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Child refugees -majority to be males aged 17???

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Comments

  • #512
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    gitzy16v wrote: »
    The old saying prevention is better than cure springs to mind.

    It does? How exactly would you see that playing out?


  • #513
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,819 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    gitzy16v wrote: »
    The old saying prevention is better than cure springs to mind.

    Nothing like comparing people to diseases to give you the warm fuzzies, eh?

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #514
    gitzy16v
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭gitzy16v


    alastair wrote: »
    It does? How exactly would you see that playing out?

    I just think we would be better off preventing the kinds of stuff that happened in EUR from happening here.
    Not blindly heading down the same road and having a New year's cologne or Swedish concert sexual assaults here in Ireland.
    We have a chance to do it different,do it better.
    There are far more deserving of our charity than the Calais migrants,camps in Lebanon or Jordan for starters.


  • #515
    gitzy16v
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭gitzy16v


    Brian? wrote: »
    Nothing like comparing people to diseases to give you the warm fuzzies, eh?

    Have you a problem with my post...


  • #516
    Widdershins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    Brian? wrote: »
    Nothing like comparing people to diseases to give you the warm fuzzies, eh?

    When talking about preventing people like ISIS becoming an issue, how would you like them described? A gift to humanity? So nice of you to think of their feelings.


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  • #517
    enricoh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,333 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Brian? wrote: »
    Nothing like comparing people to diseases to give you the warm fuzzies, eh?

    Well poland, Hungary etc have decided that they can do without the warm fuzzy feeling that these migrants bring and have said they are taking none.
    Let's see how these countries get on with
    No go areas
    Grooming teenage girls
    Rapes and sexual assaults increasing
    Terror attacks etc etc
    Compared to Germany n Sweden who were falling over themselves to take them in. I wonder which countries we'll be hearing about in the news in years to come regarding the above.
    Yeah, your right Brian, it's too hard to call!


  • #518
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,819 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    gitzy16v wrote: »
    Have you a problem with my post...

    You compared people to a disease.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #519
    gitzy16v
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭gitzy16v


    Brian? wrote: »
    You compared people to a disease.

    No I didn't,I said the old saying prevention is better than cure came to mind.


  • #520
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    gitzy16v wrote: »
    I just think we would be better off preventing the kinds of stuff that happened in EUR from happening here.
    By doing what?
    gitzy16v wrote: »
    Not blindly heading down the same road and having a New year's cologne or Swedish concert sexual assaults here in Ireland.
    You do know that the Swedish concert gropers were mostly not asylum seekers, yeah?
    Over last weekend, more than 50 cases of sexual assault were reported across two Swedish festivals. At one – Bravalla – five women said they had been raped and another 12 reported sexual assault, while at the other – Putte i Parken – there were a further 35 reports of assault, the youngest from a girl aged 12. In a statement on the Värmland regional police’s website, the Putte i Parken assaults were attributed to “foreign young men”. “There is no doubt,” the statement said plainly, “about who takes these liberties”.

    Except it turned out that there was doubt. Within a few hours the statement had been taken down.

    The police later admitted that only two of the seven men or boys arrested for the Putte i Parken incidents were from HVB homes – residential homes for young people, often refugees without parents. There’s even less evidence to suggest the rapes at Bravalla were carried out by immigrants – but the two were instantly lumped together. “The wording was unfortunate,” read a second statement, “and we will take that to heart.”
    https://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2016/jul/06/swedish-festival-rapes-migrants-wrong-dangerous
    gitzy16v wrote: »
    We have a chance to do it different,do it better.
    There are far more deserving of our charity than the Calais migrants,camps in Lebanon or Jordan for starters.
    I'll take the word of the Children's Rights Alliance, and Barnardos, who support the measure. There's an awful lot of supposed concern for the refugee minors we aren't taking in all of a sudden, which combined with the 'they'll rape us all' rhetoric, smacks of talking out of both sides of your mouth.


  • #521
    gitzy16v
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭gitzy16v


    alastair wrote: »
    By doing what?


    You do know that the Swedish concert gropers were mostly not asylum seekers, yeah?


    https://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2016/jul/06/swedish-festival-rapes-migrants-wrong-dangerous


    I'll take the word of the Children's Rights Alliance, and Barnardos, who support the measure. There's an awful lot of supposed concern for the refugee minors we aren't taking in all of a sudden, which combined with the 'they'll rape us all' rhetoric, smacks of talking out of both sides of your mouth.

