Posting a phone outside Ireland (with battery!)

cormie · 10-02-2017 08:47AM #1

Folks, I want to return a phone in a small package 17x10x8cm weighing less than 500g to an eBay seller in the USA. For a package this size, anpost will charge €11.05 tracked, but because the phone has a battery, they won't ship it ;( I tried a few parcel broker sites and the cheapest was TNT at €33 odd, but looking at the T+C, I don't think they will ship anything with a battery either ;(

It was shipped to me on the sellers FedEx account and I tried to see if I could get the same rate as they have on their account to ship it back by phoning FedEx, but they can't share the sellers rates for privacy reasons and wanted to charge me €86 to send it!

Has anyone got any recommendations on how to ship a phone and get a tracking number and not have any complications with the fact there's a battery in the phone?

Any suggestions would be great!

drunkmonkey · 10-02-2017 08:52AM

There's a ban on lithium batteries. You could say nothing and take your chances but it's a risk.
Not sure what else you can do, I've had to stop doing business with a company over it.

cormie · 10-02-2017 10:15AM

Is the ban on the Irish side? I've never had any trouble getting stuff shipped TO Ireland, only ever had trouble shipping from Ireland

Surely there's some company out there who can ship a phone that anpost would charge €11.05 for, for about €40

fdevine · 10-02-2017 11:54AM

cormie wrote: »

Is the ban on the Irish side? I've never had any trouble getting stuff shipped TO Ireland, only ever had trouble shipping from Ireland

Surely there's some company out there who can ship a phone that anpost would charge €11.05 for, for about €40

It's a worldwide ban. I had a parcel returned to Mailbox.de because of the battery.

UPS would carry it German post wouldn't so had to pay through the nose.

http://www.dhl.ie/en/express/shipping/shipping_advice/lithium_batteries.html

cormie · 10-02-2017 01:22PM

So new rules came in starting from 1 January 2017 too? How do businesses dealing with mobile phones get around it?

So any suggestions where to try to get it shipped? I only have today to decide as I need to supply trakcing info for the paypal dispute by tomorrow or the dispute will be cancelled and I don't want the seller try pull a fast one, but don't want to spend €80 on shipping a half kilo either!

drunkmonkey · 10-02-2017 01:38PM

I use UPS in Europe, but no US supplier will send over lithium batteries now.

cormie · 10-02-2017 02:42PM

So it may be impossible now to buy a phone from the US? Do FedEx not do it?

drunkmonkey · 10-02-2017 03:14PM

Yea pretty much, I can't think of any reason a European would want an American phone anyway.

corks finest · 11-02-2017 12:29AM

Got a price of e45 to UK,local post wouldn't take it,I parcelled it up and wrote child's toy on label e6/7,

cormie · 11-02-2017 11:58AM

So I rang one of the courier/parcel broker sites and the guy on the phone said it's fine to send phones, you just need to contact them and they'll send you a battery warning label, I think one like this:

Then you just print it and stick it on the package too.

He said it would be approx €30 to send with FedEx and I said I don't remember seeing FedEx on their website and he said it was called World Express on the site as they want to call themselves something different when offering a cheaper service, but it's still FedEx!

By the way, if anyone knows, in the ordering process, I first put in a value of €300 as I was thinking there'd be less chance of it being robbed as I wasn't insuring it, then on another page, it seemed like it was asking me to reconfirm the value so I decided to change it to €450 just incase there was problems with customs etc. After I put the order through, I got the airway bills, which have the value at €300, and then the commercial invoice looks like there's two phones in the pack, one with a €300 value and the other with a €450 value.

Can I edit these invoices to reflect that there's only 1 phone and the value is €450 myself and then print them off, or would this info be in their system and I'd need to change it with FedEx/Broker before printing and finishing packaging? Neither are open until Monday morning and I have the package scheduled for pickup from 10:00 on Monday so I still have time, would just prefer to sort it now.

flexcon · 11-02-2017 12:05PM

cormie wrote: »

So new rules came in starting from 1 January 2017 too? How do businesses dealing with mobile phones get around it?

So any suggestions where to try to get it shipped? I only have today to decide as I need to supply trakcing info for the paypal dispute by tomorrow or the dispute will be cancelled and I don't want the seller try pull a fast one, but don't want to spend €80 on shipping a half kilo either!

cormie wrote: »

So I rang one of the courier/parcel broker sites and the guy on the phone said it's fine to send phones, you just need to contact them and they'll send you a battery warning label, I think one like this:

Then you just print it and stick it on the package too.

