Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

PressRun · 15-02-2017 09:45AM

Not totally surprised at Freeman choosing to leave. His work sounds busy and it would be hard to commit and put in the effort if there is no guarantee of a starting place.

yop · 15-02-2017 10:30AM

Shame to see Freezer leave, never utilized fully. I think that sub in 2013 ruined his confidence, seems to be very much a confidence player. Think he owes us nothing, stuck with it and between lack of opportunity and form just didn't seem to crack it.
Its a pity that the jobs aren't here to keep the lads. Then again that is the state of the region and its not just affecting Mayo players.

Can only wish him luck.

Gael85 · 15-02-2017 10:38AM

Is Freeman transferring to St Vincents?

Kalyke · 15-02-2017 10:39AM

yop wrote: »

Shame to see Freezer leave, never utilized fully. I think that sub in 2013 ruined his confidence, seems to be very much a confidence player. Think he owes us nothing, stuck with it and between lack of opportunity and form just didn't seem to crack it.
Its a pity that the jobs aren't here to keep the lads. Then again that is the state of the region and its not just affecting Mayo players.

Can only wish him luck.

Does he not work with Jame Horan in Ballina?

yop · 15-02-2017 12:02PM

Kalyke wrote: »

Does he not work with Jame Horan in Ballina?

Sorry I must have misread that his role was in Dublin.

seligehgit · 15-02-2017 12:24PM

Kalyke wrote: »

Does he not work with Jame Horan in Ballina?

The Mayo News article mentioned he was based in Dublin and some of his work was taking him abroad.

Totally agree with Yop,I think that mystifying substitution in the 2013 All Ireland final affected his confidence significantly,never recovered from same.Very talented player,very much a confidence player with a talent probably not fulfilled.

MayoAreMagic · 15-02-2017 03:43PM

seligehgit wrote: »

Totally agree with Yop,I think that mystifying substitution in the 2013 All Ireland final affected his confidence significantly,never recovered from same.Very talented player,very much a confidence player with a talent probably not fulfilled.

Hmmm... Player loses all faith in their ability forever-more after being subbed - Bit of a stretch in fairness.
Maybe he wasn't as good as people wanted him to be for that big 2013 moaning session about horan taking him off, and his subsequent performances and non-selection under several managers back this up...

I always get a kick out of these theories people come up with before they consider contemplating that they themselves might be the ones that were wrong!

Blackjack · 15-02-2017 03:45PM

yop wrote: »

Sorry I must have misread that his role was in Dublin.

He does work in Dublin, for Veolia I think. He's been training with Parnells for a while I believe, not sure if he has transferred club yet.

yop · 15-02-2017 04:05PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Hmmm... Player loses all faith in their ability forever-more after being subbed - Bit of a stretch in fairness.
Maybe he wasn't as good as people wanted him to be for that big 2013 moaning session about horan taking him off, and his subsequent performances and non-selection under several managers back this up...

I always get a kick out of these theories people come up with before they consider contemplating that they themselves might be the ones that were wrong!

The irony in that statement!

MayoAreMagic · 15-02-2017 04:19PM

yop wrote: »

The irony in that statement!

Far from it man. Im simply looking at the thing objectively - no manager went with him and he never really done well in the chances he did get. Trying to say that this is down to a reaction to being subbed in one game 4 years ago is nonsense as far as Im concerned. Can every guy who didn't make an impression claim that one? Where does that end? The reality is if a guy was that precious he wouldn't be in an inter county squad in the first place.

I don't want to be knocking him, but you have to be honest about it - what performances did he actually deliver? Some good free-taking against tyrone in 2013? A few decent flashes of play against cork? Fair play to him for that, but the cold hard fact is that isn't enough.

Man on Fire · 15-02-2017 04:24PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Far from it man. Im simply looking at the thing objectively - no manager went with him and he never really done well in the chances he did get. Trying to say that this is down to a reaction to being subbed in one game 4 years ago is nonsense as far as Im concerned. Can every guy who didn't make an impression claim that one? Where does that end? The reality is if a guy was that precious he wouldn't be in an inter county squad in the first place.