    You show me where I said "they'll rape us all"
    I'm on record saying I've no problem with the refugees coming into Ballaghdreen for example.
    It's the migrants in Calais I've the problem with.
    Genuine refugees are welcome,Calais fraudsters are not.


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  • #522
    gitzy16v
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭gitzy16v


    alastair wrote: »
    By doing what?


    You do know that the Swedish concert gropers were mostly not asylum seekers, yeah?


    https://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2016/jul/06/swedish-festival-rapes-migrants-wrong-dangerous


    I'll take the word of the Children's Rights Alliance, and Barnardos, who support the measure. There's an awful lot of supposed concern for the refugee minors we aren't taking in all of a sudden, which combined with the 'they'll rape us all' rhetoric, smacks of talking out of both sides of your mouth.

    Is that the same concert as the we are sthlm one?


  • #523
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    gitzy16v wrote: »
    You show me where I said "they'll rape us all"
    Never said you did, but it's clear that this is the scaremongering at play in this thread.

    gitzy16v wrote: »
    I'm on record saying I've no problem with the refugees coming into Ballaghdreen for example.
    Good for you. Glad to hear it.

    gitzy16v wrote: »
    It's the migrants in Calais I've the problem with.
    Genuine refugees are welcome,Calais fraudsters are not.

    Who suggested that the people in Calais were fraudsters? You're aware that 'genuine refugees' can only be determined after they have had their claim for asylum assessed. So each and every asylum seeker that come to this country is not 'genuine' until they are actually granted asylum or protection here. Plenty of those people at Calais have subsequently been given refugee status.


  • #524
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,819 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    gitzy16v wrote: »
    No I didn't,I said the old saying prevention is better than cure came to mind.

    And by doing so, your compared refugees to a disease. It's really that simple.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #525
    gitzy16v
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭gitzy16v


    alastair wrote: »
    Who suggested that the people in Calais were fraudsters? You're aware that 'genuine refugees' can only be determined after they have had their claim for asylum assessed. So each and every asylum seeker that come to this country is not 'genuine' until they are actually granted asylum or protection here. Plenty of those people at Calais have subsequently been given refugee status.

    Yes,I am aware...how about "genuine asylum seekers" instead.
    Ill take a wild guess that you knew exactly what I meant by genuine refugees.
    As for fraudsters in Calais heres the latest one
    http://extra.ie/news/real-life/married-calais-volunteer-cheated-husband-refugee
    He lied,said he was Syrain.
    You know quite well there are plenty more like that.


  • #526
    gitzy16v
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭gitzy16v


    Brian? wrote: »
    And by doing so, your compared refugees to a disease. It's really that simple.

    Maybe in your mind it is.


  • #527
    Mary63
    Closed Accounts Posts: 801 ✭✭✭Mary63


    The Australians have the right idea too.They have decided that illegal aliens just aren't getting in so no point in bringing boat loads of them to Australia.Not only are these immigrants not allowed into Australia but their details are taken and they will never be allowed into Australia not even as tourists in the future.

    I don't think Hungary or Australia have been hit by terrorist attacks, their Governments will do what has to be done to protect their people.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/asylum-seekers-face-lifetime-australia-ban-if-they-arrive-by-boat-1.2848529


  • #528
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    gitzy16v wrote: »
    Yes,I am aware...how about "genuine asylum seekers" instead.

    What evidence have you that the people at Calais are not "genuine asylum seekers" then?


  • #529
    gitzy16v
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭gitzy16v


    The fact they are in Calais in the first place.
    France is not a warzone the last time I checked.


  • #530
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,819 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Mary63 wrote: »
    The Australians have the right idea too.They have decided that illegal aliens just aren't getting in so no point in bringing boat loads of them to Australia.Not only are these immigrants not allowed into Australia but their details are taken and they will never be allowed into Australia not even as tourists in the future.

    I don't think Hungary or Australia have been hit by terrorist attacks, their Governments will do what has to be done to protect their people.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/asylum-seekers-face-lifetime-australia-ban-if-they-arrive-by-boat-1.2848529

    I thought we were engaging on the plight of women in Pakistan.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #531
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,178 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Mary63 wrote: »
    The Australians have the right idea too.They have decided that illegal aliens just aren't getting in so no point in bringing boat loads of them to Australia.Not only are these immigrants not allowed into Australia but their details are taken and they will never be allowed into Australia not even as tourists in the future.