He said it would be approx €30 to send with FedEx and I said I don't remember seeing FedEx on their website and he said it was called World Express on the site as they want to call themselves something different when offering a cheaper service, but it's still FedEx!

By the way, if anyone knows, in the ordering process, I first put in a value of €300 as I was thinking there'd be less chance of it being robbed as I wasn't insuring it, then on another page, it seemed like it was asking me to reconfirm the value so I decided to change it to €450 just incase there was problems with customs etc. After I put the order through, I got the airway bills, which have the value at €300, and then the commercial invoice looks like there's two phones in the pack, one with a €300 value and the other with a €450 value.

Can I edit these invoices to reflect that there's only 1 phone and the value is €450 myself and then print them off, or would this info be in their system and I'd need to change it with FedEx/Broker before printing and finishing packaging? Neither are open until Monday morning and I have the package scheduled for pickup from 10:00 on Monday so I still have time, would just prefer to sort it now.

Interesting that sent that out. That appears on standalone batteries being sent from companies.

I have a great deal of knowledge around this area, to sum up:

You cannot send a device with a standalone battery as a private seller on a plane. Dead end.
You can send a stand a lone battery as an organization where by the battery is sealed to certain standards and does not pose a risk in flight. So your amazon batteries etc will arrive to you in Ireland as normal. You cannot send those batteries back, as you are a private consumer of the service - not a company. So the battery may have come unstable.

interestingly, you can go onto say, Apple.com and order a standalone battery from the website, wait for it to arrive, and then request a return for refund. They will tell you, you cannot return this to us, please DON'T return this, and a refund will be issued instead.

end result you have a brand new battery and a full refund following. ( I don't condone this but simply giving an example of this )

cormie · 11-02-2017 12:11PM

Thanks for the info, first you say a device with a standalone battery, but then you refer to just stand alone batteries, when you say you cannot send a device with a stand alone battery, do you mean any electronic device with a battery inside it? Or just the battery on it's own?

How are consumers meant to return phones for repair etc in this case, or is it just that they are not able to return batteries themselves, but if they are contained in the device, they are ok to send?

Damien360 · 11-02-2017 12:13PM

cormie wrote: »

Is the ban on the Irish side? I've never had any trouble getting stuff shipped TO Ireland, only ever had trouble shipping from Ireland

Surely there's some company out there who can ship a phone that anpost would charge €11.05 for, for about €40

Not long before they start restricting the batteries that passengers carry and not just cargo

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ash/ash_programs/hazmat/aircarrier_info/media/battery_incident_chart.pdf

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UPS_Airlines_Flight_6[url][/url]

flexcon · 11-02-2017 12:13PM

cormie wrote: »

Thanks for the info, first you say a device with a standalone battery, but then you refer to just stand alone batteries, when you say you cannot send a device with a stand alone battery, do you mean any electronic device with a battery inside it? Or just the battery on it's own?

How are consumers meant to return phones for repair etc in this case, or is it just that they are not able to return batteries themselves, but if they are contained in the device, they are ok to send?

any standalone battery. A phone, or a device with a built in battery is fine, although some carriers refuse to based on their own policy. This isn't a regulation though, that only applies to standalone batteries. So you could return your brand new iPhone to Apple to the UK for repair just fine. But you cannot return your brand new mophie juice pack to Apple as this is a standalone battery.

cormie · 11-02-2017 12:22PM

Ok, that's good to know, the saga of the phone I'm returning has been going on for almost 2 months. It's a Samsung Galaxy S7 Active, exclusive to AT&T in the US and I got it from an eBay seller. I've a big thread on another site going into all the detail, but I was just glad to finally get a resolution and be able to return it so to then run into problems with shipping it too, it's just been a nightmare

rom · 13-02-2017 12:01AM

Rant below

https://business.help.royalmail.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/867/~/prohibited-goods---uk

Lithium ion/polymer/metal/alloy batteries are allowed when sent with or contained in/connected to an electronic device, but are subject to packaging, volume and quantity restrictions.