I don't want to be knocking him, but you have to be honest about it - what performances did he actually deliver? Some good free-taking against tyrone in 2013? A few decent flashes of play against cork? Fair play to him for that, but the cold hard fact is that isn't enough.

Fair point... a good player but not up to all ireland material in my eyes

yop · 15-02-2017 04:33PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Far from it man. Im simply looking at the thing objectively - no manager went with him and he never really done well in the chances he did get. Trying to say that this is down to a reaction to being subbed in one game 4 years ago is nonsense as far as Im concerned. Can every guy who didn't make an impression claim that one? Where does that end? The reality is if a guy was that precious he wouldn't be in an inter county squad in the first place.

I don't want to be knocking him, but you have to be honest about it - what performances did he actually deliver? Some good free-taking against tyrone in 2013? A few decent flashes of play against cork? Fair play to him for that, but the cold hard fact is that isn't enough.

I would have taken you seriously until you said the only game he delivered in was 2013!!!

This is a good article.
http://mayogaablog.com/?p=20202#comment-110314

RD10 · 15-02-2017 05:12PM

Thanks to alan for the effort and commitment he has put in with mayo down the years. it's still sad to see him go.
I'm sure it was a very difficult decision for him to make to step away after being involved with this mayo team for so long, and in an era for mayo where weve been so close to the holy grail. some of the best days for us supporters and im sure alan and the boys.
some people dont realise the huge commitment it takes to play for your county, especially in this day and age where its at such a professional level.
It feels as if he never got a proper run at it for whatever reasons their might have been. felt there was more in him, but he's right to put his career first and good luck to him.

MayoAreMagic · 15-02-2017 05:13PM

yop wrote: »

I would have taken you seriously until you said the only game he delivered in was 2013!!!

This is a good article.
http://mayogaablog.com/?p=20202#comment-110314

I read the article, but Im not seeing what you are referencing. Im talking about delivering good scoring and ball-winning performances when faced with top level opposition like any high level full forward is supposed to do, i.e. Kerry, Cork, Tyrone, Dublin, Donegal. Any of the forwards in our squad can deliver against the likes of Longford and Sligo so that doesn't prove he should be in the team. We both know that isn't what I am talking about. Would he have put on the performance Moran did down in Kerry? Therein lies your answer.

Im not wanting to be down on the guy, but Im not accepting this thing where we let sentiment re-write history either. And what was suggested regarding the substitution is definitely in that category. In any other walk of life, if a guy is subbed, and subsequently doesn't really make a mark for the next four years, we would turn around and say, actually that manager might have been right after all. Yet here, what occurs is an obscure tale about the guy losing confidence from that point and never regaining it for the rest of his playing time, is concocted. I actually think that is a little insulting to the guy.

boosabum · 15-02-2017 05:58PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Hmmm... Player loses all faith in their ability forever-more after being subbed - Bit of a stretch in fairness.
Maybe he wasn't as good as people wanted him to be for that big 2013 moaning session about horan taking him off, and his subsequent performances and non-selection under several managers back this up...

I always get a kick out of these theories people come up with before they consider contemplating that they themselves might be the ones that were wrong!

Unfortunately, i think part of the 2013 thinking or indeed planning is that he would have challenged Cluxton aggressively in the opening stages of the game in terms of contesting high balls and possible upset him in the manner by maybe being over eager and leaving a little bit on him. My own belief is that he got caught between two stools as the delivery into him was neither under the cross bar for him to make his challenges or lofted enough for him to get over above his man

seligehgit · 15-02-2017 06:16PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Hmmm... Player loses all faith in their ability forever-more after being subbed - Bit of a stretch in fairness.
Maybe he wasn't as good as people wanted him to be for that big 2013 moaning session about horan taking him off, and his subsequent performances and non-selection under several managers back this up...

I always get a kick out of these theories people come up with before they consider contemplating that they themselves might be the ones that were wrong!

Fair enough that was more than a grain of supposition in my contention that he'd never recovered his confidence post that substitution but he'd played very well that year most especially against Tyrone.I do not believe he ever played as well in the years after said substitution(my opinion).Alan Freeman in my opinion was playing very well on said day and I could'nt understand why he was substituted,pretty normal observation...no big conspiracy.I did not espouse any of the theories that were circulating at the time re the substitution?

