Bus Eireann

Odyssey 2005 · 02-03-2017 02:55PM

Yourself isit wrote: »

I wonder just how many people here posing as customers in fact use BE to travel.

I am, as is one member of my family. Between us we would use BE 6/8 times weekly and are on one of the routes that's been cut. I don't see myself as a customer,I'm a service user. Whilst the drivers I encounter aren't crabby,they're not the life of the party either. They do the job...end of.
I personally couldn't give a toss about BE and they obviously don't give a toss about our custom,so in my eyes they can crash and burn (not literally of course).

Yourself isit · 02-03-2017 07:06PM

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

I am, as is one member of my family. Between us we would use BE 6/8 times weekly and are on one of the routes that's been cut. I don't see myself as a customer,I'm a service user. Whilst the drivers I encounter aren't crabby,they're not the life of the party either. They do the job...end of.
I personally couldn't give a toss about BE and they obviously don't give a toss about our custom,so in my eyes they can crash and burn (not literally of course).

That escalated quickly.

NegativeCreep · 02-03-2017 07:26PM

What are the odds of this strike affecting Dublin bus and the dart? Bus eireann can strike away, I don't really care

Odyssey 2005 · 02-03-2017 07:32PM

Yourself isit wrote: »

That escalated quickly.

Explain please .

Yourself isit · 02-03-2017 07:39PM

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

Explain please .

Read the bold bits.

Anyway you probably do have other options (private bus, train) which isn't true on the route past Kilkenny

melted_face · 02-03-2017 10:54PM

bus eireann employees don't deserve to lose money and the taxpayer deserves a decent public transport system throughout the entire country . ireland is run by a bunch of clowns . twas ever thus and twill always be .

02-03-2017 11:07PM

Yourself isit wrote: »

Secondly the buses run by the state now are generally of better quality than the private operators.

Absolute crap. I'd much rather Citylink's VanHool TX buses over the rubbish Bus Éireann SPs which I've endured so much from Limerick.

seamus wrote: »

But at the same time a hybrid model where the state runs the unprofitable routes would just create a wider divide - people in urban areas would have high-quality, fast and comfortable private services while rural dwellers would have terrible services driven by civil servants.

That wouldn't even be necessary. The state would provide the buses and pay a subsidy to the private operator to run the services. If done properly, there shouldn't be any divide.

Odyssey 2005 · 02-03-2017 11:20PM

Yourself isit wrote: »

Read the bold bits.

Anyway you probably do have other options (private bus, train) which isn't true on the route past Kilkenny

Escalated quickly ? What are you on about.?
You selected the bold bits..not me,and you selected them to try to prove your very weak argument.
You had better look deeper because I do live beyond kilkenny so trains are not an option and probably won't be for anyone after Monday.

Degag · 02-03-2017 11:26PM

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

The experience on a private carrier is much better.I use Bus Eireann every day for work but the few times I've had to use a private bus company it's been a much better experience.

1 thing that Bus Eireann Bus Drivers cannot seem to learn is that no-one wants to listen to their radio.99% of People when on the bus want to either sleep,read or listen to their own music not be forced to have to listen to the bus drivers choice of radio, how the hell do they not have the cop on to realise this and just have the radio on in their own area of the bus so that no-one else has to hear it.It happens constantly in my experience and it's just a sign of not giving a **** about the customer.

Don't really agree with this at all. If you want to listen to your own music then the radio shouldn't affect you at all and in my experience the radio was never loud enough to distract you from reading or sleeping.

And.... the majority of people on the bus are probably elderly people and the like who don't have music on their phones so they probably enjoy the radio.

I'd have alot of bad things to say about the bus service but this probably isn't one.

jimmycrackcorm · 02-03-2017 11:40PM

melted_face wrote: »

bus eireann employees don't deserve to lose money and the taxpayer deserves a decent public transport system throughout the entire country . ireland is run by a bunch of clowns . twas ever thus and twill always be .

Why do they not deserve to lose money? Private sector workers would lose money and have done so to save their companies. They're milking overtime and we are paying for it.

