Child refugees -majority to be males aged 17???

Timberrrrrrrr · 28-01-2017 03:35PM

Widdershins wrote: »

Accusing people of being indifferent to a tragic situation you described graphically and I won't repeat.In other words, implying ''some posters'' are some kind of heartless, sociopathic monsters.

For clarity, I didn't report your post.

Read the posts and this is exactly how some posters come across though, Report away if my opinion upsets you i just tell it how i see it.

Mary63 wrote: »

I think those adults should be charged with reckless endangerment of their children's lives(after they land and before they are deported).

The child who died and whose picture led to Angela Merkels decision to open the doors and our Navys decision to find something to do with their Boat(toy) had reached a safe country.His father decided this country wasn't good enough so he put his family into that boat.That childs death isn't on my conscience, it was down to the adult who put him on the boat

I rest my case.

Widdershins · 28-01-2017 03:42PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Read the posts and this is exactly how some posters come across though, Report away if my opinion upsets you i just tell it how i see it.

I rest my case.

His death shouldn't be on her conscience. Why would anyone want it to be. It was the boy's father who risked his life, not to get away from a war but apparently for other reasons there's no need to go into. Saying ''it's not on my conscience'' is a bit like saying ''it wasn't my fault''. I don't read that to mean ''I don't care in the slightest''.

Anyway, I thought opinions were frowned on on the thread.

It's a funny coincidence that your comment is almost identical to the one Bubblypop directly aimed at me yesterday.

You're entitled to say what you want though and as you didn't target me I'm going to 'butt out' now.

Mary63 · 28-01-2017 03:44PM

Thats a much better option widdershins and quite clearly our Navy have nothing better to be doing if they are hanging around some coastline looking to pick up immigrants so they might as well help out Italy and Greece by dropping these economic migrants back to where they have come from.

These will save Irish taxpayers enormous sums of money as I don't blame the Italians if they make sure we take more than our fair share of these people.The Italians and the Greeks must be raging with our Navy bringing these unwanted passengers ashore for these two countries to look after.

We have nothing to offer these people, there are no jobs for skilled/unskilled migrants from North Africa, we have enough young people from the EU looking for jobs, the unemployment rate in Spain is quite high and I would rather see young Spaniards come here for work than masses of North African males.They should stay in their own countries and do something to build up their own economies.

28-01-2017 03:51PM

Mary63 wrote: »

, the unemployment rate in Spain is quite high and I would rather see young Spaniards come here for work than masses of North African males.

Why? Why do you prefer Spanish people to north African people?

alastair · 28-01-2017 03:57PM

Mary63 wrote: »

They arrive in the EU then and are given cash.They take pictures of themselves with this cash and next thing you have two thousand more heading off to find a boat to jump on too.

This would be the €2.50 a day spending money they get in Italy? Flashing that sort of cash is unlikely to provoke anything except ridicule.

28-01-2017 03:58PM

b_mac2 wrote: »

Of course you would pick this point out so you can pluck at the heart strings, basic liberal default settings really, when you and a lot pf other posters can't answer the tough questions which need to be addressed.

I would appreciate a straight answer on this though-
How many people from Africa and the ME do you think Europe should take in each year? Or would you just like to see an uncapped number flow here?

Honest question here, i'm not making any stupid digs. I know ye do mean well.

I don't know what you mean by basic liberal default settings. I'm just a normal person who's says things as I see them.
Honestly, when it comes to numbers I have no idea. I would listen to experts on related topics, economy, workforce, immigration etc.
I'm not suggestion a free for all, but obviously a certain amount of visas each year for workers.
Refugees have special status & to be fair, I don't believe that people should be left to drown in the med.
The problems of people coning into Ireland specifically to access the social welfare system, is a problem. However, it's a problem that governments and society have created over the last 30yrs or so. The welfaresystem needs an overhaul, in totality, including for Irish people.
If it wasn't so attractive to everyone, people wouldn't choose it as a lifestyle.

alastair · 28-01-2017 03:58PM

bubblypop wrote: »

Why? Why do you prefer Spanish people to north African people?

They're probably less 'rapey', don't you know?

Widdershins · 28-01-2017 04:25PM

Mary63 wrote: »

Thats a much better option widdershins..