I stand by my contention that he's very much a confidence player and did'nt possibly fulfill his potential.Having said that he most probably is'nt a good enough starting player if we're going to finally win an All Ireland.

yop · 15-02-2017 06:32PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

I read the article, but Im not seeing what you are referencing. Im talking about delivering good scoring and ball-winning performances when faced with top level opposition like any high level full forward is supposed to do, i.e. Kerry, Cork, Tyrone, Dublin, Donegal. Any of the forwards in our squad can deliver against the likes of Longford and Sligo so that doesn't prove he should be in the team. We both know that isn't what I am talking about. Would he have put on the performance Moran did down in Kerry? Therein lies your answer.

Im not wanting to be down on the guy, but Im not accepting this thing where we let sentiment re-write history either. And what was suggested regarding the substitution is definitely in that category. In any other walk of life, if a guy is subbed, and subsequently doesn't really make a mark for the next four years, we would turn around and say, actually that manager might have been right after all. Yet here, what occurs is an obscure tale about the guy losing confidence from that point and never regaining it for the rest of his playing time, is concocted. I actually think that is a little insulting to the guy.

Point on the sub, he had a super semi, was MOM, yet in the final it was strange, am sure it didn't help him. You will find many examples of players who lost confidence and didn't regain it or couldn't play under a manager. Its not a myth or an excuse. It happens.

Okay so he didn't score against the big teams...
In 2014 he was our top League scorer. He scored 4.22 from 5 games. Against Kerry in he scored 1.5. Against Derry he scored 2.6 in the first game and 6 points in the second. Derry lost the final that year.
He had already accumulated 1.1 from playing in 2 games in the FBD. He started 2 games in the Championship. Why this was I don’t have the knowledge. He came on as sub in 3 other games. He didn’t score in the starts. He did as sub in one.
In 2015 he started 3 games in the league. He scored 2 goals in all games started and subbed. In championship he didn’t start a game, came on in 3. Scored 2 points.
Last year he started 2 league games and scored 5 points. Championship he started 1 games, returned 1 goal. Sub in 2 and scored a point.

So aside from 2013, scored 2-23 and 2014 where he had his best. Across 2015 and 2016 he has seen 6 game starts and 5 sub games. Scoring 3.9.
For a lad who got little game time then he return to pitch time ratio is pretty high. Games build confidence, hard for the lad to have any with that sort of a return. I’d like to see the stats for AOS etc.

As I said, best of luck to him.

MayoAreMagic · 15-02-2017 06:41PM

seligehgit wrote: »

Fair enough that was more than a grain of supposition in my contention that he'd never recovered his confidence post that substitution but he'd played very well that year most especially against Tyrone.I do not believe he ever played as well in the years after said substitution(my opinion).Alan Freeman in my opinion was playing very well on said day and I could'nt understand why he was substituted,pretty normal observation...no big conspiracy.I did not espouse any of the theories that were circulating at the time re the substitution?

Here is what I would like to delve into for a second. First off, the idea that a guy loses confidence and then never plays to his real ability again, is fanciful in the extreme, and reads like a really bad excuse a poor club player who always sees himself as a victim would come up with - I hasten to add freeman himself has never been guilty of that, it is the fans who are pushing it.

Second, what did he do so well against tyrone? Kick frees in COC's absence? Score a penalty he wasn't involved in winning? So basically, a deadball kicker. Well fair play for that, but we have a better one of those. Did he actually do a whole lot from play in this game? I think we are guilty of seeing this performance through rose tinted glasses to some extent, because he got us out of a sticky spot to some degree. But it was place kicking that did it.

Thirdly, the Dublin game; what was he doing so well in this game? The one ball he won, his marker was out in front but misjudged the flight of the ball. So I don't agree that he was playing well, let alone very well. Truth be told he wasn't really in it either way and his manager was clearly unhappy with his movement, as could be heard from the sideline. But again, we have built up this rose-tinted idea of what happened where basically we would have won if he stayed on, simply because we want it to be true more than any real evidence.