The taxpayer deserves a decent public transport system and should pay the PSO, but we shouldn't have to put up with overpaid cossetted bus workers when private companies would provide a much better service, and still be able to pay their employees a fair wage.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 02-03-2017 11:50PM

Degag wrote: »

Don't really agree with this at all. If you want to listen to your own music then the radio shouldn't affect you at all and in my experience the radio was never loud enough to distract you from reading or sleeping.

And.... the majority of people on the bus are probably elderly people and the like who don't have music on their phones so they probably enjoy the radio.

I'd have alot of bad things to say about the bus service but this probably isn't one.

It is actually.The radio simply should only be on on the front speakers where the driver is sitting not where the whole bus is forced to listen to it.Trust me I've been on plenty buses where it's been on loud enough to stop people from reading or sleeping.

I go on a bus where 95% of the people on it are going to a from work/colleges so there is absolutely no reason to have the radio on so I have no idea where you are getting the idea that the majority of people on it are elderly.

melted_face · 02-03-2017 11:55PM

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

private companies would provide a much better service, and still be able to pay their employees a fair wage.

no ... just no . what about the man who wants to get from craggagh to castlebar ? or the person who wants to get from cahirciveen to killarney and back in the same day in a semi reasonable time ?

as for paying their employees a fair wage , this is deluded

misstearheus · 03-03-2017 12:16AM

Am so sick of hearing about this. I wish somebody in B.E. would have the ball$ to start sacking a few of them or something.

Degag · 03-03-2017 12:25AM

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

It is actually.The radio simply should only be on on the front speakers where the driver is sitting not where the whole bus is forced to listen to it.Trust me I've been on plenty buses where it's been on loud enough to stop people from reading or sleeping.

I go on a bus where 95% of the people on it are going to a from work/colleges so there is absolutely no reason to have the radio on so I have no idea where you are getting the idea that the majority of people on it are elderly.

Your experience is different to mine obviously. On the routes that I used to travel, many of the people on the bus were elderly or people unlikely to have iPhones etc for music.

I just think that of the many things wrong with BE, the radio use of the driver is not one... again, in my experience.

Yourself isit · 03-03-2017 01:47AM

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

Escalated quickly ? What are you on about.?
You selected the bold bits..not me,and you selected them to try to prove your very weak argument.
You had better look deeper because I do live beyond kilkenny so trains are not an option and probably won't be for anyone after Monday.

Jesus you are one humourless poster.

You went from saying BE do their job to

I personally couldn't give a toss about BE and they obviously don't give a toss about our custom,so in my eyes they can crash and burn

That's an escalation.

If you do depend on BE then expecting private sector to be better is probably not going to work out for you. Some routes, yes. But most no.

Even conservative voters on the UK want to nationalise rail.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/11/04/nationalise-energy-and-rail-companies-say-public/

end of the road · 03-03-2017 02:45AM

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I've said it before and I'll say it again public service workers should not be allowed to strike.They provide key services that people need and we're all paying taxes for them so there is no way in hell they should be closed because of an industrial dispute.They want to picket on their time off absolutely but services should not be shut down.

not allowing public service workers to strike would be against workers rights, and they would find ways around it so such a rule would be a waste of time.

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Busaras and Broadstone would get a good price in todays market

possibly, but they are vital pieces of infrastructure and must remain in state hands. Broadstone should have been reopened as a railway station and Busaras is a vital connection point to dart and luas.

Nomis21 wrote: »

The Irish Government might decide to take a look at what the UK did when faced with a similar problem back in the 80's...

The National Bus Company that ran nearly all the bus routes in the UK was disbanded and private operators were offered the right to bid to run each route on the network based on their operating costs for the route and were paid their accepted bid offer to run the service. All fares collected were given to the authority advertising for the bids.

