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The urgent need to reduce the cost of labour in Ireland.

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Comments

  • #32
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    My apologies, nothing, other than these people took the time and effort to stuff the boxes, effectively ruining the whole recycle effort and overall costs of the scheme. The companies then have to make up these extra costs and perhaps could push it on their employees to take less wages.

    Are you for real??
    So it is their employees fault that someone didn't follow the rules of recycling and they should suffer in their pocked for it.. :rolleyes:


  • #33
    koutoubia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,323 ✭✭✭koutoubia


    I work for a waste management company.
    WRT to contamination of Recycling bins.....It's already in place where Recycling bins are spot checked and if found to be contaminated then the bin won't be lifted by the Recycling truck but instead lifted by the waste truck . That account will then be charged for a waste lift.


  • #34
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    K.Flyer wrote: »
    Are you for real??
    So it is their employees fault that someone didn't follow the rules of recycling and they should suffer in their pocked for it.. :rolleyes:

    Where did I say that. Are you for real?


  • #35
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Where did I say that. Are you for real?
    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    My apologies, nothing, other than these people took the time and effort to stuff the boxes, effectively ruining the whole recycle effort and overall costs of the scheme. The companies then have to make up these extra costs and perhaps could push it on their employees to take less wages.

    Push employees to take less wages due to someone not using their recycling facilities correctly.


  • #36
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    K.Flyer wrote: »
    Push employees to take less wages due to someone not using their recycling facilities correctly.
    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    My apologies, nothing, other than these people took the time and effort to stuff the boxes, effectively ruining the whole recycle effort and overall costs of the scheme. The companies then have to make up these extra costs and perhaps could push it on their employees to take less wages.

    Did you miss the word Perhaps. It means an awful lot in context of my post. Businesses will cut costs anywhere they can to survive.


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  • #37
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Did you miss the word Perhaps. It means an awful lot in context of my post. Businesses will cut costs anywhere they can to survive.

    When I read your post the word "could" after the word "perhaps" came across to me that it would be an acceptable practice to cut wages due to someone else's poor quality control systems.
    Instead why not suggest that they penalise whoever delivered that load to them, so that they in turn can improve their standards of monitoring of what they collect.
    In my opinion what greatly needs to be addressed in this country is the raising of the standard of quality of services and accountability.


  • #38
    Donal55
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭Donal55


    How come QC at the Recycling/Picking plant missed all this contaminated waste, yet QC at the Dutch end didn't?

    That's where Reality's pay cut should start.


  • #39
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Donal55 wrote: »
    How come QC at the Recycling/Picking plant missed all this contaminated waste, yet QC at the Dutch end didn't?

    That's where Reality's pay cut should start.

    The Dutch used oxygen detectors to determine the presence of the organic contamination, not visual inspection.

    The shipper also, apparently, by-passed the controls here on waste going for export.


  • #40
    CrabRevolution
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    If I was working in a waste processing facility for minimum wage on a zero hours contract, I don't think cutting my pay would make me more diligent and dedicated to doing a good job!

    "The beatings will continue until morale improves"


  • #41
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    The PRSI contribution and red tape around employment is ridiculously over the top. It's not necessarily wages, it's all the crap that goes around employing somebody that kills companies. It's costly, it's time consuming, it's beurocratic nonsense.

    It's much lower here than most countries in Europe.


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  • #42
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,413 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    If we want to cut the cost of living and labour then the obvious issue to tackle is the cost of housing.

    The government should CPO tracts of land and offer incentives to get low cost housing built.


  • #43
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    If we want to cut the cost of living and labour then the obvious issue to tackle is the cost of housing.

    The government should CPO tracts of land and offer incentives to get low cost housing built.
    Been done before with not very good results, lots of council houses with no amenities equals a recipe for disaster.


  • #44
    Donal55
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭Donal55


    K.Flyer wrote: »
    Been done before with not very good results, lots of council houses with no amenities equals a recipe for disaster.

    True. And yet on the private side we've lots of houses built in villages and small towns with no amenities either.
    We really can't do anything right in this country.


  • #45
    Donal55
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭Donal55


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    If we want to cut the cost of living and labour then the obvious issue to tackle is the cost of housing.

    The government should CPO tracts of land and offer incentives to get low cost housing built.

    During the week the CSO updated the CPI. There were lots of items included and lots of old items, such as video recorders etc excluded and replaced by more modern electronics.

    I didn't hear however if two of the main costs ie, rent and insurance were included.
    Would anyone know?
    Thanks.


  • #46
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,291 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    realitykeeper wrote:
    In that chicken & egg scenario, cost of labour must fall first.


    Not with the cost of renting accommodation


  • #47
    Donal55
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭Donal55


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Not with the cost of renting accommodation

    Exactly. Rental costs already at 06/07 levels and most people haven't received payrises in years.


  • #48
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,024 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Donal55 wrote:
    True. And yet on the private side we've lots of houses built in villages and small towns with no amenities either. We really can't do anything right in this country.