Basically its stupid An Post reading the actual rules and they go as sure thats too much to read. Lets just say no batteries. Read the rules http://www.royalmail.com/business/sites/default/files/IATA-Lithium-Battery-Guidance.pdf, comply with them, and lie to An Post that you are sending computer parts without a battery. If they lie to us that we can't send batteries then why can't we lie to them. tbh this is what I did when I needed to ship my Garmin watch back to the UK. Firstly they said they can't ship batteries in items (which is a lie) and then they told me they can't ship jeweler either because it could get stolen. Your one was quite happy to tell me this and go back to her gossip with colleague about Mary down the road. Just package it correctly as per the guidelines that an post can bother to read or implement.

flexcon · 13-02-2017 11:09AM

rom wrote: »

Rant below

https://business.help.royalmail.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/867/~/prohibited-goods---uk

Lithium ion/polymer/metal/alloy batteries are allowed when sent with or contained in/connected to an electronic device, but are subject to packaging, volume and quantity restrictions.

Basically its stupid An Post reading the actual rules and they go as sure thats too much to read. Lets just say no batteries. Read the rules http://www.royalmail.com/business/sites/default/files/IATA-Lithium-Battery-Guidance.pdf, comply with them, and lie to An Post that you are sending computer parts without a battery. If they lie to us that we can't send batteries then why can't we lie to them. tbh this is what I did when I needed to ship my Garmin watch back to the UK. Firstly they said they can't ship batteries in items (which is a lie) and then they told me they can't ship jeweler either because it could get stolen. Your one was quite happy to tell me this and go back to her gossip with colleague about Mary down the road. Just package it correctly as per the guidelines that an post can bother to read or implement.

I'd be sending this is An post corporate not giving out about Siobhan talking to Mary.

I see the point, but having been in a customer service facing role before, the local offices are only in fact doing what their boss wants them to do. Be interesting to see what they say back to your email.

rom · 14-02-2017 12:48AM

flexcon wrote: »

I'd be sending this is An post corporate not giving out about Siobhan talking to Mary.

I see the point, but having been in a customer service facing role before, the local offices are only in fact doing what their boss wants them to do. Be interesting to see what they say back to your email.

I did and this is what I got back

thanks for getting in touch. The following is a link to the rules when sending items through An Post http://www.anpost.ie/.../ChristmasCh.../Prohibited+Items.htm Batteries are prohibited from International mail and they are not allowed be sent through us. If they are posted they will be stopped by the aviation Authority of Ireland.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

flexcon · 14-02-2017 10:25AM

rom wrote: »

I did and this is what I got back

thanks for getting in touch. The following is a link to the rules when sending items through An Post http://www.anpost.ie/.../ChristmasCh.../Prohibited+Items.htm Batteries are prohibited from International mail and they are not allowed be sent through us. If they are posted they will be stopped by the aviation Authority of Ireland.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I have a contact within this position in An Post and she said the same thing. She did mention that even if they are interpreting the rules wrong, who you would go to is unknown as this is a decision that is made almost at board level.

P.S - wrap it up nicely and say nothing. Batteries are still being sent, it's more of a "don't declare it accurately" situation. Although, I wouldn't be doing that for just batteries, as that is a worldwide block.

cormie · 14-02-2017 02:09PM

This is from a conversation over Facebook with a customer service rep of one of the parcel broker sites:

ME:
what if I say it's a picture frame?

REP:
You would be legally obliged to accurately declare the item's contents and value when the parcel; US customs could destroy the item and even blacklist you from ever sending there again if you knowingly provide incorrect information regarding the item you're sending, especially if this is to get round a prohibited items list.

ME
Haha, I was only joking, but interesting to hear that all the same 🙂

fdevine · 14-02-2017 04:49PM

rom wrote: »

Rant below

https://business.help.royalmail.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/867/~/prohibited-goods---uk

Lithium ion/polymer/metal/alloy batteries are allowed when sent with or contained in/connected to an electronic device, but are subject to packaging, volume and quantity restrictions.

Basically its stupid An Post reading the actual rules and they go as sure thats too much to read. Lets just say no batteries. Read the rules http://www.royalmail.com/business/sites/default/files/IATA-Lithium-Battery-Guidance.pdf, comply with them, and lie to An Post that you are sending computer parts without a battery. If they lie to us that we can't send batteries then why can't we lie to them. tbh this is what I did when I needed to ship my Garmin watch back to the UK. Firstly they said they can't ship batteries in items (which is a lie) and then they told me they can't ship jeweler either because it could get stolen. Your one was quite happy to tell me this and go back to her gossip with colleague about Mary down the road. Just package it correctly as per the guidelines that an post can bother to read or implement.

