cianmcliam · 20-03-2017 09:52PM

Coil Kilcrea wrote: »

I could be mistaken but I thought a KLM airliner had relayed some communications to R118. And to your point on timeline, had R118 proceeded West to effect the medevac before R116 arrived on station to provide top cover? Given the distance and time necessary to reach the trawler, there's surely an SOP that determines the timelines and distances to effect maximum cover.

Going by the transcription above, it seems 118 was already enroute to the fishing boat before 116 reached Blacksod Bay. 116 was then going to top up their fuel before following 118. I was just wondering did they fly out a bit further to see if they could contact 118 and advise them they would follow after the fuel stop.

cosanostra · 20-03-2017 09:54PM

Cianmcliam wrote: »

One thing about the timeline that would be helpful to clear up, early on in the investigation it was reported they were trying unsuccessfully to contact R118 and asked Shannon to try contacting them as well. Could the track out past Black Rock be explained by the attempt to contact R118 or had that been established already?

Transcript of communication between Shannon atc and Rescue 116

Shannon ATC "how far west are you intending to go you're not going all the way to the ship are you"

Rescue 116 "eh well our intentions are not to go as far as the ship but it is a possibility, it is a possibility, we're having trouble getting *inaudible* with 118 at the moment but our intentions are to refuel on Blacksod refuel and we'll figure it out from there

Coil Kilcrea · 20-03-2017 10:03PM

Cianmcliam wrote: »

Going by the transcription above, it seems 118 was already enroute to the fishing boat before 116 reached Blacksod Bay. 116 was then going to top up their fuel before following 118. I was just wondering did they fly out a bit further to see if they could contact 118 and advise them they would follow after the fuel stop.

Agree. The transcript really does show the communications challenges not to mention the incredible skills of all concerned. Unbelievable.

Storm 10 · 20-03-2017 10:07PM

When 116 arrived at Blacksod 118 had gone off AIS so he was well out at that time

Coil Kilcrea · 20-03-2017 10:14PM

Storm 10 wrote: »

When 116 arrived at Blacksod 118 had gone off AIS so he was well out at that time

And on their own, communications wise, which supports the importance of top cover capability in such circumstances.

Psychlops · 20-03-2017 10:17PM

The_Wanderer wrote: »

Can anybody post some previous tracks of SAR craft landing at Blacksod?

The tracks don't show for more than a day or 2 as when the AIS gets turned off that's it, it is gone.

HeidiHeidi · 20-03-2017 10:24PM

Statement from the AAIU

http://afloat.ie/safety/coastguard/item/35297-aaiu-statement-on-investigation-into-the-loss-of-r116

Steve · 20-03-2017 10:29PM

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Statement from the AAIU

http://afloat.ie/safety/coastguard/item/35297-aaiu-statement-on-investigation-into-the-loss-of-r116

To quote:

The AAIU wishes to extend its sincere sympathies to the families and friends of the crew of R116.
The Chief Inspector of Air Accidents, Mr. Jurgen Whyte, in consultation with the appointed Investigator-in-Charge, Mr. Paul Farrell, wishes to make the following statement.
An AAIU investigation into the circumstances of the loss of R116 is underway. As with all AAIU investigations, this Investigation will be evidence based.
The Investigation has been working with the Garda Síochána, Coast Guard, Irish Air Corps, the Irish Marine Institute, and many local persons and agencies with the primary objective of locating and recovering the missing crew members.
In addition, the AAIU is anxious to recover and examine as much wreckage as possible, and in particular to recover the combined voice and flight data recorder (“black box”). The AAIU, in accordance with international convention, has an Accredited Representative from the US National Transportation Safety Board (as state of design and manufacture); that representative has advisers from the US Federal Aviation Administration and the aircraft manufacturer. The AAIU has also received assistance, support and advice from the UK Air Accidents Investigation Branch two of whose inspectors attended Blacksod.
A significant amount of wreckage has been recovered from the sea and this has been logged and will be brought to the AAIU wreckage facility in Gormanston, Co Meath, for detailed examination.
Furthermore, the AAIU has visited Black Rock Light House, on the approaches to Blacksod bay, which is close to the last recorded position of the helicopter. Some helicopter wreckage has been recovered from the general area of Black Rock Light House. This wreckage is primarily from the tail area of the helicopter. At this early stage in the investigation it is not possible to be definitive about the exact nature of damage to the recovered wreckage or indeed the circumstances of the accident. However, there appears to be marks on some of the recovered wreckage which are consistent with the tail of the aircraft contacting rocky surfaces on the Western end of Blackrock. The Investigation has not yet definitively identified the initial point of impact.
Equipment aboard surface search vessels has detected a signal which is believed to be from the underwater locator beacon attached to the aircraft’s “Black Box”. This signal points toward an area which will be the focus of further, multi-agency investigation activities at the earliest opportunity, subject to weather.

bronn · 20-03-2017 10:31PM

AAIU just confirmed on the 9pm news that a significant amount of wreckage has been recovered off the sea bed. The damage is consistent with the tail of the helicopter impacting rocks on Blackrock.

