Bellator/WSOF/One FC etc events Thread

Lukker- · 22-01-2017 04:09PM

Mellor wrote: »

He was a division 1 wrestler, 2nd at some big comps, and trialled for the Olympic team. Wrestling is tough, and he would have routinely been in way way more compromising positions then.

He was subbed by Silva and Maia, but nothing about them looked soft imo. Haven't seen his early sub losses (Jeremy Horn, Sobral)

His wrestling credentials were never in doubt, he probably had the best double leg in MMA for a while but his sub defense is suspect. 9 of his 14 losses have been via submission. I don't think the fight was fixed but it wouldn't surprise me at all if Sonnen went into the fight ready to give his back if Ortiz ever managed to get full mount.

Swashbuckler · 22-01-2017 04:20PM

Lukker- wrote:

I don't think the fight was fixed but it wouldn't surprise me at all if Sonnen went into the fight ready to give his back if Ortiz ever managed to get full mount.

That's just as fixed than a prearranged result in fairness.

darced · 22-01-2017 04:31PM

This post has been deleted.

Mellor · 22-01-2017 04:35PM

Lukker- wrote: »

His wrestling credentials were never in doubt, he probably had the best double leg in MMA for a while but his sub defense is suspect. 9 of his 14 losses have been via submission. I don't think the fight was fixed but it wouldn't surprise me at all if Sonnen went into the fight ready to give his back if Ortiz ever managed to get full mount.

My point about the wrestling is that he'd feel more neck pressure during wrestling hold than that thing.
Most of those subs where a long time ago. Only 3 or 4 in the last decade. But let's say he has terrible sub defense, can't escape to save his life. That still requires Tito to actually lock up a submission before Chael is done for. The grip he had for the tap was really loose looking.

That_Guy · 23-01-2017 01:24AM

All caught up now... That build up to the choke was.... well, odd to say the least.

Chael could have beaten Tito no problem but just gave up his back like nobody's business.

Very very strange.

Mellor · 23-01-2017 02:22AM

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I'm not writing off the pressure a 230lb Tito generates. Chael said in the presser it was a choke not a crank when asked.

It's the hands that look really suspect to me. I know you can finish a gable.fist grip instead of a RNC, as in a short choke. I probably do that variation more. But that requires levering off the shoulder blade. Which I'm not sure he had off to the side like that. It looks very one sided to me.

https://cdn2.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/52861733/tito12.0.0.jpeg

I might give a pass to one of two of those details. But releasing the darce, the lack of defending, putting his head back into the choke, choking from the side, Bellator's track record. It's cumulatively a lot. But we'll never know.

ASOT · 23-01-2017 11:48AM

What i find stranger than the choe was chaels 50k disclosed pay.

Tazzimus · 23-01-2017 12:28PM

I've finished rnc's with one hand but not when my arm was across there jaw, that's just uncomfortable, nothing worth tapping over.

Very dodge finish

Awesomeness · 23-01-2017 01:38PM

If they fixed the fight it would make no sense to have chael lose though. Tito is retired now and they were looking to market chael.

Having him lose so easily detracts from his value

Gamebred · 23-01-2017 01:43PM

https://twitter.com/MrOldSchool22/status/823034589635604480

2 tap tito

Tazzimus · 23-01-2017 01:51PM

Gamebred wrote: »

https://twitter.com/MrOldSchool22/status/823034589635604480

2 tap tito

Tapo Ortiz

AlmightyCushion · 23-01-2017 01:55PM

Gamebred wrote: »

https://twitter.com/MrOldSchool22/status/823034589635604480

2 tap tito

If you watch the whole fight, you'll see he was rubbing his head with the same hand in the same sort of way before this. On it's own it kinda looks like maybe he's tapping. In the context of the whole fight, it doesn't.

Richy06 · 23-01-2017 03:09PM

That's not a tap by Tito. At all.

I've tapped to someone finishing an "RNC" across the jaw a few times. Gunnar Nelson has a mean choke or crank combo from there. It can be done.

MartyMcFly84 · 23-01-2017 03:24PM

Its an ideal to actually get the RNC under the chin on the neck. Anyone half decent will tuck their chin.

My coach was actually discussing this with some guys last week and said to be prepared to crank the face off someone as the pressure alone will likely result in a tap, and not necessarily look for the ideal under the chin (in a fight scenario) .

Mellor · 24-01-2017 02:00AM

ASOT wrote: »

What i find stranger than the choe was chaels 50k disclosed pay.

Was this a PPV?

Awesomeness wrote: »

If they fixed the fight it would make no sense to have chael lose though. Tito is retired now and they were looking to market chael.

Having him lose so easily detracts from his value

His value is his prefight drama. Not his fighting ability. Has always been like that.

There's a suggesting (I can't confirm) that with all Tito's "I'm not even going to look for the sub, I'm just gonna to beat down on him" talk in the build up. The Vegas price for Tito by Sub in Rd 1 rose to 50/1

Richy06 wrote: »

I've tapped to someone finishing an "RNC" across the jaw a few times. Gunnar Nelson has a mean choke or crank combo from there. It can be done.

Absolutely, tucking your chin isn't a defence. I've tapped in comp and I've done it to training partners who insisted it's iron clad.

Perfect example here:
Gunnar Nelson vrs Albery Tumenov

But I wasn't criticising Chaels tap because it wasn't on the chin. It was more Tito's hand position, and the way he was rotated around to the side.