    Is it illegal aliens, immigrants, asylum seekers or refugees that you have the problem with Mary?
    Or so you believe all countries should stay pure?


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  • #532
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,819 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Mary63 wrote: »
    The Australians have the right idea too.They have decided that illegal aliens just aren't getting in so no point in bringing boat loads of them to Australia.Not only are these immigrants not allowed into Australia but their details are taken and they will never be allowed into Australia not even as tourists in the future.

    I don't think Hungary or Australia have been hit by terrorist attacks, their Governments will do what has to be done to protect their people.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/asylum-seekers-face-lifetime-australia-ban-if-they-arrive-by-boat-1.2848529

    You do realise that refugees or asylum seekers are not illegal immigrants?They're being allowed legal access to a country.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #533
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    gitzy16v wrote: »
    The fact they are in Calais in the first place.
    France is not a warzone the last time I checked.

    Nor is Jordan - but you're happy to take in refugees from there? Not very consistent tbh.


  • #534
    jacksie66
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,988 ✭✭✭jacksie66


    This post has been deleted.


  • #535
    gitzy16v
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭gitzy16v


    alastair wrote: »
    Nor is Jordan - but you're happy to take in refugees from there? Not very consistent tbh.

    Dont be silly Jordan borders Syria,France quite simply doesn't.


  • #536
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    gitzy16v wrote: »
    Dont be silly Jordan borders Syria,France quite simply doesn't.

    I'm clear on the geography. Jordan isn't a warzone. Nor is France. So what exactly is your problem if it's nothing to do with warzones?
    Has it escaped your notice that Ireland doesn't share a border with any state that we accept asylum claims from?


  • #537
    gitzy16v
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭gitzy16v


    alastair wrote: »
    I'm clear on the geography. Jordan isn't a warzone. Nor is France. So what exactly is your problem if it's nothing to do with warzones?
    Has it escaped your notice that Ireland doesn't share a border with any state that we accept asylum claims from?

    Im clear on geography also.
    My problem is with young men causing trouble in Calais being prioritised over people in camps neighbouring the warzones.


  • #538
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    gitzy16v wrote: »
    Im clear on geography also.
    My problem is with young men causing trouble in Calais being prioritised over people in camps neighbouring the warzones.

    No - you said that their presence in Calais delegitimised their refugee status. What leads you to believe such a thing? I'm trying to tease out your logic.

    The minors in Calais coming to Ireland are not being prioritised over others - since we have committed to take greater numbers of refugees from other camps.


  • #539
    gitzy16v
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭gitzy16v


    alastair wrote: »
    No - you said that their presence in Calais delegitimised their refugee status. What leads you to believe such a thing? I'm trying to tease out your logic.

    The minors in Calais coming to Ireland are not being prioritised over others - since we have committed to take greater numbers of refugees from other camps.

    They travelled through plenty of safe countries on they're way to set up an illegal settlement,not claiming asylum in any of them,waiting to illegally enter the U.K.


  • #540
    Mary63
    Closed Accounts Posts: 801 ✭✭✭Mary63


    What are you getting at Alastair.Anyone in France is no longer fleeing from a war zone so they are not refugees.They are people in a safe country so thats where they should stay while the host country decides what to do with them.The host country grants them asylum or they deport them, why have you a problem understanding this.

    I still don't know why we have to take these Calais men no matter what age they are, why didn't Zappone say to France, its your problem and you should have dismantled that jungle five years ago.Why did herself and Frances Fitzgerald even go to France, have they not enough problems here to be sorting out.

    The good thing about Ireland though is the close proximity to the UK so hopefully these Calais people will just slip across the border and become the UKS problem.I really hope the contracts Zappone has signed to house, clothe, feed and educate these people can be cancelled if this happens.Zappone would be better off just buying them flights to the UK and get on with the important job she was elected to do, i.e. look after the interests of Irish children.


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  • #541
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    gitzy16v wrote: »
    They travelled through plenty of safe countries on they're way to set up an illegal settlement,not claiming asylum in any of them,waiting to illegally enter the U.K.

    They don't have any requirement to make their claim in a first safe country they travel through. They entered all the other countries illegally too - why the fixation with entering the UK illegally?


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