Yes, older vehicles were used, driver wages were lower and depots were sold and buses parked out in the open. Many drivers who lost their jobs received redundancy payments and many also accepted employment by the private companies at reduced rates of pay.

that only happened in london. the rest was de-regulated and mass route withdrawels happened, predatory actions by companies to drive out other companies, and the rest took place. britain suffers hugely because of it, bus use has declined massively outside london. even in london the subsidies increased massively as the new companies had to make a profit which they are entitled to make whereas the old public companies didn't.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote: »

I couldn't agree more. The feeling is mutual too. I once had to get a BE bus to Dublin from a stop at the roadside. Only had a €50 note. The driver just shrugged and said he couldn't break it, he had no change. Only for someone on the bus helped me out, he'd have put me off.

and he would have been entitled to, as he is not supposed to take you if you do not pay your fare. it is your responsibility to have the correct change and to pay the correct fare. this driver had no change which was unfortunate, but he would have been doing his job correctly by refusing to take you had you not been able to pay the correct fare via some means. a 50 euro note is a lot to break as well to be fair.

end of the road · 03-03-2017 03:23AM

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Disgusting CIE unions expecting the PAYE worker to pamper and indulge them like mortal gods. They can go fook right off.

The days of semi-state unions being the only game is town is over. We are talking about a company that until it was forced into doing it by private operators said there was no demand for bus travel between Ireland's cities after tea time...until very recently the last BE bus between Dublin and COrk was 6PM. This was to suit CIE Unions lifestyles, not public transport users.

there are no disgusting unions in ireland. not running busses after tea and not running more intercity and non-stop routes was a bad move, but lets face it had they tried such routes and more services and been proven right that there was actually no demand, the shills and the whining would be heard in southern yemen. damned if they did, damned that they didn't.

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Things are different now. We actually have hundreds of thousands of business and commercial daily public transport commuters in Ireland now thanks to Luas and private bus operators winning them over. The days of CIE unions having a few grannies and priests as customers/bargaining chips is history.

The commuter holds the power now and will expect a hard line on the CIE unions or else they will punish the politicians come election time. As for the CIE unions, they are unaware of 21st century Ireland. They are perpetually living in the 1970s. Extinction looming. This will be their Waterloo.

wishful thinking on your part, with no basis in reality. only those who rely on the service and want it kept going have the power, and they will expect the company to remain open and continue to provide their services. the politicians will only be punished come election time if the company goes to the wall and months or more without service looms. the modern irish unions are going nowhere as much as you would like it to happen. workers rights and their enforcers shall continue to prevail.

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I do actually.It involves holding the country to ransom until the government caves.They shouldn't be allowed to do that.

the country is never held to ransom by a strike. the users of the service will be inconvenienced, which is very regretible, but for the most part it's necessary and for the greater good. i personally believe this particular strike to be unnecessary myself and unlikely to solve anything, but i shall respect the democratic decisian made by the staff to take such action, as it is my duty to do so.

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Please explain how Bus Eireann workers are being mistreated?

Bus Eireann workers are overpaid compared to private bus drivers.Why are they being paid more than the going rate for their job? Could that possibly be why the company is short of money.

We let go 25 people from our office last year and they had no choice but to accept it because there just wasn't any work for these people.That's the way it is for the vast majority of people.

Why should the general public suffer despite having done nothing wrong.

This strike is not about standing up for anyone apart from themselves it isn't a sign of some stand being made for the working classes who are being exploited because by and large most workers aren't being exploited by their employers. Nobody will benefit from this strike apart from those striking they are looking after themselves and only themselves.

I'm not denying the workers right to protest and stand up for themselves as anyone should but I don't think they should be allowed to disrupt hundreds of thousands of people who depend on the service.

I'm all for a better bus service and I don't have a problem with them making losses as that is what happens with public transport companies as they sometimes have to provide a service that is not profitable for the public good but why are the workers being paid well above the market rate for doing the exact same job.It doesn't make any sense.Everybody else in the world has to put up with being paid the market rate for the job they do, that's the way the world works.