    If you prevented house building because of lack of amenities in small villages, you'd be the nanny state. Whinging makes it very difficult to win by doing anything when in government. Doing nothing is often the best course but they nothing gets done. People need to accept that sometimes (often) picking the least bad option is to be applauded.


  • #49
    Mancomb Seepgood
    Closed Accounts Posts: 417 ✭✭Mancomb Seepgood


    K.Flyer wrote: »
    Been done before with not very good results, lots of council houses with no amenities equals a recipe for disaster.

    Council estates were all too often built without adequate amenities (or any amenities at all).

    At the same though,they did provide decent housing for large numbers of people and we're a damn sight better than some of the collapsing inner city tenements that they replaced.There is no reason why the mistakes of the past must be repeated.


  • #50
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    The 'polluter pays' principle shows that our politicians arent thinking holistically about our waste issues, even though waste is everybody's problem, very little emphasis is being made of these issues at the very beginning of the process, I.e. material and product creation manufacturers. This has lead me to create the idea of the 'creator pays' principle, this is whereby the creators of our materials and products also 'pay' their fair share along with the 'polluter', in order to deal with these issues.
    Part of the problem is that most of what we consume is made elsewhere, thereby limiting control of manufacturing/packaging. Otherwise, a valid point.


  • #51
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    PCX wrote: »
    What I'm not sure of is what would be the end goal you are trying to achieve in reducing wages etc.

    Is it to make it easier for foreign companies to come here and make larger profits while not having to pass any benefits on to the 'natives'?

    In the system you are advocating the rich will get richer while the vast majority of the population will have much reduced standards of living.

    I don't want to live in a country like that but if you do there are plenty of third world countries that operate like that you can move to.
    Low pay is more likely to facilitate home grown industry with export potential. Low pay makes environmental regeneration projects possible. So much good can come of low pay! Think about it, an Irish person expects more money than an African or Asian per hour worked which means the Irish are more reluctant to work. This will have negative consequences for Ireland.


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  • #52
    Mancomb Seepgood
    Closed Accounts Posts: 417 ✭✭Mancomb Seepgood


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    Low pay is more likely to facilitate home grown industry with export potential. Low pay makes environmental regeneration projects possible. So much good can come of low pay! Think about it, an Irish person expects more money than an African or Asian per hour worked which means the Irish are more reluctant to work. This will have negative consequences for Ireland.

    Hang on.. higher pay acts as a disincentive to work?Are you sure you've thought this through?

    Why on earth would people in this country want to reduce their pay and quality of life in search of low skilled manufacturing jobs from which it is quite possible that they will be displaced by new technology/robots in a matter of a few years?


  • #53
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Phoebas wrote: »
    So we can compete with the Netherlands?
    If they are doing waste recycling for us, the its probably because they've invested in technology to do it, not because they are paying low wages.
    Ireland borrows money to pay public sector workers high salaries. With that monkey on our backs, Ireland is not a feasible location to invest. This is why cheap labour must come back.


  • #54
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,831 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Sorry, the OP seems to have a mish mash of ideas, without any logic tying them together.
    Lower wages for the rest of the pop, will affect public pay in some way?


  • #55
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    When you say 'labour' and social welfare, it brings to mind physical trades which which aren't exactly highly paid to begin with.

    Are you proposing reducing all wages or just the wages of the already lowly paid?

    Instead big starting by reducing wages of people on the breadline, how about we start by reducing the wages of those who can afford it?
    Not all pay necessarily. For example, high tech multinationals and private sector generally can continue to pay current salaries. I am referring to state/semi state employees and low skilled workers many of whom are unemployed. Abolishing the minimum wage would encourage the growth of indigenous export industry and drive all salaries down to some extent which is fine as costs would fall.


  • #56
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Jawgap wrote: »

    We can't process waste in Ireland to recycle it because we don't have enough - it is an industry/activity that requires serious scale to be profitable,
    This can`t do attitude is not profitable, nor can it be sold abroad unless your business is a trade union.


  • #57
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    Part of the problem is that most of what we consume is made elsewhere, thereby limiting control of manufacturing/packaging. Otherwise, a valid point.

    We've huge control over packaging, it's manufacturing and its fate - just look at the reams of EU legislation covering it.


  • #58
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    This can`t do attitude is not profitable, nor can it be sold abroad unless your business is a trade union.

    It's nothing to do with a "can't do" attitude, it's to do with the economic reality of recycling material and the price of it compared to new material.


  • #59
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Donal55 wrote: »
    Didn't the cost of Labour just fall off a cliff between 2008 and 2013?
    No it just stepped down from the mesosphere to the stratosphere.


  • #60
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Jawgap wrote: »
    That's the reality.....it'll fall off another cliff when QE causes the world to end too ;)

    410291.JPG
    Very interesting chart. It is a bit like economic hyperventilation. Reblowing the bubble is not the solution. Pay must fall properlyto facilitate a real and sustainable recovery.


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  • #61
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭pablo128


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    No it just stepped down from the mesosphere to the stratosphere.

    I'll tell you what. You'll never be short of work if you do it for nothing.

    Out of interest, could you tell me how many euro per hour you would consider to be the minimum acceptable in Ireland if wages were to be lowered.


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