It's not just AnPost in fairness. I had the same problem with DeutschePost. Refused to carry an item containing a battery even though the regulations clearly allowed it

rom · 14-02-2017 10:42PM

So was on to An post today about this.

Hello An Post, Why have you not implemented rules in respect to posting batteries correctly as per IATA rather than just telling customers that they can't post batteries which is not true. Here are the rules http://www.royalmail.com/…/IATA-Lithium-Battery-Guidance.pdf . Please implement them or customers are simply going to tell you the item does not contain a battery when it does which is not good.

Hi rom, thanks for getting in touch. The following is a link to the rules when sending items through An Post http://www.anpost.ie/.../ChristmasCh.../Prohibited+Items.htm Batteries are prohibited from International mail and they are not allowed be sent through us. If they are posted they will be stopped by the aviation Authority of Ireland.

--
Actually this is incorrect as other carrier in Ireland will take them when packaged correctly. The link I provided is the international rules. An Post have not implemented them correctly. You didn't read my link.

---
Hi rom, thanks for following up with us. We are fully aware that courier services operating may take batteries but we do not, these are a prohibited items through An Post as set out by the Irish Aviation Authority. We hope this information helps.

--
https://www.iaa.ie/docs/default-source/misc/eb016e-lithium-batteries.pdf?sfvrsn=0 (Irish Aviation Authority) website

Pg 1. Section 3

"The prohibition applies to lithium batteries packed on their own and not to lithium batteries packed with or contained in equipment."

Most other carriers are more expensive and this is very annoying that. This is very annoying. I would appreciate a comment on this as Royal Mail allow such as outlined here:

http://www.royalmail.com/business/sites/default/files/IATA-Lithium-Battery-Guidance.pdf

Now I am aware from an admin perspective it easier to say no batteries but with the amount of consumer electronics bought from overseas into Ireland this really causes a lot of pain for many people. I have been hit with it a few times already.

---

A nation holds its breath

rom · 14-02-2017 10:45PM

rom wrote: »

So was on to An post today about this.

Hello An Post, Why have you not implemented rules in respect to posting batteries correctly as per IATA rather than just telling customers that they can't post batteries which is not true. Here are the rules http://www.royalmail.com/…/IATA-Lithium-Battery-Guidance.pdf . Please implement them or customers are simply going to tell you the item does not contain a battery when it does which is not good.

Hi rom, thanks for getting in touch. The following is a link to the rules when sending items through An Post http://www.anpost.ie/.../ChristmasCh.../Prohibited+Items.htm Batteries are prohibited from International mail and they are not allowed be sent through us. If they are posted they will be stopped by the aviation Authority of Ireland.

--
Actually this is incorrect as other carrier in Ireland will take them when packaged correctly. The link I provided is the international rules. An Post have not implemented them correctly. You didn't read my link.

---
Hi rom, thanks for following up with us. We are fully aware that courier services operating may take batteries but we do not, these are a prohibited items through An Post as set out by the Irish Aviation Authority. We hope this information helps.

--
https://www.iaa.ie/docs/default-source/misc/eb016e-lithium-batteries.pdf?sfvrsn=0 (Irish Aviation Authority) website

Pg 1. Section 3

"The prohibition applies to lithium batteries packed on their own and not to lithium batteries packed with or contained in equipment."

Most other carriers are more expensive and this is very annoying that. This is very annoying. I would appreciate a comment on this as Royal Mail allow such as outlined here:

http://www.royalmail.com/business/sites/default/files/IATA-Lithium-Battery-Guidance.pdf

Now I am aware from an admin perspective it easier to say no batteries but with the amount of consumer electronics bought from overseas into Ireland this really causes a lot of pain for many people. I have been hit with it a few times already.

---

A nation holds its breath

Was talking to a guy who ships a lot of laptops around for IT in work and they are told to remove the battery and ship it with the laptop. tbh that makes perfect sense.

FMG · 24-02-2017 09:13PM

I had this with my local Post Office, no way would they carry a phone I was returning. Lucky for me the purchase was ' Fulfilled by Amazon ' and they arranged DHL to collect and lodged the fee into my account. €42 :eek:.

Posting a phone outside Ireland (with battery!)

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