What people never remember is Freeman played against Dublin the following spring in the league, and O'Carroll marked him out of it convincingly.

Now maybe it isn't the time to be making these points and I don't fault his effort at all, but we are guilty in mayo of not facing up to realities enough and making heroes out of guys who have done little, to our own detriment.

MayoAreMagic · 15-02-2017 06:55PM

yop wrote: »

Point on the sub, he had a super semi, was MOM, yet in the final it was strange, am sure it didn't help him. You will find many examples of players who lost confidence and didn't regain it or couldn't play under a manager. Its not a myth or an excuse. It happens.

How much of the motm was down to his place-kicking though? Again fair play to him on that, but we have a better place kicker.
As for players losing confidence under a manager, fair enough. He had 3 managers though and 4 year. In fact looking back, horan seemed to be the guy who gave him the most games...

As for the scoring stats, again, discount the frees. We have guys saying Doherty should be dropped when he has rattled off big scores in the league too - and from play. You cant have it every way.

Re. AOS, Im no blind supporter of him either. Id consider dropping him actually. We are very predictable with him, he hasn't developed his own game in a long time and the officiating of the game is moving away from very big players as they are fouled freely, without punishment and cant track their men.

yop · 15-02-2017 07:14PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

How much of the motm was down to his place-kicking though? Again fair play to him on that, but we have a better place kicker.
As for players losing confidence under a manager, fair enough. He had 3 managers though and 4 year. In fact looking back, horan seemed to be the guy who gave him the most games...

As for the scoring stats, again, discount the frees. We have guys saying Doherty should be dropped when he has rattled off big scores in the league too - and from play. You cant have it every way.

Re. AOS, Im no blind supporter of him either. Id consider dropping him actually. We are very predictable with him, he hasn't developed his own game in a long time and the officiating of the game is moving away from very big players as they are fouled freely, without punishment and cant track their men.

Yip Horan played him most. He got little to nothing in the last 2 years.

Scoring, he produced against the big teams, when he actually played.
Free, he came in under 50% on the frees. COC was the main free taker. McLoughs the other.
Freeman outscored Doherty on a scores to games ratio.

So you can have it every way you want really. He has produced against the big teams, his scoring to games ratio is as high as any forward we have or had on the panel in the last 5 years, he probably is a confidence player as are most forwards.

MayoAreMagic · 15-02-2017 07:35PM

yop wrote: »

Yip Horan played him most. He got little to nothing in the last 2 years.

Scoring, he produced against the big teams, when he actually played.
Free, he came in under 50% on the frees. COC was the main free taker. McLoughs the other.
Freeman outscored Doherty on a scores to games ratio.

So you can have it every way you want really. He has produced against the big teams, his scoring to games ratio is as high as any forward we have or had on the panel in the last 5 years, he probably is a confidence player as are most forwards.

So you are trying to argue that he didnt score many frees? There are plenty of games where oconnor wasnt playing, you know that as well as i do. Plenty came from dead balls. But you fail to see the bigger picture - you are arguing on the back of his league performances; because you cant argue on his championship performances. So to claim he done it against the top sides is just nonsense.

Re doherty, the guy is a half forward workhorse. Freeman is a ff and free taker... If you are making that comparison i have lost interest in the discussion, because you are just trying to win a debate rather than talk honestly on the topic

homewardbound11 · 15-02-2017 09:32PM

Sad to see him go. We haven't too many 6 foot full forward line players capable of winning their own ball and scoring goals . A loss in my eyes to the county . Hope he reconsiders .

yop · 15-02-2017 10:17PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

So you are trying to argue that he didnt score many frees? There are plenty of games where oconnor wasnt playing, you know that as well as i do. Plenty came from dead balls. But you fail to see the bigger picture - you are arguing on the back of his league performances; because you cant argue on his championship performances. So to claim he done it against the top sides is just nonsense.

Re doherty, the guy is a half forward workhorse. Freeman is a ff and free taker... If you are making that comparison i have lost interest in the discussion, because you are just trying to win a debate rather than talk honestly on the topic

Listen, you dissed him as a forward, you dissed him not performing against the big teams, you dissed him as a player only scoring from frees, you dissed him on confidence. You then claim that the league is lesser than the championship. Read the stats, I've provided you the facts, big or small picture.