It might be! Maybe if the focus was on helping in some other way so they could somehow go back to more stable countries, and in the meantime, a safe area away from the fighting and rebels, where they could be visited by aid workers and assessed for asylum there rather than after crossing to Germany/the Uk?

Mr.Micro · 28-01-2017 04:48PM

Mary63 wrote: »

Thats a much better option widdershins and quite clearly our Navy have nothing better to be doing if they are hanging around some coastline looking to pick up immigrants so they might as well help out Italy and Greece by dropping these economic migrants back to where they have come from.

These will save Irish taxpayers enormous sums of money as I don't blame the Italians if they make sure we take more than our fair share of these people.The Italians and the Greeks must be raging with our Navy bringing these unwanted passengers ashore for these two countries to look after.

We have nothing to offer these people, there are no jobs for skilled/unskilled migrants from North Africa, we have enough young people from the EU looking for jobs, the unemployment rate in Spain is quite high and I would rather see young Spaniards come here for work than masses of North African males.They should stay in their own countries and do something to build up their own economies.

Mary, I would love to know what your solution to the problem is? Ignore it and hope it goes away, like the stray cat that arrived at my house 2 weeks ago and will not leave. You seem to have thing about men or just certain ethnic males?

recedite · 28-01-2017 06:14PM

Brian? wrote: »

No one wants unlimited numbers. That's a straw man you've built to burn.
If we pull the Navy out more people will die than if we leave them there. Do you disagree?

Question 1. What attracts people (mostly 17-30 year old males) from all over sub-saharan Africa to Libya, a country which in large parts is still in an ongoing state of chaos and civil war?
Answer 1 the availability of ships from the EU, including naval vessels and those operated by various NGOs, waiting 12 miles off the Libyan coastline (in international waters) to pick them up, provide free food, clothing and legal/illegal entry into the EU.

Question 2. What would happen if those ships stopped doing what they are doing?
Answer 2 A much smaller number would travel, and it would be far more difficult and expensive for them. They would have to pay people traffickers to take them the full distance across the Med. The traffickers would have to use bigger boats and also pilot those boats, adding to the ticket cost of the trip. Less people making the trip = less people drowning.

alastair · 28-01-2017 06:41PM

recedite wrote: »

Question 1. What attracts people (mostly 17-30 year old males) from all over sub-saharan Africa to Libya, a country which in large parts is still in an ongoing state of chaos and civil war?

That state of chaos allows an uncontrolled people smuggling operation to thrive. That's the reason they go there, and have done so since the state fell into chaos (long before any EU naval monitoring). The Spanish navy also bring rescued migrants to Spain, but there's a much smaller number attempting the crossing from Morocco, as there's greater policing of smuggling there.

recedite wrote: »

Question 2. What would happen if those ships stopped doing what they are doing?

We already know that. Drowning deaths have increased since the ending of the scaling back from the more comprehensive Mare Nostrum naval programme. Removing operation Triton would just exasperate an already terrible situation.

Mr.Micro · 28-01-2017 06:47PM

recedite wrote: »

Question 1. What attracts people (mostly 17-30 year old males) from all over sub-saharan Africa to Libya, a country which in large parts is still in an ongoing state of chaos and civil war?
Answer 1 the availability of ships from the EU, including naval vessels and those operated by various NGOs, waiting 12 miles off the Libyan coastline (in international waters) to pick them up, provide free food, clothing and legal/illegal entry into the EU.

Question 2. What would happen if those ships stopped doing what they are doing?
Answer 2 A much smaller number would travel, and it would be far more difficult and expensive for them. They would have to pay people traffickers to take them the full distance across the Med. The traffickers would have to use bigger boats and also pilot those boats, adding to the ticket cost of the trip. Less people making the trip = less people drowning.

Question 1. Answer. Looking for a better life, nothing else.

Question 2. Answer. Less navy boats Would lead to more drownings and death. I very much doubt it would have any effect on the numbers crossing.

recedite · 28-01-2017 06:49PM

alastair wrote: »

Drowning deaths have increased since the ending of the scaling back from the more comprehensive Mare Nostrum naval programme. Removing operation Triton would just exasperate an already terrible situation.

