Baby Farms

jameorahiely · 20-02-2017 10:41PM #1

I was reading an article about the couple from Kerry about their journey through surrogacy.

Baby farms, as they are known as in India facilitates at lot of surrogacies. Women live in dormatory rooms for the duration of the pregnancy. With the money they're paid, the often use it to build a house. Often, they must move away from their hometown due to harassment from their neighbours.

This process raises many ethical concerns.

Should we have a cut off age for commissioning parents? Is it right a ninety year old to produce children in this manner?

Is farming women morally right? (I'd be particularly interested in vegetarians views on this)

Should we introduce baby farms here? (If we have no issue with putting Indian/Czech etc wen in this sititation, we'd have no problem with farms here)

diomed · 20-02-2017 10:48PM

no, no, no, no.

osarusan · 20-02-2017 10:49PM

jameorahiely wrote: »

Is farming women morally right? (I'd be particularly interested in vegetarians views on this)

:pac:

stimpson · 20-02-2017 11:01PM

jameorahiely wrote: »

Is farming women morally right? (I'd be particularly interested in vegetarians views on this)

I think dairy farming is fine as long as I can help with the milking.

Seth Brundle · 20-02-2017 11:04PM

jameorahiely wrote: »

Is it right a ninety year old to produce children in this manner?

A ninety year old having babies?

20-02-2017 11:05PM

Ah, A Market for Babies...a rather famous and thought provoking essay in its day...

https://www.jstor.org/stable/825475?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

wakka12 · 20-02-2017 11:06PM

jameorahiely wrote: »

I was reading an article about the couple from Kerry about their journey through surrogacy.

Baby farms, as they are known as in India facilitates at lot of surrogacies. Women live in dormatory rooms for the duration of the pregnancy. With the money they're paid, the often use it to build a house. Often, they must move away from their hometown due to harassment from their neighbours.

This process raises many ethical concerns.

Should we have a cut off age for commissioning parents? Is it right a ninety year old to produce children in this manner?

Is farming women morally right? (I'd be particularly interested in vegetarians views on this)

Should we introduce baby farms here? (If we have no issue with putting Indian/Czech etc wen in this sititation, we'd have no problem with farms here)

Why is that relevant? Those women gave consent to be 'farmed' for their babies, animals did not. Also the animals are being killed, the women arent.

technics_1210 · 20-02-2017 11:08PM

this would suit my wife perfectly,

we want a baby but we have no free time,

as long as all parties to the contract

then i say yes,

jameorahiely · 20-02-2017 11:23PM

wakka12 wrote: »

Why is that relevant? Those women gave consent to be 'farmed' for their babies, animals did not. Also the animals are being killed, the women arent.

Would you like to see Baby farms set up here in Ireland, or is it only for poor women in other countries? Would you bring your kids for a visit in a Sunday afternoon for a gander?

Why stop at babies, would you like to see the market expanded to include toddlers?

Would you agree with kidney farms aswell? Consent given and no killing?

There is a more sinister side to this aswell. Interpol investigated a man who had 19 children ordered. The were wondering what he was going to do with them, traffic them or exploit them. Should we have a limit on the number of children allowed to be reared by people?

soups05 · 20-02-2017 11:26PM

who gets to be the stud in this farm?

RobbingBandit · 20-02-2017 11:30PM

Thought this was a recruitment drive for super virile men needed to make the armies of tomorrow, aka project baby farm, can I get this post redacted as I've probably said too much already.

Dr Crayfish · 20-02-2017 11:31PM

Why are so many couples desperate to adopt? I can never really understand this. Are some women just empty voids with no purpose in life if they can't conceive? Are people looking for baby band aids for their dull and miserable marriages? Suck it up and get on with your life, the world is overpopulated anyway, the more sterile people the better!

whoopsadoodles · 20-02-2017 11:33PM

Damn vegetarians. Always eatin the babies.

whoopsadoodles · 20-02-2017 11:35PM

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Why are so many couples desperate to adopt? I can never really understand this. Are some women just empty voids with no purpose in life if they can't conceive? Are people looking for baby band aids for their dull and miserable marriages? Suck it up and get on with your life, the world is overpopulated anyway, the more sterile people the better!