You've lost interest as your view is invalid, pointless, factless and as you normally do on the GAA forum you just want to get into an argument.

Any, I lost interest long ago, just wanted to show you up for the drivel you were pedaling.
And I am sure we will hear man barstooler pipe the same toilet talk.

MayoAreMagic · 15-02-2017 11:27PM

yop wrote: »

Listen, you dissed him as a forward, you dissed him not performing against the big teams, you dissed him as a player only scoring from frees, you dissed him on confidence. You then claim that the league is lesser than the championship. Read the stats, I've provided you the facts, big or small picture.

You've lost interest as your view is invalid, pointless, factless and as you normally do on the GAA forum you just want to get into an argument.

Any, I lost interest long ago, just wanted to show you up for the drivel you were pedaling.
And I am sure we will hear man barstooler pipe the same toilet talk.

Sorry but im not 'dissing' the guy at all. I fully respect that he gave his all for his county. Im just pointing out that in the cold light of day, he probably came up short - no shame in that. But just because someone gives their 100%, doesnt mean you cant critique the guys performance. That is nonsense.

Id also point out that Im not the guy painting him as some mental pushover who couldnt manage to get over the fact that he was subbed in one game for the rest of his sporting career. And then a nice 'fair play' to him for scoring for us in the league, because the league is all important all of a sudden. Do you not see how patronising that is?

Audioslaven · 16-02-2017 10:14PM

You just have to admire Keegan and for everything he does on the pitch. I hope Westport do the business and he gets the medal he truly deserves along with the young bucks in the team. I am sure alot of the guys look up to him big time with his attitude and drive.
What a season for him if they win on Sunday and maybe he could do it again on another sunday in september. He comes across as a run of the mill guy in interview as well.

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=266387

mayo.mick · 16-02-2017 11:01PM

https://twitter.com/officialgaa/status/832344693505679361

km79 · 16-02-2017 11:03PM

CHC 16.02.17: Tom Parsons (Mayo) Charge Proven - contributing to a melee. One match suspension imposed. Full statement to follow.

So just to be clear
ONE PLAYER has been charged for contributing to a MELEE

What an absolute joke of an organization
He needs to get the number for D Connollys solicitor

martyos121 · 16-02-2017 11:08PM

It's grand, only the first appeal. These things usually take two or three. :rolleyes:

seligehgit · 18-02-2017 08:07AM

Mayo can expect a major boost in March with the return of the O Shea brothers,Seamus and Aidan,while Ger Cafferkey is likely to be making his first appearance since an injury kept him out for all of last year's championship.

Mayo manager Stephen Rochford has confirmed to The Connaught Telegraph today that all three are back in training and he expects them to be available in March as Mayo's National League programme gets down to the serious end of things with games against Dublin on March 4,Cavan on March 19,Tyrone on March 26 and their last game against Donegal on April 2.

The win over Kerry has boosted Mayo's league hopes but their first half performance,especially in defence,left a lot to be desired,with David Clarke coming to the rescue on more than one occasion.

The return of Cafferkey,who was unable to play any part in Mayo's championship last year due to a hamstring injury,is a huge boost as Mayo seek to sort out their defensive problems ahead of their clash with Roscommon at MacHale Park on Saturday night,February 25.

Aidan O Shea has not played any football since picking up an ankle injury while training with Sligo basketball team EJs,who qualifed for the National Intermediate Cup final where O Shea watched from the wings,while Seamus O Shea is also back from injury and in full training.

Rochford has already let a number of players go from his panel and more are to be released in the coming weeks as he gets down to selecting his final panel ahead of the championship with a few tough calls to make in respect a number of players very much on the periphery of making the final squad.

Alan Freeman has left the panel,the manager citing the work commitments by the Aghamore man which has curtailed him from giving the commitment necessary for 2017.

rocketfingers · 18-02-2017 09:33PM

Alan Freeman has left the panel,the manager citing the work commitments by the Aghamore man which has curtailed him from giving the commitment necessary for 2017.
Does anyone believe that statement?

Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

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