Gamebred · 24-01-2017 02:05AM

My problem with the choke is chaels hands fighting it, or lack of fighting the choke I should say it was very laboured 2 minutes into a fight aswell, as Hardy says you'd have to questions where Sonnen's heart is now aged 40 off the juice.

Subcomandante Marcos · 24-01-2017 02:10AM

ASOT wrote: »

What i find stranger than the choe was chaels 50k disclosed pay.

Chael, Rory and Mitrione all have deals that are a small base pay and then they get multipliers based on gate and views (and they keep their personal sponsors which can be 100K+). Bendo and a few others probably on the same deals.

Mr. Manager · 24-01-2017 09:12AM

Mellor wrote: »

Was this a PPV?

Nope. Free to watch on Spike TV

Awesomeness · 24-01-2017 11:22AM

Mellor wrote: »

Was this a PPV?

His value is his prefight drama. Not his fighting ability. Has always been like that.

There's a suggesting (I can't confirm) that with all Tito's "I'm not even going to look for the sub, I'm just gonna to beat down on him" talk in the build up. The Vegas price for Tito by Sub in Rd 1 rose to 50/1

Not a PPV. Bellator have only tried one I think and it didnt go well.

I agree his selling point is the pre-fight drama but it only works if you are winning some fights too. If you are talking crap and getting subbed in the first round every time people will tune out quickly. It also makes bellator match making look a joke (which it is a lot of the time) if he loses and they still throw him their top guys.

I doubt it was a worked fight but I wouldn't rule it out. If it was I wouldn't be surprised if chael just decided to throw the fight. If Bellator had any collusion in it they are absolute idiots and I don't think they are that bad

Gamebred · 24-01-2017 06:00PM

So Chael is now 'competing' against Tonon on SUG, gets tapped out easily by Tito and takes on one of the top grapplers on the planet weeks later.

Gamebred · 24-01-2017 07:19PM

https://twitter.com/simonhead/status/823918573609451520

Another bum for Gallagher to beat on a 2 streak loss.

Subcomandante Marcos · 24-01-2017 07:52PM

Gonna be funny when they build this streak like they have MVP and then feed him to Straus or another high level fighter and he gets his soul taken on live TV.

Gamebred · 24-01-2017 08:06PM

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Gonna be funny when they build this streak like they have MVP and then feed him to Straus or another high level fighter and he gets his soul taken on live TV.

I genuinely hope MVP has his soul taken immediately, Gallagher is young and impressionable MVP should know better, taking the piss out Rousey was sad considering she would probably beat him and everyone hes ever fought.

Subcomandante Marcos · 24-01-2017 08:25PM

Gamebred wrote: »

I genuinely hope MVP has his soul taken immediately, Gallagher is young and impressionable MVP should know better, taking the piss out Rousey was sad considering she would probably beat him and everyone hes ever fought.

MVP vs Daly to headline a London show, please god let it happen. Daly will kill him.

Fromvert · 24-01-2017 08:32PM

Oh that would be magical. Daly would take his head off.

DrPhilG · 25-01-2017 12:36AM

Gamebred wrote: »

Another bum for Gallagher to beat on a 2 streak loss.

And 1-3 in his last 4 fights.

Embarrassing.

Mellor · 25-01-2017 12:38AM

Gamebred wrote: »

So Chael is now 'competing' against Tonon on SUG, gets tapped out easily by Tito and takes on one of the top grapplers on the planet weeks later.

Tonon's comments on twitter are brilliant, i hope the fight is as fun as the build up

Gamebred · 25-01-2017 12:58AM

Bellator have pulled sonnen from the match up, saved him really from more embarrassment.

Mellor · 25-01-2017 04:18AM

Gamebred wrote: »

Bellator have pulled sonnen from the match up, saved him really from more embarrassment.

Dumb decision by them. It in no way hurts their business.
Sonnen was absolutely going to subbed in under 2 mins, but he'd have nothing to be embarrassed about.

Mellor · 25-01-2017 04:29AM

I as really looking forward to more of this in the run up to the fight...

Garry's Twitter wrote:

Good news or bad news first?

The Bad news is Hector Lombard pulled out of our match at @SUG_Grappling
The Good news...
…Hector Lombard will be replaced in @SUG_Grappling with a guy that "almost" beat one of the greatest of all time
My match in @SUG_Grappling will be with a guy who "almost" held a UFC title
I'll be competing in @SUG_Grappling against a guy who "almost" had all his dreams realized in the Octagon
A guy who's about to "almost" get paralyzed in a cage at @SUG_Grappling against the real American Gangster, from dirty Jersey @Garry_Tonon
The guy who "almost" passed some steroid tests, I'll be submitting none other than Mr. Almost @ChaelSonnen at @SUG_Grappling Jan 29th

@Garry_Tonon wrote:

Ok guys I gotta go train, something that Captain Almost clearly knows nothing about. See y'all soon

@Garry_Tonon wrote:

For my match against Chael the Noguiera Bros will be in my corner. Little Nog will be feeding me carrots and big Nog will be petting my head

:pac::pac::pac::pac:

@Garry_Tonon wrote:

It's about time, I've been waiting for my steak for like an hour now, hard to find good help these days.

Bellator/WSOF/One FC etc events Thread

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