Jesus. Christ.

wakka12 · 20-02-2017 11:36PM

jameorahiely wrote: »

Would you like to see Baby farms set up here in Ireland, or is it only for poor women in other countries? Would you bring your kids for a visit in a Sunday afternoon for a gander?

Why stop at babies, would you like to see the market expanded to include toddlers?

Would you agree with kidney farms aswell? Consent given and no killing?

There is a more sinister side to this aswell. Interpol investigated a man who had 19 children ordered. The were wondering what he was going to do with them, traffic them or exploit them. Should we have a limit on the number of children allowed to be reared by people?

If somebody wanted to set it up, and there were Irish women interested in partaking then Id have no problem.
Yes, if somebody wants to give away their kidney then I also have no problem with that. Its not a smart thing to do and I think it should be very difficult for them to find a doctor to perform such an unethical surgery on them, though.

And Id put more emphasis on strict laws surrounding the adoptions, making sure the are going to safe homes, rather than simply capping a number of children allowed on it.

osarusan · 20-02-2017 11:36PM

whoopsadoodles wrote: »

Jesus. Christ.

shaping up to be the worst thread ever.

jameorahiely · 20-02-2017 11:37PM

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Why are so many couples desperate to adopt? I can never really understand this. Are some women just empty voids with no purpose in life if they can't conceive? Are people looking for baby band aids for their dull and miserable marriages? Suck it up and get on with your life, the world is overpopulated anyway, the more sterile people the better!

Harsh.

The government could give sterile people a few grand/year for a holiday (once they don't go buying babies with it, maybe give in in vouchers)

Pawwed Rig · 20-02-2017 11:37PM

If you believe women have agency to make their own decisions then I can't see how you can object to them using their bodies for whatever they want.

jameorahiely · 20-02-2017 11:40PM

wakka12 wrote: »

If somebody wanted to set it up, and there were Irish women interested in partaking then Id have no problem.
Yes, if somebody wants to give away their kidney then I also have no problem with that. Its not a smart thing to do and I think it should be very difficult for them to find a doctor to perform such an unethical surgery on them, though.

And Id put more emphasis on strict laws surrounding the adoptions, making sure the are going to safe homes, rather than simply capping a number of children allowed on it.

It's not adoption though. In the Ukraine, the surrogate has no rights over the child and from the moment of conception, the comissioning parents are the legal patemts. Technically, they own the woman for the duration of the pregancy.

jameorahiely · 20-02-2017 11:45PM

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

If you believe women have agency to make their own decisions then I can't see how you can object to them using their bodies for whatever they want.

So you'd have no issue with a man going in and ordering 10 kids?

RobbingBandit wrote: »

10 kids think of the childrens allowance, would I have to feed the kids or could I just return them for new ones every few months.

Cumsooner laws would apply I'd imagine

Refund
Replace
Repair

But seriously, what would happen to children who were injured during birth/ not fully developed or in some way did not measure up to the comissioning patents expectations?

If the comissioning parents changed their mind half way through, would the child kust be aborted?

Dr Crayfish · 20-02-2017 11:56PM

whoopsadoodles wrote: »

Jesus. Christ.

He was immaculately conceived, doesn't belong in this thread

munster87 · 20-02-2017 11:59PM

wakka12 wrote: »

Why is that relevant? Those women gave consent to be 'farmed' for their babies, animals did not. Also the animals are being killed, the women arent.

Babies are the only meat vegetarians can eat, I heard.

gctest50 · 21-02-2017 12:05AM

jameorahiely wrote: »

..........Should we introduce baby farms here? ...........

The church here had them decades ago

jameorahiely wrote: »

.......................But seriously, what would happen to children who were injured during birth/ not fully developed or in some way did not measure up to the comissioning patents expectations?

the nuns used to dump those ones in the septic tank

ceadaoin. · 21-02-2017 12:08AM

jameorahiely wrote: »

But seriously, what would happen to children who were injured during birth/ not fully developed or in some way did not measure up to the comissioning patents expectations?