Where are your figures coming from? The number of tragedies within the 12 mile limit of EU countries has dropped alright. Not so many bodies washed up on Spanish beaches now. Thats because the migrats are being picked up on the North African side of the Med.

But what about all those drowning off Libya and Tunisia? And all those dying in the Sahara desert before they even see the ocean?

recedite · 28-01-2017 07:00PM

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Less navy boats Would lead to more drownings and death. I very much doubt it would have any effect on the numbers crossing.

Well, I very much disagree.

Would be interesting to try an experiment though. Ask President Trump to moor a couple of aircraft carriers 12 miles of the West African coast. Anyone getting to this US Navy flotilla via a rubber dinghy will be given free passage to the USA. No vetting and no questions asked. On arrival in the USA, one question is asked; "were you a victim of a war or some kind of political or religious discrimination?" When the answer is "yes" a green card is issued.

If nobody shows up in Libya following this better offer off the West African coast, we'll know the ships do have an effect.

Mary63 · 28-01-2017 07:40PM

Im booking a flight now to the West African Coast.I will climb into a rubber dinghy if it just means getting my feet wet and then someone will pick me up and bring me to San Diego.Im suffering religious discrimination because Im Catholic and I can't get a protestant grant to send my children to private school.I need counselling because of this so as soon as I land In San Diego I want a therapist.

MR. Micro, fill a plastic bottle with water and squeeze lemon juice into it, wait till the scraggy cat gets close and then fire the lemony water into its face, it won't come back.God, have you no initiative.

I have nothing against men but I wouldn't call hordes of North Africans raping in Cologne men, if what is on the Irish Navy ship is these type of people then I would leave them in the water.That is my solution, what has the EU got to do with these people,the United States and Australia which are vast countries with plenty of room are refusing to take them in so why should Ireland which is a tiny Island take them.We have people on housing lists for ten years and no one has bought houses anywhere for them to live in.There are Syrians landing in Ballaghadereen and walking into turnkey houses that locals need, how long do they live in these houses for, will they vacate them as soon as they find work.They haven't paid a single cent in taxes and we have elderly parents living with adult disabled children and they can't even get respite care.We have children with disabilities and there are no resources or so we are being constantly told to help them, one child went to the media about his wheelchair, it was too small and he couldnt get one to fit. Some one else was on Generation FXD and he while working was on wages so low he couldn't buy an inhaler for his child.If I was a parent in this situation the thought of Zappone spending fifty million and counting on unknowns from Calais would make me blind with rage.

While on the subject of men, how come women can comment on Donald Trumps weight, his hair, his liking for spray tan, his marriage, his children and no one objects.If a man was to comment on Theresa Mays hair or her figure or her marriage the feminists would implode.

Timberrrrrrrr · 28-01-2017 07:43PM

Mary63 wrote: »

Im booking a flight now to the West African Coast.I will climb into a rubber dinghy if it just means getting my feet wet and then someone will pick me up and bring me to San Diego.Im suffering religious discrimination because Im Catholic and I can't get a protestant grant to send my children to private school.I need counselling because of this so as soon as I land In San Diego I want a therapist.

MR. Micro, fill a plastic bottle with water and squeeze lemon juice into it, wait till the scraggy cat gets close and then fire the lemony water into its face, it won't come back.God, have you no initiative.

I have nothing against men but I wouldn't call hordes of North Africans raping in Cologne men, if what is on the Irish Navy ship is these type of people then I would leave them in the water.That is my solution, what has the EU got to do with these people,the United States and Australia which are vast countries with plenty of room are refusing to take them in so why should Ireland which is a tiny Island take them.We have people on housing lists for ten years and no one has bought houses anywhere for them to live in.There are Syrians landing in Ballaghadereen and walking into turnkey houses that locals need, how long do they live in these houses for, will they vacate them as soon as they find work.They haven't paid a single cent in taxes and we have elderly parents living with adult disabled children and they can't even get respite care.We have children with disabilities and there are no resources or so we are being constantly told to help them, one child went to the media about his wheelchair, it was too small and he couldnt get one to fit. Some one else was on Generation FXD and he while working was on wages so low he couldn't buy an inhaler for his child.If I was a parent in this situation the thought of Zappone spending fifty million and counting on unknowns from Calais would make me blind with rage.