RIP, you poor people.

sidcon · 20-03-2017 10:38PM

However, there appears to be marks on some of the recovered wreckage which are consistent with the tail of the aircraft contacting rocky surfaces on the Western end of Blackrock. The Investigation has not yet definitively identified the initial point of impact.

So now it's confirmed, the question why did it hit the rocks.

Steve · 20-03-2017 10:42PM

sidcon wrote: »

The question why did it hit the rocks.

Indeed, that is why the AAIU exists. We must trust them to actually investigate in a forensic manner that doesn't involve internet people's opinions.

...And Justice · 20-03-2017 10:46PM

Steve wrote: »

Indeed, that is why the AAIU exists. We must trust them to actually investigate in a forensic manner that doesn't involve internet people's opinions.

Hopefully the helicopter is salvaged soon and the rest of the crew members can be laid to rest.

The_Wanderer · 20-03-2017 10:53PM

sidcon wrote: »

However, there appears to be marks on some of the recovered wreckage which are consistent with the tail of the aircraft contacting rocky surfaces on the Western end of Blackrock. The Investigation has not yet definitively identified the initial point of impact.

So now it's confirmed, the question why did it hit the rocks.

It tallies with what I was told yesterday as a theory based on the known evidence at the time I was told.

Big Nasty · 20-03-2017 11:00PM

With a craft so sophisticated and crew so experienced this is extremely sad news. We're all human as they say.

Jambo · 20-03-2017 11:01PM

Steve wrote: »

Indeed, that is why the AAIU exists. We must trust them to actually investigate in a forensic manner that doesn't involve internet people's opinions.

Could the reported contact with rocks be a result of an in flight failure? Rather than initial contact with blackrock resulting in where we are at now?

prunudo · 20-03-2017 11:10PM

Jambo wrote: »

Could it have hit the rocks as a result of an in flight failure?

It could be anything at this stage, just because they're saying there appears to be contact with rocks, it doesn't mean that it wasn't in trouble before it hit them.
Only time will tell but hopefully the weather picks up so they can return the bodies to the families.

Steve · 20-03-2017 11:12PM

Jambo wrote: »

Could the reported contact with rocks be a result of an in flight failure? Rather than initial contact with blackrock resulting in where we are at now?

Nobody can know or even speculate on that without full facts. That is why we must wait for the AAIU findings.

The_Wanderer · 20-03-2017 11:17PM

Steve wrote: »

Nobody can know or even speculate on that without full facts. That is why we must wait for the AAIU findings.

Speculation is part of human nature. Plus this new information is rather revealing which will probably be confirmed, once the blackbox is found and analysed.

CardinalJ · 20-03-2017 11:24PM

From anything ive read this evening I dont think theyve said the aircraft collided with Blackrock. A section of it may have. A section that may or may not have been connected to the aircraft. Im not speculating as to what the case actually is but I dont think anything is settled or obvious.

Hopefully sea conditions calm a bit and they can recover the remaining crew and the blackbox. Thats the only way there will be anything close to definite answers.

The more you read the more grim the whole situation is, but its good to see so many agencies working together. It must be so tough for the rest of the CHC crews sitting in Sligo, Shannon and Waterfors trying to go about business as normal. They're incredible.

NASlad · 20-03-2017 11:25PM

out of curiosity: is there a helicopter at all in dublin now? I would have presumed there was always 2 sikorskies in each base with a rotating roster/crews.

or is dublin without a chopper for the time being?

faoiarvok · 20-03-2017 11:27PM

NASlad wrote: »

out of curiosity: is there a helicopter at all in dublin now? I would have presumed there was always 2 sikorskies in each base with a rotating roster/crews.

or is dublin without a chopper for the time being?

The service was operated with 5 aircraft – one at each base and another rotating around the bases while other aircraft were down for maintenance.

The_Wanderer · 20-03-2017 11:28PM

Psychlops wrote: »

The tracks don't show for more than a day or 2 as when the AIS gets turned off that's it, it is gone.

Thanks for that.

Rescue 116 Crash at Blackrock, Co Mayo(Mod note in post 1)

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