If the comissioning parents changed their mind half way through, would the child kust be aborted?

Pretty sure there's already been a case where the child was born with Down's syndrome and the would be parents wouldn't take the child, leaving them to be raised by the surrogate

Edit here is a link to story. The parents sound like scumbags tbh

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/baby-gammy-australian-father-who-abandoned-down-syndrome-surrogate-child-now-tries-to-access-funds-10261916.html%3Famp?client=safari

RobertKK · 21-02-2017 12:09AM

For some, surrogacy is the only option.

One would hope the surrogate mothers are treated properly.

infogiver · 21-02-2017 12:14AM

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Why are so many couples desperate to adopt? I can never really understand this. Are some women just empty voids with no purpose in life if they can't conceive? Are people looking for baby band aids for their dull and miserable marriages? Suck it up and get on with your life, the world is overpopulated anyway, the more sterile people the better!

Well here's sincerely hoping that the urge to procreate never ever comes on you. Your not fit to parent right now and possibly never will be. Children deserve better then the likes of you.
Take your own ideology and have yourself sterilised ASAP.

ohnonotgmail · 21-02-2017 12:18AM

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

If you believe women have agency to make their own decisions then I can't see how you can object to them using their bodies for whatever they want.

The key word in that sentence is the if.

jameorahiely · 21-02-2017 12:20AM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Pretty sure there's already been a case where the child was born with Down's syndrome and the would be parents wouldn't take the child, leaving them to be raised by the surrogate

Edit here is a link to story. The parents sound like scumbags tbh

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/baby-gammy-australian-father-who-abandoned-down-syndrome-surrogate-child-now-tries-to-access-funds-10261916.html%3Famp?client=safari

That's a very disturbing story. Surrogacy is banned in most of Europe. I don't know why we'd entertain it. Cases like this would only become more prevalent.

21-02-2017 12:21AM

jameorahiely wrote: »

Would you like to see Baby farms set up here in Ireland, or is it only for poor women in other countries? Would you bring your kids for a visit in a Sunday afternoon for a gander?

Why stop at babies, would you like to see the market expanded to include toddlers?

Would you agree with kidney farms aswell? Consent given and no killing?

There is a more sinister side to this aswell. Interpol investigated a man who had 19 children ordered. The were wondering what he was going to do with them, traffic them or exploit them. Should we have a limit on the number of children allowed to be reared by people?

On the other hand, if it was all legalised and above board...is there anything more fantastic than the idea that couples who desperately want to have a child but are unlucky get to have what they dream of, and presumably give a child a chance at life if they are rich enough to afford surrogacy, and someone who is willing to give up their body for the best part of a year is richly rewarded? My only issue with it, once it was all legal, is that it would be denied to those who can't afford it.

jameorahiely · 21-02-2017 12:24AM

Deleted User wrote: »

On the other hand, if it was all legalised and above board...is there anything more fantastic than the idea that couples who desperately want to have a child but are unlucky get to have what they dream of, and presumably give a child a chance at life if they are rich enough to afford surrogacy, and someone who is willing to give up their body for the best part of a year is richly rewarded? My only issue with it, once it was all legal, is that it would be denied to those who can't afford it.

The price of it would increase dramatically. What Irish woman would do it for 8,000 payment? You'd get more than that on the dole.

jameorahiely · 21-02-2017 12:26AM

wakka12 wrote: »

If somebody wanted to set it up, and there were Irish women interested in partaking then Id have no problem.
Yes, if somebody wants to give away their kidney then I also have no problem with that. Its not a smart thing to do and I think it should be very difficult for them to find a doctor to perform such an unethical surgery on them, though.

And Id put more emphasis on strict laws surrounding the adoptions, making sure the are going to safe homes, rather than simply capping a number of children allowed on it.

Why is removing a kidney with consent unethical?

Baby Farms

Comments