The pensions our retired politicians receive are nothing short of a disgrace they but this has absolutely nothing to do with this issue.

bus eireann drivers aren't over paid compared to the privates nor are they paid more then the privates or paid over the market rate. it is the allowences that bump up pay to a bit more, but they are being cut or with-drawn. bus eireann drivers are paid the market rate.

end of the road · 03-03-2017 03:25AM

Idbatterim wrote: »

The best outcome is total privitisation. There are pros and cons when it comes to nationalised v private in general. The problem in ireland is, with extremes weak governance. The main purpose of cie is to maintain outrageous work practices and pay. Serving the customer is a mere inconvenience... these clowns were looking for 21% increases not long ago! In the real world their salaries and jobs would have been cut a long time ago. Believe me, the biggest benefactors if the company has been poorly run, has been the employees, laughably enough! Anyone who uses cie if they have a choice, is part of the problem!

Also why give them a cent more than statutory minimum redundancy. Let them stand side by side in solidarity" with their private sector brothers! Lol

total privatization would cost way to much and huge amounts of route cuts would have to happen in times of austerity. it's not an option and the cons are to great. the supposed pros have been proven false. irelands governments are not weak and never have been. they are entitled to full redundantsy and must do what is necessary to get it if it comes to it. their salaries are at the market rate, it is the allowences which bring up pay, and which are now being cut or with-drawn.

NegativeCreep wrote: »

What are the odds of this strike affecting Dublin bus and the dart? Bus eireann can strike away, I don't really care

the odds i'd say would be rather low. dublin bus have only 1 shared facility with bus eireann as far as i know, and that facility services infrequent routes and peak time extra services from what i understand. i am unsure about dart and if any shared facilities exist. however both dart and dublin bus won't be on strike and any effects at shared facilities will probably cause very minimal issues over all i reccan. time will tell though so just be prepared anyway.

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Why do they not deserve to lose money? Private sector workers would lose money and have done so to save their companies. They're milking overtime and we are paying for it.

The taxpayer deserves a decent public transport system and should pay the PSO, but we shouldn't have to put up with overpaid cossetted bus workers when private companies would provide a much better service, and still be able to pay their employees a fair wage.

private companies wouldn't provide a much better service as like bus eireann they would simply be given targets to meet. bus eireann meet all their targets as set down by the national transport authority from what i understand. that is in relation to the PSO services.

misstearheus wrote: »

Am so sick of hearing about this. I wish somebody in B.E. would have the ball$ to start sacking a few of them or something.

no balls needed, sacking staff for nothing can't be done.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 03-03-2017 06:25AM

end of the road wrote: »

the country is never held to ransom by a strike. the users of the service will be inconvenienced, which is very regretible, but for the most part it's necessary and for the greater good. i personally believe this particular strike to be unnecessary myself and unlikely to solve anything, but i shall respect the democratic decisian made by the staff to take such action, as it is my duty to do so.

bus eireann drivers aren't over paid compared to the privates nor are they paid more then the privates or paid over the market rate. it is the allowences that bump up pay to a bit more, but they are being cut or with-drawn. bus eireann drivers are paid the market rate.

The country is being held to ransom.Bus Eireann workers are saying do what we want or we'll severely inconvenience hundreds of thousands of people until you do what we want.That is basically what being held to ransom is.

Bus Eireann workers are taking home more money than private bus drivers therefore they are being paid more than the market rate.It doesn't matter how this is achieved they are taking home more money that private bus drivers therefore they are being paid more than the market rate.

See link below

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/private-bus-operators-pay-lower-wages-than-bus-éireann-1.2802281

Wanderer78 · 03-03-2017 06:46AM

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote:

Bus Eireann workers are taking home more money than private bus drivers therefore they are being paid more than the market rate.It doesn't matter how this is achieved they are taking home more money that private bus drivers therefore they are being paid more than the market rate.

We truly need to stop with this 'market' nonsense, (not so) free market economics is a bust. It's a utopian view of how to run our economies, resulting in increasing worker insecurity, which financially only truly benefits the few. It's a train wreck of a system

Dirty Dingus McGee · 03-03-2017 08:59AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

We truly need to stop with this 'market' nonsense, (not so) free market economics is a bust. It's a utopian view of how to run our economies, resulting in increasing worker insecurity, which financially only truly benefits the few. It's a train wreck of a system

Fair enough but how the hell else do you set what the wage for somebody should be?