While on the subject of men, how come women can comment on Donald Trumps weight, his hair, his liking for spray tan, his marriage, his children and no one objects.If a man was to comment on Theresa Mays hair or her figure or her marriage the feminists would implode.

Wow!

Animal cruelty and inhumane actions all in one post

Stay classy :rolleyes:

gitzy16v · 28-01-2017 07:49PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Wow!

Animal cruelty and inhumane actions all in one post

Stay classy :rolleyes:

Stretching it a bit.

Timberrrrrrrr · 28-01-2017 07:52PM

gitzy16v wrote: »

Stretching it a bit.

Stretching what?

gitzy16v · 28-01-2017 07:53PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Stretching what?

The truth.

b_mac2 · 28-01-2017 07:55PM

gitzy16v wrote: »

The truth.

Er hat diese Gewohnheit.

Widdershins · 28-01-2017 07:55PM

Mary63 wrote: »

While on the subject of men, how come women can comment on Donald Trumps weight, his hair, his liking for spray tan, his marriage, his children and no one objects.If a man was to comment on Theresa Mays hair or her figure or her marriage the feminists would implode.

Totally agree on that. Body shaming is fine if you don't like the person and they're unpopular.... and male.

Except it is apparently fine to drop those wonky principles and go ahead and attack May because she's a Tory. From what I can tell.

Timberrrrrrrr · 28-01-2017 07:55PM

gitzy16v wrote: »

The truth.

Advocated animal cruelty (spraying lemon water in cats face) and inhumane actions (leave them afloat in the sea in unseaworthy vessels)

How is that stretching the truth?

Timberrrrrrrr · 28-01-2017 07:56PM

b_mac2 wrote: »

Er hat diese Gewohnheit.

:rolleyes:

Brian? · 28-01-2017 07:57PM

alastair wrote: »

That state of chaos allows an uncontrolled people smuggling operation to thrive. That's the reason they go there, and have done so since the state fell into chaos (long before any EU naval monitoring). The Spanish navy also bring rescued migrants to Spain, but there's a much smaller number attempting the crossing from Morocco, as there's greater policing of smuggling there.

We already know that. Drowning deaths have increased since the ending of the scaling back from the more comprehensive Mare Nostrum naval programme. Removing operation Triton would just exasperate an already terrible situation.

What he said.

Widdershins · 28-01-2017 07:58PM

Don't throw lemon juice or anything in it's face. I take it you're feeding it, because cats do not hang around where there's nothing to eat. So if you really don't want it around, don't leave out food. Although I would feed it, personally.

gitzy16v · 28-01-2017 08:03PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Advocated animal cruelty (spraying lemon water in cats face) and inhumane actions (leave them afloat in the sea in unseaworthy vessels)

How is that stretching the truth?

Wrong,she suggested something that works for getting rid of stray cats...didn't advocate it.

Mary also said..If they are rapists like in cologne leave them there,I mean most of the migrants that have committed serious crime,this is how they arrived.

gitzy16v · 28-01-2017 08:04PM

Anyway pedantics is all it was,looking for a shock reaction.
Carry on.

Timberrrrrrrr · 28-01-2017 08:05PM

gitzy16v wrote: »

Wrong,she suggested something that works for getting rid of stray cats...didn't advocate it.

Stretching it a bit

Mary also said..If they are rapists like in cologne leave them there,I mean most of the migrants that have committed serious crime,this is how they arrived.

How would you know they are rapists like the ones in Cologne? Interview them while at sea? :rolleyes:

gitzy16v · 28-01-2017 08:10PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Stretching it a bit

How would you know they are rapists like the ones in Cologne? Interview them while at sea? :rolleyes:

Like they are going to tell the truth anyway.
Stop the ferry service.
It won't be nice people will die,but in the long run less will be lives will be lost.

Stheno · 28-01-2017 08:12PM

gitzy16v wrote: »

Like they are going to tell the truth anyway.
Stop the ferry service.
It won't be nice people will die,but in the long run less will be lives will be lost.

How will less lives be lost in the long run?

And how many would you be ok with drowning?

Child refugees -majority to be males aged 17???

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