It tends to be quite a good way because the market reflects supply and demand for labour and supply and demand is how the price for everything is set.

Wanderer78 · 03-03-2017 12:47PM

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote:

Fair enough but how the hell else do you set what the wage for somebody should be?

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote:

It tends to be quite a good way because the market reflects supply and demand for labour and supply and demand is how the price for everything is set.

It's a very good question and one I'm unable to answer, but I'd agree with Australian economist Steve keen that things such as supply and demand, and market equilibrium are complete nonsense. I personally believe that a lot of market demand, particularly in consumables is actually artificially created, mainly through marketing and advertisement. It's effectively a micky mouse system created on the back of bull**** economic theory.

I'd disagree with your last statement, it's not a good way of setting wages as a lot of the time, 'the market' often does not take into consideration the actual cost of living into its model, in particular the rising amounts of private debt, leading to a race to the bottom. This model is unsustainable and we better come up with something different and fast, we can't keep creating working poor.

Glenster · 03-03-2017 02:07PM

Buses are stupid

Unions are stupid

therefore unions are buses.

magentis · 03-03-2017 05:43PM

So how much exactly did these white elephant 900,000 water meters cost to install?Meanwhile a vital piece of national infrastucture is being strangled of funding.

jimmycrackcorm · 03-03-2017 07:36PM

Wanderer78 wrote:

We truly need to stop with this 'market' nonsense, (not so) free market economics is a bust. It's a utopian view of how to run our economies, resulting in increasing worker insecurity, which financially only truly benefits the few. It's a train wreck of a system

I guess you refuse to fly Ryanair then given they are a good example of this market nonsense.

Wanderer78 · 03-03-2017 07:55PM

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I guess you refuse to fly Ryanair then given they are a good example of this market nonsense.

ah more crap again, of course i do, i will agree with deirdre mccloskey that customers are benefitting from these systems but i do agree with those that say a major drawback of these systems in their current format is 'increasing worker insecurity', the only problem with this is, the majority of customers are workers. its becoming clearly obvious that if we continue as is, our current economic systems will collapse our socioeconomic and environmental systems. i do think its possible to create economic systems that share wealth more evenly and reduce our environmental impact, the only problem is, nobody really knows how to do this and since our current systems truly only benefit the few financially, these vested interests are deeply bedded down. again id agree with mccloskey, most would prefer to live in a capitalist system, including myself, rather than other alternatives, but theres something fundamentally wrong with neoliberalism, its simply, not working. the only way i can see of not living in this capitalist system is to live off the grid, not an easy task.

Awesomeness · 23-03-2017 04:52PM

All out strike beginning at midnight tonight

Dravokivich · 23-03-2017 05:20PM

magentis wrote: »

So how much exactly did these white elephant 900,000 water meters cost to install?Meanwhile a vital piece of national infrastucture is being strangled of funding.

I recall a radio interview in Oct 2015. A large portion of Irish Water's initial funding was not by the government, but by debt. I never was one for business studies in school, so I'm unsure if that's common/uncommon. But I understand it to mean that hasn't been paid for yet. And will cost more whenever it eventually is.

I feel too uneasy with all this Commercial and Consumer debt malarky. Paying more to get something sooner because we'll be able to pay for it later...

Anyhow, I don't think that's Bus Eireann's issue, nor am I too sure if Irish Water may have to do with it. Some folks seem to feel they invested too much into their fleet. Which I'd expect drives up operational costs.

sjb25 · 23-03-2017 05:22PM

Awesomeness wrote: »

All out strike beginning at midnight tonight

I never ever ever have gotten the bus the one day I want to get the bus to go collect my new car they go on strike

ah well may try the train out so

Dravokivich · 23-03-2017 05:24PM

sjb25 wrote: »

I never ever ever have gotten the bus the one day I want to get the bus to go collect my new car they go on strike ah well may try the train out so

The one day you need to use public transport, you're reminded why you don't. :pac:

Bus Eireann

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